Trouble in Ukraine

[RocketMan]

Confirmed she was shot. Guess the big red cross makes a good target.

Word is she survived and is going to be okay.
Hopefully you can view the page.  NBC websites have stopped working for me using IE11.  They work okay with Firefox.  From what I have read, NBC apparently "improved" the functionality of their network station websites.

[KD5NRH]

You could put your eye out, kid!

How fast and accurate is he?  Think remote detonator for a Molotov.

[Balog]

http://instagram.com/p/kptza1t4FS/


Should be clickable now. Locally made Ukraine poster.

Also, map of Lenin statues torn down in the last 24 hours.

[RocketMan]

Just a little black 'x' there.  What was it supposed to be, Balog?

[Balog]

So...

Yanukovich offered to hold elections a month early, in exchange for Maidan disarming and identifying themselves. That was handily shot down, and an ultimatum has been issued that if Yanu doesn't leave office the protesters will start fighting back with weapons. I'm assuming the sub-text there is "old Soviet and WWII military arms on a wide scale" instead of the handful of guys with shotguns we've seen so far.

Yanukovich fled, but has not abdicated power.

[Balog]

Entry to Zhulyany airport is blocked! All cars are being inspected! Activists have a checklist of persons who cannot leave the country.

Protesters are setting up checkpoints on entrance to Kyiv airports and other exits from the city. Just few hour ago, the Berkut arrived, but people took away their IDs and shields and let them go. Now they are making checklists to ensure that the Party of Regions members are not fleeing the country. All passengers are getting their documents checked. All cars are checked, including their trunks. In Kyiv, a real hunt on titushky, Berkut and ruling MPs is underway. All law enforcement bosses have vacated the center of the city. The streets are empty.

“We all have reached the crucial moment. We have given politicians the chance to become future ministers, presidents, and they do not want to meet our sole condition: that the ex-convict [acting president] be displaced!” said the man from the stage.“Friends, I do not want to be verbose. I do not want to engage in the same silly talks that we’ve been hearing for two and a half months. I do not trust the difficult political processes which they describe. Seventy-seven people have been killed, and they negotiate!” he added.

“I beg you: Support this suggestion. I tell you from my sotnya, where my father is with me: if by 10 a.m. tomorrow you do not demand Yanukovych’s resignation, we will go in with weapons. This I swear,” said the captain.

[AZRedhawk44]

Entry to Zhulyany airport is blocked! All cars are being inspected! Activists have a checklist of persons who cannot leave the country.

Protesters are setting up checkpoints on entrance to Kyiv airports and other exits from the city. Just few hour ago, the Berkut arrived, but people took away their IDs and shields and let them go. Now they are making checklists to ensure that the Party of Regions members are not fleeing the country. All passengers are getting their documents checked. All cars are checked, including their trunks. In Kyiv, a real hunt on titushky, Berkut and ruling MPs is underway. All law enforcement bosses have vacated the center of the city. The streets are empty.

^^This is wrong.

If your enemy no longer wants to be part of your collective (such as country, state or city) then you let him go.  That door swings both ways.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they want em dead   its russia
that also cuts both ways

[Balog]

In settings other than Lord of the Rings leaving your enemies alive often does not work out well. "Yanukovich establishes government in exile in Russia, asks Putin to roll the tanks."

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

In settings other than Lord of the Rings leaving your enemies alive often does not work out well. "Yanukovich establishes government in exile in Russia, asks Putin to roll the tanks."

kill him and putin rolls in to restore order

[Balog]

kill him and putin rolls in to restore order

Jail him and Putin rolls in to restore order. Do anything other than become a Russian puppet state and Putin rolls in to restore order. About all they can do is maintain whatever legitimacy they can muster, nothing to be done to deter Putin.

I'd imagine they would jail him ala Tymoshenko.

[Balog]

Extended video of cops killing protesters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSvj8F_Br4M&app=desktop

[Boomhauer]

http://instagram.com/p/kptza1t4FS/


Should be clickable now. Locally made Ukraine poster.

Also, map of Lenin statues torn down in the last 24 hours.

It has been said several times on this board that the Ukranians hate the Soviets. If that is so, why are there even any Lenin statues in existance? One would think that all would have been torn down after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Balog]

The ethnic Russians that were settled in the Sobiet era riot if you try to take them down.

[Balog]

More protesters getting killed.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=934_1393021284

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSvj8F_Br4M

Watch the YouTube one starting at 12:00 or so. People keep trying to retrieve the wounded and getting shot down.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea I noticed that. Old trick and it still works

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[lupinus]

Word is she survived and is going to be okay.
Hopefully you can view the page.  NBC websites have stopped working for me using IE11.  They work okay with Firefox.  From what I have read, NBC apparently "improved" the functionality of their network station websites.

Another update posted to the Lutheran forum I visit-
http://blogs.wels.net/missions/2014/02/21/update-from-ukraine/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Interesting piece on the former prime minister released from prison comments are worth looking at
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_02_23/Some-5-000-people-gather-in-Kiev-to-protest-Timoshenko-s-return-to-politics-9484/

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

More background on the gas princess

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/23/yulia-tymoshenko-she-s-no-angel.html

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[roo_ster]

Parsing a NYT article on what occurred to cause the Ukraine's pm to step down. 

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/02/what-just-happened.html

When something big happens, it's useful to read articles carefully for details before a Narrative hardens.

The following article from the New York Times is a little hard to follow because it tries to tie together several Ukrainian threads with a lot of taunting of overthrown president Yanukovych for being a L-O-S-E-R. But it sure sounds like the key event in the Ukraine last week was the "seizing of an Interior Ministry armory in the western city of Lviv and the transportation of those weapons to the outskirts of Kiev, the capital."

Other interesting points about the effectiveness of large numbers of indifferently-trained men (not particularly effective) and the reliance on smaller numbers of those naturally inclined to violence. 

Revdisk:
The author makes some claims about the Balkans and who did the fighting there.  Does that correspond with what you learned after the fact?  (Most the killing done by gangs/groups already inclined to violence and the vast majority of those under arms declining to get closely engaged with the enemy.)

More background on the gas princess

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/23/yulia-tymoshenko-she-s-no-angel.html

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Was it here or someplace else that I read that in the Ukraine, the political climate is one of, "Your corruption bad, my corruption good."  FTR, Ukraine has Africa-levels of corruption.

[RevDisk]

Wednesday, the protestors seized an Interior Ministry armory and that night started moving weapons to Kiev.
Thursday, 80 protesters and an unknown number of riot police were killed.
Friday, the riot police that guarded Mr. Yanukovych left after he signed an agreement with a couple of opposition leaders. Said deal was dead as soon as the protestors learned of it. Individual protestor groups negotiated cease fire terms with individual police commanders. Most were willing to leave if granted safe passage. Mr. Yanukovych fled, and the protestors took the main govt buildings without incident.
Saturday, Mr. Yanukovych refused to step down or resign. Ms Tymoshenko declined consideration for leadership roles.
Monday, interrim govt issues arrest warrant to Mr. Yanukovych. Rumors are that he fled the country, or went to Sevastopol. It looks like border police stopped him from boarding a plane to Russia. Hardline police forces are also regrouping to Crimea. Pro-Russian militias are forming, motivated largely off Russian propaganda.

[BryanP]

This seems like an appropriate time and place to post this.  I stole the picture and modified someone else's comment from a a Michael Z. Williamson FB thread.

[tokugawa]

It is interesting to see how quickly every protester adopted helmet, gas mask, and goggles- there is a lesson there of some sort....

[KD5NRH]

It is interesting to see how quickly every protester adopted helmet, gas mask, and goggles- there is a lesson there of some sort....

Fashion trends catch on quick.

[RevDisk]

It is interesting to see how quickly every protester adopted helmet, gas mask, and goggles- there is a lesson there of some sort....

They were fighting urban riot police and interior ministry troops. Tear gas, rubber rounds, live rounds, grenades, fire and dystopian urban landscapes are their threat environment. Makes perfect sense.