Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: lone_gunman on March 08, 2009, 09:59:48 AM
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I am in need of a new computer... who do you recommend?
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You do. As far as I know it's still cheaper to roll your own. Especially if you have at least some parts (optical drive, etc) you can scavenge from your old machine.
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Or if you're a bit hesitant on "rolling your own", you could try pcusa.com, where they give you a bunch of choices of compatible stuff to put a system together. Not much more expensive than making it yourself, but you should still go to a place like Tom's Hardware to doublecheck compatibility.
Else if you don't care that much about peak performance, really Dell is still one of the better bangs for the buck on pre-built systems.
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Build it yourself or get a Dell. Dells aren't bad machines once you remove the junk software. You can frequently get a new dell with monitor for not much more than it would cost to build it yourself (sometimes less).
Chris
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You do. As far as I know it's still cheaper to roll your own.
I fully agree. If you don't mind getting your hands 'dirty', then building is the way to go.
Of course if you really need customer support and a warranty for the PC as a whole (or don't feel up to building it), then most desktops these days are pretty good. Although the same old marketing BS an be found on so called 'gaming' rigs, with '512MB of super-slow DDR2 128bit VRAM WOW!
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I fully agree. If you don't mind getting your hands 'dirty', then building is the way to go.
Of course if you really need customer support and a warranty for the PC as a whole (or don't feel up to building it), then most desktops these days are pretty good. Although the same old marketing BS an be found on so called 'gaming' rigs, with '512MB of super-slow DDR2 128bit VRAM WOW!
512? My next build is probably going to end up with 6 gigs of DDR3 plus another 1 on the video card.
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Build it yourself or get a Dell. Dells aren't bad machines once you remove the junk software. You can frequently get a new dell with monitor for not much more than it would cost to build it yourself (sometimes less).
Chris
I've bought three machines (2 PC's, one laptop) through the Dell outlet in the last 2 years. All three are great machines and didn't come with an idiotic amount of software. Also got a laptop through Dell's normal side, and it didn't come with all that much crap. The only non-Dell in our house is an HP that was purchased at Circuit City, and it came with so much crap that I'm still deleting programs and games.
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Buy a Dell, delete the crapware.
Or go balls-out, and get an Alienware machine. =D
You can't really roll your own for dirt cheap anymore - retail PC prices have dropped that much. By the time you purchase and assemble the machine, then buy and install whatever licensed copy of OS you want, you're right there with Dell, sans warranty.
(Yeah, I know there's TigerDirect and other sellers of kits. I've assembled a couple, and you can ask Balog about the quality of what he received on his last kit build...)
I came to that conclusion a while ago, and about the only real savings I get is when I buy and refurbish corporate lease turn-ins, but that's a totally different animal - again, you're rolling up your sleeves, and still sans warranty.
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I am in need of a new computer... who do you recommend?
depends on what you want.
if you want a basic windows machine, it is hard to beat the price of a dell or one of the other online/phone sellers. and there is very little difference in quality between brands.
very little chance you can roll your own cheaper, unless you have some of the parts already.
beyond a basic machine, the question is a little different. gamers often end up rolling their own because they get what they actually want.
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How are AMD processors compared to Intel? Is Intel worth the extra money??
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Saw a Lenovo(they bought IBMs stuff awhile back)with 320 hd and 3 gig of ram at Fry's this am for $300. Hard to beat that unless you need something super for gaming.
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I'm a fan of refurbed boxes from Tiger Direct... Delete the extra crapware, and you're good.
Way I figure it, the refurbs get a little extra attention - some idjit buys it, can't figure out how to plug it in, takes it back, and then it gets scoped by a tech and repacked.
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Look for the coupons and daily deals at Techbargains: http://www.techbargains.com/
Last year, I picked up a nice HP desktop for $ 400 under list through one of the daily deals.
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If you are located anywhere near me, I'll roll one up per your specifications, and give you a discount simply for being an APS member. Near me being someplace in the Willamette Valley in Oregon. By the time you factor in any significant shipping, the price would not be as competitive.
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You can't really roll your own for dirt cheap anymore - retail PC prices have dropped that much. By the time you purchase and assemble the machine, then buy and install whatever licensed copy of OS you want, you're right there with Dell, sans warranty.
Yeah. The last time I built my own PC, it wasn't much cheaper than a low end Dell and that was after reusing the case, optical and flopy drives, monitor, etc. The only new parts were mobo, memory, video card, and hdd. It was more powerful than the equivalent priced Dell, but not by a huge amount.
Chris
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I am in need of a new computer... who do you recommend?
Same question as when people ask "What gun shud I git?" -- what's it for? Answers will vary depending on where it sits in the spectrum of rock solid work computer to bleeding edge blinkenlights gamer machine.
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I was really more interested in a general opinion of brands than any specific model. I was wanting to know how brands like Dell, HP, and Gateway stack up when compared to each other. I don't plan to build my own computer. I use the computer for internet mainly, but this includes downloading large x-ray studies from the hospital for viewing at home. For things like CT scans, these are very big files, and I have to scroll back and to between hundreds of large x ray images. I also use it for more casual use of the internet, as well as playing some games. It needs to be fast, have a big hard drive, lot of ram, and good video memory/card.
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Putting on my professional hat for a moment, if you are doing Nighthawk radiology, I am surprised your employer is not putting in a teleradiology workstation in your home. I assume you are going to have a suitably large professional quality LCD monitor.
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I was really more interested in a general opinion of brands than any specific model. I was wanting to know how brands like Dell, HP, and Gateway stack up when compared to each other. I don't plan to build my own computer. I use the computer for internet mainly, but this includes downloading large x-ray studies from the hospital for viewing at home. For things like CT scans, these are very big files, and I have to scroll back and to between hundreds of large x ray images. I also use it for more casual use of the internet, as well as playing some games. It needs to be fast, have a big hard drive, lot of ram, and good video memory/card.
I prefer IBM/Lenovo as a brand, but I've also had good results with Dell.
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if you are doing Nighthawk radiology, I am surprised your employer is not putting in a teleradiology workstation in your home
I am not doing Nighthawk, nor am I a radiologist. The radiologists get free computers from the hospital. I actually am the guy taking care of the patient, and need to be able to see the films, not just a report.
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I am not doing Nighthawk, nor am I a radiologist. The radiologists get free computers from the hospital. I actually am the guy taking care of the patient, and need to be able to see the films, not just a report.
In that case, since it sounds as if you will be doing your own independent review to guide your diagnostic and therapeutic decisions, make sure that your graphics/monitor arrangements at home are of sufficient quality as to enable you to make diagnostic interpretations of the imaging studies.
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I was really more interested in a general opinion of brands than any specific model. I was wanting to know how brands like Dell, HP, and Gateway stack up when compared to each other. I don't plan to build my own computer. I use the computer for internet mainly, but this includes downloading large x-ray studies from the hospital for viewing at home. For things like CT scans, these are very big files, and I have to scroll back and to between hundreds of large x ray images. I also use it for more casual use of the internet, as well as playing some games. It needs to be fast, have a big hard drive, lot of ram, and good video memory/card.
There is very little difference in quality between the major brands and even the lesser known ones.
Most of the major components are made by just a few manufacturers - motherboard, HDD, DVD, memory, etc. Power supplies are commodity items and for most applications the cheapest thing you can get is quite adequate. The case is mostly sheet metal and cosmetic concerns aside, does not make much difference either. Windows machines all come with basically the same software.
These days a typical basic machine comes with video in amazingly high resolutions. The monitor chosen can make a huge difference.
Get a large HDD. Get lots of RAM. I'd advise staying away from vista if you can, but these days it is getting expensive to do that.
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How are AMD processors compared to Intel? Is Intel worth the extra money??
I always go AMD. I think they have better cheap processors. When I built this machine I bought a 5400+ for about a hundred bucks. I always figure about a hundred bucks for the processor; it usually buys a decent one.
By the time you purchase and assemble the machine, then buy and install whatever licensed copy of OS you want, you're right there with Dell, sans warranty.
This is true, if you are buying an OS. Purchase an OS and the price advantage dissolves pretty quickly. I skip the microsoft tax, cause I run linux. I'm not about to spend more than I spent on my HDD on bad OS that I don't like. Lucky that I don't have to.
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I was really more interested in a general opinion of brands than any specific model. I was wanting to know how brands like Dell, HP, and Gateway stack up when compared to each other. I don't plan to build my own computer. I use the computer for internet mainly, but this includes downloading large x-ray studies from the hospital for viewing at home. For things like CT scans, these are very big files, and I have to scroll back and to between hundreds of large x ray images. I also use it for more casual use of the internet, as well as playing some games. It needs to be fast, have a big hard drive, lot of ram, and good video memory/card.
How much are you looking to spend? Some of the companies do better with their top or bottom end...
I tend to do a 1-10 rating system for deciding what machine to shop for. 10 is hardcore computing needs, 1 is grandma and her email/browsing off of dial up.
General Internet use is rated at a 1 (Buy the cheapest machine you can).
'Large X-ray studies' I'm not familiar with, but at a guess I'd rate it a 3, with a caveat of buying the biggest, highest quality monitor you can afford, and a compatible video card. Otherwise, I'd give it a 3-5, depending on just how screwed up the software for handling those images are.
'playing some games' - Would these be 'immersive' games like Bioshock, or 'casual' games like tetris? Tetris gets a 2, Bioshock an 8.
For you, I'd shop around for a 'mid-range' machine, probably starting around $800, but upgraded with a better monitor.
For example, I hit dell up for their 'small business'(often better deals than the home site) - No monitor, 3GB RAM, 2.33Ghz Quad Core2, $643.
Unless you want the extra expense of getting a 64Bit operating system, it's not worth the $70 to get another GB.
Hard Drive, Dell wants $280 to put a 1TB drive instead of the default 250GB. Personally, I'd just hit newegg up for a second HD if it turns out you need the space - they're offering a WD 2TB(!) for $300, but I'd probably just go for the Seagate 1.5TB for $130.
$360 for a 24" LCD monitor, newegg sells them for as low as $270, but you can get a Samsung for $300. Only reason I'd consider buying it from Dell would be so the monitor tags along for any warranties.
$300 for a NVidia Geforce 9800GT isn't worth it when you can buy a EVGA 512GB GT for $130, assuming the default 256MB ATI card doesn't do it for you.
Hmmm...
Case&Power Supply, $200 est (I like LianLi cases and Seasonic power supplies, those won't be under $200)
HD, $130 Seagate 1.5TB
CPU/Motherboard: $270 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.173021)
RAM: 4GB $50(plenty to chose from)
Video: $130 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130435)
Vista Home Premium: $100 - Can go 64 if you want.
Etc: $70(mouse,keyboard, DVD Burner, etc...)
I'd build a machine for $950, cheaper than a 'upgraded' dell at $1,223, but I can't compete with their cheap end.
If you're going to be a 'power' user, building your own still makes sense, but for basic machines, I'd buy from a company. Then get a good big monitor, varying from $300 for a 24"(1920x1200) to around a thouand for a 30"(2560x1600)
For getting the best deal, I'd get an idea of what I want, then keep an eye on the various stores, and wait a bit. Something will pop up.
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Gateway
Don't buy company is in bankruptcy.
I doubt you could even buy one.
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Buy a Dell, delete the crapware.
Or go balls-out, and get an Alienware machine. =D
You can't really roll your own for dirt cheap anymore - retail PC prices have dropped that much. By the time you purchase and assemble the machine, then buy and install whatever licensed copy of OS you want, you're right there with Dell, sans warranty.
(Yeah, I know there's TigerDirect and other sellers of kits. I've assembled a couple, and you can ask Balog about the quality of what he received on his last kit build...)
I came to that conclusion a while ago, and about the only real savings I get is when I buy and refurbish corporate lease turn-ins, but that's a totally different animal - again, you're rolling up your sleeves, and still sans warranty.
/Laughs cynically..... Who needs USB 2.0? ;/ The TD kits are ok; the main parts are wysiwyg but the little stuff (power supplies, cases, usfreakingb ports etc) are cut-corner. Unless you buy each part on sale over a period of time, or have a hook-up for certain parts (like a friend who works for intel who can hook you up with the newest processors at employee prices :angel: ) getting a Dell and nuking the crapware from orbit is the way to go. If you're willing to run *nix or have an old XP license you can transfer to the new box that's a big savings.
Refurb boxes are awesome tho. I would never buy a kit to build my own, but I'd snatch up a refurb box in a heartbeat. With corporate boxes you can usually just slap in a video card and call it good, and you can sometimes get off-lease machines from a place that did cgi or something that are very good graphics-wise.
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As long we're talking refurbs, keep your eyes peeled for HP xw4100 through xw4400 workstations.
I have had very good results with them. Very dependable, IMO.
Heck, an OLD xw4100 with a 3GHz P4 & 2GB RAM is just as fast as most new multi-core stuff...until you start doing multi-core-friendly tasks or need more than 2GB RAM.
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A year ago, my choice was a Gateway with a lot of ram memory. I have been very satisfied with the machine. Since Micron (MHC as I recall) purchased Gateway and I have owned a number of Micron machines, their overall quality seems to be UP. I don't buy Dell machines. Won't. I don't buy HP desktops although their overall rating has gone up considerably in the last couple of years. HP desktops used to last about 2-years max; quality has improved as I understand it. I choose HP for laptops as they have the highest product rating the last time I checked. The newer laptops are much updated from ones produced only a couple years ago.
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A year ago, my choice was a Gateway with a lot of ram memory. I have been very satisfied with the machine. Since Micron (MHC as I recall) purchased Gateway and I have owned a number of Micron machines, their overall quality seems to be UP. I don't buy Dell machines. Won't. I don't buy HP desktops although their overall rating has gone up considerably in the last couple of years. HP desktops used to last about 2-years max; quality has improved as I understand it. I choose HP for laptops as they have the highest product rating the last time I checked. The newer laptops are much updated from ones produced only a couple years ago.
I rather like my new HP laptop, a dv7-1240us - about $750 after rebate (which we're still waiting on, of course, so ATM we're out $900 for the computer), so it's not a bargain-basement machine but it's not their top-end job either. It DOES have plenty of crapware on it, which we're slowly dealing with, but it plays nice with the new wireless network, talks to the printer and the USB backup drive attached to the desktop machine over said network, and even plays my games well (none of which are anywhere NEAR bleeding-edge - we're talking about Tron 2.0 and Star Wars Battlefront 2 here).
64-bit WinVista Home Premium, AMD Turion RM-72 dual-core (2.1 GHz, runs plenty fast for our purposes), built-in wireless has been troublefree, integrated graphics chip is surprisingly good (again, I'm not demanding too much from it), 4GB RAM and a 320GB SATA drive, Lightscribe DVD burner (which I haven't played with yet, but it reads and burns regular discs like any other DVD burner). My only complaints, and they're tiny ones, are that the finish on the machine, including the touchpad (which has an integrated physical button to turn it off if you'd rather plug in a mouse! EVERYONE should be doing that!), is a shiny dark-brass which attracts fingerprints, and the keyboard markings are decidedly low-visibility and not backlit. Helps my touch-typing skills, I guess.
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I actually love my HP laptop also. It is one of their special games editions with a fair amount of RAM. I replaced a 1.5 year old Compaq (also a HP brand) that is a piece of crap. It has XP on it and I still use it to download photos from one of my digital cameras. My wife primarily uses it now. Lost WiFi on it at a motel and I said this is the last time I'm going to depend on this thing. Now I have seperate internet that I can pretty much get anywhere there is cell phone coverage with my laptop. Comes in handy at times when I travel and I don't have to depend on the slow motel wireless network speeds.
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Just finished modifying my Dell Vostro 220 so that I can work from home and do some free lance engineering design.
$645 out the door delivered (Price + sales tax + free shipping) for a new 3 GHz core 2 duo, 2 gigs of ram, 250 gig Sata, DVD/RW, built in gigabit, video and sound with vista home basic AND a 22 inch Ultrasharp flat panel DVI monitor...
4 gigs of DDR 2 PC6400 - $21 shipped from Frys
EVGA 9800 GTX+ Superclocked 512 Mb... $124 shipped from newegg
500W power supply - $35 shipped from Newegg
extra Molex to Sata adapter was $3 + shipping from Newegg
Took me 20 minutes to swap parts and fire it up... another 10 to install the video drivers and crap...
FWIW, it pegs the vista grading chart across the board at 5.9... (never seen a score higher than 5.9 on a vista machine)
Only crap thing I hate about the dell boxes is the inability to overclock the processor... Some folks have played extensively to reflash the bios with a hacked version to allow it... But I am not balsy enough yet...
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Best and best price are not compatible.
Although I'm a PC user, I think the best is a Mac.
For best price, it's hard to beat a Dell. I'm writing this on a 5yr. old Dell that hasn't missed a beat. My last Dell was running windows 3.1 if that tells you how long I keep them.
You'll never save money by building your own.
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Unless you're a gamer or running BOINC, overclocking is highly over-rated, and doesn't do the reliability and durability of the processor(s) much good. There are factory-overclocked Dell XPS systems out there, but they come with a warranty and have exceptional cooling capacity. If you're looking for more FPS in a video game, some video cards do allow overclocking using ATITool, etc. I've overclocked my Radeon HD card a few times using ATITool, but it produces prodigious amounts of heat even before I overclock it. I've since throttled it back to stock speed, and I could only imagine what a pair of bridged CrossFire Radeon cards would do.
Clean up the Vista garbage running in the background, turn off all the Vista eye-candy, and you'll gain more performance than overclocking the CPU a few Mhz would give you.
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Indeed, for most people overclocking isn't really needed. Now if you have multiple GPUs in Xfire or SLI at high resolutions, a 4GHz+ CPU is really what you want to keep them running at their peak potential.
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Rivatuner can be installed and used to monitor temps and play around with OCing of video card stuff... My 9800GTX + came with it's own software based OCing utility...
Sometime this week I'll get around to installing a 64 bit version of Vista so that I can actually use all of the RAM installed in the box...
Thus far it screams running Solidworks.