Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: WLJ on September 05, 2023, 12:48:34 PM
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Uh....
Making me ill just thinking about it.
A Delta flight from Atlanta to Barcelona was forced to turn around after a passenger on board suffered a bout of diarrhea which 'ran all the way through the plane'.
Flight DL194 had already departed Georgia on schedule at 8:47 pm, Friday September 1, and was over Virginia when the pilots decided to abandon the journey.
In a text message sent to Air Traffic Control, the captain was succinct in explaining the problem: 'Divert to ATL — passenger diarrhea all over aircraft — biohazard.'
Air traffic control audio recordings also reveal one of the pilots confirming the situation over the radio.
'It's just a biohazard issue, we had a passenger who had diarrhea all the way through the airplane so they want us to come back to Atlanta.'
[barf] [barf] [barf] [barf] [barf] [barf]
'This is a biohazard issue': Delta flight from Atlanta to Barcelona is forced to turn back after passenger suffered horrific bout of diarrhea that pilot said affected 'all the way through the plane'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12477397/This-biohazard-issue-Delta-flight-Atlanta-Barcelona-forced-turn-passenger-suffered-horrific-bout-diarrhea-pilot-said-affected-way-plane.html
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So I am guessing there was a trail of leakage as the passenger ran to the aircraft toilet.
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I guess there are worse things that could happen on a flight, but that has to be in the top ten.
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So I am guessing there was a trail of leakage as the passenger ran to the aircraft toilet.
Certainly more likely than the super soaker scenario.
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Uh.... it was pretty shitty?
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Uh.... it was pretty shitty?
No running away from this one.
Brad
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As bad as I feel for the people exposed to it, I actually feel pretty bad for the person who had it. Imagine the embarrassment from the time of the incident to the plane landing. No place to hide on a plane and everyone staring at you, talking about you, and probably videoing you.
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As bad as I feel for the people exposed to it, I actually feel pretty bad for the person who had it. Imagine the embarrassment from the time of the incident to the plane landing. No place to hide on a plane and everyone staring at you, talking about you, and probably videoing you.
Gotta know when you can trust a fart.
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Two Air Canada passengers were recently kicked off their flight for not wanting to sit in puke contaminated seats. Sounds like a fun experience.
https://nypost.com/2023/09/05/air-canada-passengers-kicked-off-flight-after-complaining-about-vomit-covered-seats/ (https://nypost.com/2023/09/05/air-canada-passengers-kicked-off-flight-after-complaining-about-vomit-covered-seats/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/)
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Two Air Canada passengers were recently kicked off their flight for not wanting to sit in puke contaminated seats. Sounds like a fun experience.
https://nypost.com/2023/09/05/air-canada-passengers-kicked-off-flight-after-complaining-about-vomit-covered-seats/ (https://nypost.com/2023/09/05/air-canada-passengers-kicked-off-flight-after-complaining-about-vomit-covered-seats/)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/09/05/air-canada-vomit-seat/)
What was the flight crew and airline thinking? Anyone would say no.
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What was the flight crew and airline thinking? Anyone would say no.
That was exactly it. They weren't thinking.
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[barf]
Footage from Barcelona-bound Delta flight that was forced to return to Atlanta shows aftermath of passenger's horrific bout of diarrhea that caused 'biohazard issue'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12484665/Disgusting-footage-shows-huge-clean-operation-Delta-flight-forced-turn-Atlanta-ill-passenger-horrific-bout-diarrhea-caused-biohazard-issue-Video-shows-excrement-blood-aisle.html
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I knew there was a reason I drove 2600 miles over the last extended weekend and had a ball.
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I have 3 international flights coming up on the next 4 months (post divorce pledge to myself to travel more)
I hope this sh*t doesn't happen.
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Gotta know when you can trust a fart.
You can't tell. I had a bout of explosive diarrhea about a year ago, I don't know from what. Fortunately, in the house.
Understatement of the year: No aspect of it is pleasant.
I tell ya true, this kind of thing is not jokeworthy.
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Last June I got something. My guess is a roto or noro virus. A solid week of stomach pain, intestinal cramps, the most foul gas you could imagine, and bouts of diarrhea, hitting worst, oddly enough, at night. Never knew if I was going to release gas or something worse, and no way in hell would have ever had the courage to "trust a fart."
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I remember my poor daughter being about 5 and with this sad look on her face thinking I was going to yell at her and everything she destroyed. Said I thought it was just a stinker. Valuable dad life lesson time, never trust a fart. Pretty sure that was a 3am shower and change the bed episode.
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You can't tell. I had a bout of explosive diarrhea about a year ago, I don't know from what. Fortunately, in the house.
Understatement of the year: No aspect of it is pleasant.
I tell ya true, this kind of thing is not jokeworthy.
In my experience, it isn't that I couldn't tell, its that I didn't notice the signs. Might be hindsight. :lol:
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In my experience, it isn't that I couldn't tell, its that I didn't notice the signs. Might be hindsight. :lol:
Grrr snarl growl. Thought I'd miss that one, didja?
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You can't tell. I had a bout of explosive diarrhea about a year ago, I don't know from what. Fortunately, in the house.
Understatement of the year: No aspect of it is pleasant.
I tell ya true, this kind of thing is not jokeworthy.
I wasn't laughing.
Hard to laugh when you're [barf]
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"Might be hindsight. "
What a shitty thing to say... :rofl:
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I wasn't laughing.
Hard to laugh when you're [barf]
"Might be hindsight. "
What a shitty thing to say... :rofl:
You guys are getting too loose. <eyeroll>
Just wait till you get a case of triarrhea..
Me go now. Ooops. Sorry 'bout that. Rather, "I'm leaving now."
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This brings a whole new definition of "skidmark". :rofl: [barf]
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"Might be hindsight. "
What a shitty thing to say... :rofl:
Wipe that grin off your face.
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Wipe that grin off your face.
Oh poo to you.
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Oh poo to you.
Eeyore off base there.
(https://www.khwiki.com/images/thumb/1/12/Winnie_the_Pooh_KHIII.png/1200px-Winnie_the_Pooh_KHIII.png)
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(https://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/phpthumbnails/1/1234/1234_1_600.jpeg?auto=webp)
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Enter The Babylon Bee:
https://babylonbee.com/news/delta-planes-add-explosive-diarrhea-warning-lights
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/64fb5baebbec764fb5baebbec9.jpg)
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https://babylonbee.com/news/spirit-airlines-introduces-new-bargain-flight-where-they-just-launch-you-in-a-medieval-trebuchet
(which is still preferable to the aforementioned Delta flight)
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Well, they don't also call it "The Runs" for nothing.
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https://babylonbee.com/news/spirit-airlines-introduces-new-bargain-flight-where-they-just-launch-you-in-a-medieval-trebuchet
(which is still preferable to the aforementioned Delta flight)
Sounds almost like Ryan Air's plan a few years ago that would have eliminated seats entirely in favor of subway style straps and poles.
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Sounds almost like Ryan Air's plan a few years ago that would have eliminated seats entirely in favor of subway style straps and poles.
Given the seats on commercial flights these days that might not be such a bad things.
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I think Ryan's proposal was mainly a thought experiment, but I seem to recall that the FAA told them that under no circumstances would any plane so fitted out would be given clearance to land in US-controlled airspace.
Pretty sure several European nations told them the same thing.
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Speaking of straphangers on airplanes, having ridden the NYC subways for 4 (high school) years plus 2 (first job) years I can tell you that sudden stops are adventures.
Not so much when cheek-to-cheek crowded, since the mass of bodies acts as one inertial unit, but that still gets pretty gropey.
The real danger is when people still have room to walk around and may be between handholds. Almost tuck and roll time.
Terry, 230RN
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This is getting too nasty. I'm wiping and going home now. >:D
Woody :old:
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Maybe they had the fish for dinner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGR65CXaNA
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Just snooping around re subway straphangers, when this image popped up I got a good laugh:
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1f/64/7c/1f647c916a34d600a2aaed111e267bba--creative-fun.jpg)
A Jergen's Hand Lotion ad, so I don't have to credit the image.
I think Ryan's proposal was mainly a thought experiment, but I seem to recall that the FAA told them that under no circumstances would any plane so fitted out would be given clearance to land in US-controlled airspace.
Pretty sure several European nations told them the same thing.
Even in an emergency such a Delta's?
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Friend of mine works for here in DC, and most of his team is in Boston. He was going to fly out yesterday for a week in Boston. His flight was canceled, so he's having to fly today.
He's not crazy about that thought.
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Friend of mine works for here in DC, and most of his team is in Boston. He was going to fly out yesterday for a week in Boston. His flight was canceled, so he's having to fly today.
He's not crazy about that thought.
I think I would have chosen Amtrak.
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Well, I THINK he made it to Boston... finally.
He got to Reagan National yesterday around Noon for a 1:45 flight.
He texted me at 5 pm saying he was going out of his mind, his flight kept getting delayed because of bands of heavy weather moving through the North East.
At 7 pm he said they were FINALLY on the plane, but were pushing back to the terminal to take on more fuel because they were going to have to fly a non-direct route to get around some of the storms.
That's the last I heard from him. So, either he's on the same island as the Lost folks or he's finally gotten to Boston.
He and I did discuss Amtrak. He said if he has to go to Boston again he's going to glide the friendly rails. =D
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Is driving not an option? Be about the same trip time by the time he is done.
I guess there is a lot of public transit in those two cities. Not at all the same as if I were to go to Oklahoma. Probably a lot less parking also.
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You know, there are many things I'm willing to try at least once in life.
Driving in Boston metro is not one of them.
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Gotta know when you can trust a fart.
The older you get the bigger the gamble that becomes.
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The older you get the bigger the gamble that becomes.
Like throwing dice (Craps)
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Woman NAKED from waist down stuns fellow passengers as she waits in line for Spirit Airlines flight in Florida
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12573583/naked-woman-spirit-airlines-florida-video.html
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On my Flight from PVR to DFW, I could tell a few people had Montezuma's revenge with multiple trips to the head on a 180-minute flight. I was two rows from the bathroom, and I could hear a little grunting occasionally.
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You know what they say about airline food
Merry Christmas from Airbus Atlantic
More than 700 Airbus Atlantic staff fall ill with diarrhoea and vomiting after company's Christmas dinner
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12896221/airbus-atlantic-staff-ill-christmas-dinner.html
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I reiterate my food spoilage rule: "If in doubt, throw it out."
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I reiterate my food spoilage rule: "If in doubt, throw it out."
Or feed it to your employees >:D
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Woman NAKED from waist down stuns fellow passengers as she waits in line for Spirit Airlines flight in Florida
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12573583/naked-woman-spirit-airlines-florida-video.html
Spirit is a welfare airline so you’re gonna see some welfare *expletive deleted*it on it.
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How was your flight?
A little windy
A just about brand new 737-Max has it emergency exit door blow out at 16,000ft.
No one hurt thank goodness but I'm sure a change of underwear is in order for many.
Reportedly no was sitting in the seat next to it.
Alaska Airlines grounds 737 Max 9 planes after section blows out mid-air
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67899564
Alaska Airlines pilot frantically requests ATC help after plane window BLEW OUT over Portland
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12932631/Brand-new-Alaska-Airlines-Boeing-737-Max-suffers-mid-air-window-BLOW-causing-depressurization-ripped-childs-shirt-jet-returned-Portland-Airport-High-tech-jet-suffered-two-deadly-crashes.html
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/01/06/03/79681799-12932631-image-a-59_1704512518774.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/01/06/06/79683359-12932631-The_emergency_exit_doors_are_designed_to_open_inwardly_and_canno-a-2_1704523134199.jpg)
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I'm supposed to fly Alaska on a Max 9 to Orlando in a couple weeks. Hopefully this doesn't impact that trip.
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This is why I have my seatbelt fastened whenever I am in the seat. Being sucked out of the fuselage at 35,000 feet will ruin my day.
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This is why I have my seatbelt fastened whenever I am in the seat. Being sucked out of the fuselage at 35,000 feet will ruin my day.
Also good for the much more common occurrence of turbulence/air pockets.
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It's being reported that it wasn't an actual exit door blowout. It was a filler panel placed in an unused exit door cutout in the fuselage. Buyers of the 737 series aircraft apparently have options with regards to the placement of emergency exits depending on the seating arrangement in the aircraft.
Given that the aircraft was brand spanking new, it's looking like Boeing screwed the pooch again with its installation. That filler panel is unlikely to have been changed at all by Southwest Airlines.
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It's being reported that it wasn't an actual exit door blowout. It was a filler panel placed in an unused exit door cutout in the fuselage.
The media kept saying window but then I saw the size and shape and assumed it was emergency exit but now that you mention it it's a bit big for a for what you normally see for emergency exits. At least I didn't call it a window like the media. :P
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Listening to this as I post as it's rather interesting
"The mid cabin door plug departed the airplane"
NTSB update on mid-flight incident on Alaska Airlines flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eM9Yf5apLI
This occurred at 16k ft, imagine if this had happened at cruising attitude (30-35k) with passengers with seatbelts off and milling about the cabin
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They were lucky, still in a climb and everyone sitting with their belts on and Alaska Airlines maintenance people using the required amount and correct length of bolts to hold the seats in. ;)
bob
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Panel reportedly found in a back yard.
Also a cell phone in perfect condition with the charger cord still attached.
Critical piece of Alaska Airlines Boeing plane found in Portland school teacher's backyard
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/critical-piece-alaska-airlines-boeing-plane-found-portland-school-teachers-backyard
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United Airlines has discovered loose bolts during inspections of its 737 Max 9 aircrafts following the shocking mid-air Alaska Airlines door blowout on Friday, according to reports
United has already reportedly found loose bolts and other parts on plug doors on at least five of its planes, according to The Air Current. Chicago-based United has 79 of the grounded 737 Max 9 planes.
The airline told DailyMail.com on Monday: 'Since we began preliminary inspections on Saturday, we have found instances that appear to relate to installation issues in the door plug – for example, bolts that needed additional tightening. These findings will be remedied by our Tech Ops team to safely return the aircraft to service.' DailyMail.com has contacted Boeing for comment.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12940287/737max-united-alaska-airlines-faa-inspection.html
Should be fairly easy to traced back to who's job it was.
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I thought the doors could only open inward anyway... what kind of design would rely on bolt torque to keep the door from flying off?
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zahc (and others) this video will answer your design questions.
https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=0vMZFCc0rljTy68V
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According to some reports I've read, this particular plane has had pressure sensors sounding alarms several times, including the day before this particular flight. This is why Alaska Airlines had stipulated that this plane be restricted to "over land" flights only. Finding that plug may help clear up some questions.
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They found the door plug yesterday in a school teachers yard. Apparently his name was Bob.
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zahc (and others) this video will answer your design questions.
https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=0vMZFCc0rljTy68V
That actually seems like a pretty robust design, and a good way to have a plug in the hole while leaving the fuselage able to have an actual door option. I'm also reading that this door plug design is used on all the 737 NG planes, not just the Max's, which lends it some more reliability, if accurate.
I'm going to bet that the stop bolts weren't installed properly, and this is a human error issue not a design issue. And considering the age of the aircraft, I bet Alaska hadn't opened that plug for maintenence yet, so the human error was probably in Everett.
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That actually seems like a pretty robust design, and a good way to have a plug in the hole while leaving the fuselage able to have an actual door option. I'm also reading that this door plug design is used on all the 737 NG planes, not just the Max's, which lends it some more reliability, if accurate.
That's contrary to what I've read -- which is not surprising.
737 Max aircraft with larger seating capacity use that opening (and the one on the starboard side) as actual exit doors, not plugs. Some airlines that don't need the exit doors there nonetheless order their planes with the door, but deactivated. Those don't have a regular cabin-size window in the door, they have a smaller, round porthole. I believe the models that have deactivated doors also have "Door Open" sensors for those doors connected to warning lights in the cockpit.
Apparently the models with the plug don't have sensors on the plugs. If this plug had been working its way loose during previous flights, this would explain why the only warning the pilots had was a non=specific loss of pressure warning rather than a specific "Door Open" warning.
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The nuts to the bolts are supposed to be torqued properly and cottered pined in place in a way, as shown in the video, that there's no way it could have worked it's way loose if done right. Someone dropped the ball hard. Maybe forgot the cotter pins?
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Here's the Babylon Bee
Alaska Airlines Adds New 'Scenic View' Seat For $30 Upgrade Fee
https://babylonbee.com/news/alaska-adds-new-scenic-view-seat-for-30-upgrade-fee
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Here's the Babylon Bee
Alaska Airlines Adds New 'Scenic View' Seat For $30 Upgrade Fee
https://babylonbee.com/news/alaska-adds-new-scenic-view-seat-for-30-upgrade-fee
:rofl:
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That's contrary to what I've read -- which is not surprising.
737 Max aircraft with larger seating capacity use that opening (and the one on the starboard side) as actual exit doors, not plugs. Some airlines that don't need the exit doors there nonetheless order their planes with the door, but deactivated. Those don't have a regular cabin-size window in the door, they have a smaller, round porthole. I believe the models that have deactivated doors also have "Door Open" sensors for those doors connected to warning lights in the cockpit.
Apparently the models with the plug don't have sensors on the plugs. If this plug had been working its way loose during previous flights, this would explain why the only warning the pilots had was a non=specific loss of pressure warning rather than a specific "Door Open" warning.
Upon further reading (and an indepth video from 737 technical channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLfT5WJz-6s ) the mid cabin exists were added to the 737-900ER (the largest of the NG generation), and they are on the MAX8-200, MAX 9, and MAX 10. So significantly less than "all the 737 NG's" as I originally understood. Still there's a fair bit of them out there.
I will stand by my thought that it's a pretty robust plug closure system. The cabin pressure is pushing the plug into 12 seperate pads holding it in the aircraft. Someone really had to screw up to let that thing raise the 1.5" or so and slip off the stop pads.
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I'm betting they find there were no bolts installed, or if they were, the nuts weren't, or improperly so that they came off. Sounded like even having 1 of the 4 bolts properly installed would likely have prevented the incident.
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Slap on some blue loctite, torque them nuts and get those birds back on deck!
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Update from Juan Browne. (Juan is an American Airlines 777 pilot.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubCQZtLTAug
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I'm supposed to fly Alaska on a Max 9 to Orlando in a couple weeks. Hopefully this doesn't impact that trip.
Switched to Delta and A321neo for the flights.
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When a satire site is probably closer to the truth than most MSM
Boeing CEO Assures Nervous Fliers That All 737 Aircraft Are Built To The Highest Diversity Standards
https://babylonbee.com/news/boeing-ceo-assures-nervous-flyers-that-all-737-aircraft-are-built-to-the-highest-diversity-standards
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:facepalm:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NhOmS-MkgZ8
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When a satire site is probably closer to the truth than most MSM
Boeing CEO Assures Nervous Fliers That All 737 Aircraft Are Built To The Highest Diversity Standards
https://babylonbee.com/news/boeing-ceo-assures-nervous-flyers-that-all-737-aircraft-are-built-to-the-highest-diversity-standards
That was the Babylon Bee
But even the Bee can't top reality
FAA 'diversity' push to hire workers with 'severe intellectual' disabilities sparks concern, mockery
https://www.foxnews.com/us/faa-diversity-push-hire-workers-severe-intellectual-disabilities-sparks-concern-mockery
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is facing criticism and concern from both politicians and the public over a diversity hiring initiative that actively recruits workers with "severe intellectual" disabilities, "psychiatric" issues and other disabilities.
Fox News Digital reported Sunday that the FAA’s website details a "Diversity and Inclusion" hiring plan aimed to boost diversity, including those with "severe" disabilities, at the agency.
"Individuals with targeted or ‘severe’ disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce," the FAA’s site states before it details the "targeted disabilities" that the agency is actively working to recruit.
"Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring," the FAA’s website states. "They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism."
Severe intellectual disability is defined by the Cleveland Clinic as: "People with severe intellectual disability have an average mental age of between 3 and 6 years. They use single words, phrases and/or gestures to communicate. They benefit from daily care and support with activities and daily life."
I feel safe
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That was the Babylon Bee
But even the Bee can't top reality
FAA 'diversity' push to hire workers with 'severe intellectual' disabilities sparks concern, mockery
https://www.foxnews.com/us/faa-diversity-push-hire-workers-severe-intellectual-disabilities-sparks-concern-mockery
I feel safe
I'm so happy for you.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/4knqcw.png?a473424)
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No they didn't :rofl:
Delta Introduces New Short Plane For Special-Needs Pilots
https://babylonbee.com/news/delta-introduces-new-short-plane-for-special-needs-pilots
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/65a6ac15ba80c65a6ac15ba80d.jpg)
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I'll just leave this here.
https://notthebee.com/article/coming-soon-someone-made-a-video-showing-what-your-flights-will-look-like-in-our-very-progressive-future/ (https://notthebee.com/article/coming-soon-someone-made-a-video-showing-what-your-flights-will-look-like-in-our-very-progressive-future/)
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Brrrrains
JUST IN: ⚠️ US-bound ANA plane returns to Tokyo after ‘heavily drunk’ passenger bites crew member. -SCMP
An All Nippon Airways flight en route to the United States was forced to return to Tokyo when an inebriated passenger bit a flight attendant, as reported by the airline on… pic.twitter.com/YWz1E5aaOS
— Chuck Callesto (@ChuckCallesto) January 17, 2024
I've seen how this plays out before
The flight attendant is going to be showing symptoms and we all want her to be okay, but she's going to hunger for human flesh soon
— The Judgmental Dog (@the_addressor) January 17, 2024
World War Z Incoming: Flight From Japan to United States Forced to Return to Tokyo
https://twitchy.com/grateful-calvin/2024/01/19/world-war-z-incoming-flight-from-tokyo-to-pittsburgh-forced-to-return-to-japan-n2391896
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Boeing 747 cargo plane makes emergency landing shortly after takeoff at Miami airport
https://wsvn.com/news/local/miami-dade/boeing-747-cargo-plane-makes-emergency-landing-shortly-after-takeoff-at-miami-airport/
The aircraft landed safely Thursday night “after experiencing an engine malfunction soon after departure,” a spokesperson for Atlas Air said in a statement Friday. “The crew followed all standard procedures and safely returned to MIA.”
The airplane was “shooting sparks” as it flew overhead, said Melanie Adaros, who was out for a walk with her mother and was about to turn into her home, when she heard and saw an approaching plane.
Neat video. Probably just a bird strike, but every problem is a DEI problem now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffheDMfifhA&list=RDNSffheDMfifhA&start_radio=1
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Neat video. Probably just a bird strike, but every problem is a DEI problem now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffheDMfifhA&list=RDNSffheDMfifhA&start_radio=1
Do we know what kind of bird it was? There is systemic turbine aggression against Canda Gesse and ravens, so if it was one of them we'll need some money and capitulation from Pratt and Whitney.
If it was a swan, *expletive deleted*ck em.
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During our snow yesterday a small commuter plane tried to take off from Dulles airport for Lancaster, PA.
Two minutes later it landed on a local road...
https://wtop.com/national/2024/01/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-a-highway-northern-virginia-after-taking-off-from-dulles-airport/
Would have made it farther in a horse and buggy.
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7 New Features Coming To United Airlines Courtesy Of Drag Queen CEO
https://babylonbee.com/news/7-new-features-on-united-airlines-courtesy-of-drag-queen-ceo
5. No more free nuts: Too bad!
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Do we know what kind of bird it was? There is systemic turbine aggression against Canda Gesse and ravens, so if it was one of them we'll need some money and capitulation from Pratt and Whitney.
If it was a swan, *expletive deleted*ck em.
I don't even know if it was a bird. May have just been crappy maintenance.
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A lost flashlight caused $4 million in damage inside an F-35 engine
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/flashlight-f35-damage/?utm_term=Task%26Purpose_Today_01.20.24&utm_campaign=Task%20%26%20Purpose_TPToday_Actives_Dynamic&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email
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I don't even know if it was a bird. May have just been crappy maintenance.
I feel like you missed my DEI joke....
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I feel like you missed my DEI joke....
It was so good I missed it. =)
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NYC-bound flight canceled when passenger notices missing bolts on plane wing
https://twitchy.com/grateful-calvin/2024/01/23/virgin-atlantic-flight-missing-bolts-n2392060
:O
Maybe some of you know enough to know how serious this is.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEdO28dXEAA0yQC?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Too complicated to nutshell properly but apparently there's a QC paper trail disconnect between the fuselage manufacturer (Spirit) and Boeing when work is performed on these plugs.
And Alaska Air has found numerous loose bolts during AC inspections
Boeing's Quality Management Failure Explained 737-Max-9 Door 24 Jan 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhRYqvCAX_k
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During our snow yesterday a small commuter plane tried to take off from Dulles airport for Lancaster, PA.
Two minutes later it landed on a local road...
https://wtop.com/national/2024/01/plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-a-highway-northern-virginia-after-taking-off-from-dulles-airport/
Would have made it farther in a horse and buggy.
I think the crew did really well at dodging stoplights and the very large powerlines. Easy to go bad. Across from the Wendy's and Aldi, not the location your pint sized air traffic controller was hoping for.
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Stewardess Politely Asks Passengers To Raise Tray Tables Before Takeoff And Also Please Check If The Plane Has Both Wings
https://babylonbee.com/news/stewardess-politely-asks-passengers-to-raise-tray-tables-before-takeoff-and-also-please-check-if-the-plane-has-both-wings
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Update
The new report finds that four retaining bolts intended to prevent vertical movement of the door plug were missing, and suggests that Boeing workers failed to replace them after removing the plug for a repair during assembly.
The damage patterns observed in the door plug and airframe indicated that the four bolts were not in place at the time of the incident, allowing the plug to detach from the stop pads.
The records show that the involved fuselage arrived at Boeing's Renton, Washington plant for assembly on August 31, 2023.
On September 1, 2023, a work order was created noting five damaged rivets just forward of the door plug.
Records and photos show that, to repair the damaged rivets, the door plug had to be removed, which involved removing the two vertical movement arrestor bolts and two upper guide track bolts.
After the work was complete, the door was replaced by Boeing workers, who appear to have failed to replace the four crucial bolts.
A photo following the repair shows three of the bolts missing, according to the report. The fourth bolt location cannot be seen in the photo.
Four bolts appear to be missing from the door plug that blew out of a Boeing 737 MAX during an Alaska Airlines flight last month, investigators said on Tuesday.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13053051/Boeing-bolts-missing-max-NTSB-investigation.html
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Update
Four bolts appear to be missing from the door plug that blew out of a Boeing 737 MAX during an Alaska Airlines flight last month, investigators said on Tuesday.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13053051/Boeing-bolts-missing-max-NTSB-investigation.html
See post #91. What the earlier article tried to explain is that in Boeing-speak there's a difference between "open" and "remove." Those door "plugs" are actually doors that don't have the interior latching hardware and are semi-permanently bolted (sometimes, unless they're not) in place. The "plugs" have hinges at the bottom, allowing the plugs/doors to flop open. The four retaining bolts have to be removed to either open the plug/door (allow it to flop down and hang against the fuselage) or remove it entirely.
Apparently, the plugs are installed at Spirit but are then opened or removed once the fuselage is at Boeing for additional work. Boeing's procedural manual for removing the plugs calls for replacing the four retaining bolts when reinstalling the plugs. The procedure for simply "closing" a plug that was "opened" (but not "removed") did NOT mention replacing the four retaining bolts.
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See post #91. What the earlier article tried to explain is that in Boeing-speak there's a difference between "open" and "remove." Those door "plugs" are actually doors that don't have the interior latching hardware and are semi-permanently bolted (sometimes, unless they're not) in place. The "plugs" have hinges at the bottom, allowing the plugs/doors to flop open. The four retaining bolts have to be removed to either open the plug/door (allow it to flop down and hang against the fuselage) or remove it entirely.
Apparently, the plugs are installed at Spirit but are then opened or removed once the fuselage is at Boeing for additional work. Boeing's procedural manual for removing the plugs calls for replacing the four retaining bolts when reinstalling the plugs. The procedure for simply "closing" a plug that was "opened" (but not "removed") did NOT mention replacing the four retaining bolts.
As a Maintenance Supervisor and a Maritime Safety Inspector for the Army, believe me when I say I understand the importance of complete and well laid out technical manuals and procedures. The ability to check back on the written procedures, even on things you've done many times, is vital to correct and safe maintenance.
That said: If you are too retarded to realize you need to replace the bolts that you took out when opened the plug door, you may just be too retarded to work on aircraft at all. Boeing may want to take a hard look at their workforce.
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As a Maintenance Supervisor and a Maritime Safety Inspector for the Army, believe me when I say I understand the importance of complete and well laid out technical manuals and procedures. The ability to check back on the written procedures, even on things you've done many times, is vital to correct and safe maintenance.
That said: If you are too retarded to realize you need to replace the bolts that you took out when opened the plug door, you may just be too retarded to work on aircraft at all. Boeing may want to take a hard look at their workforce.
And their management.
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I do not now nor have I ever worked in aerospace, but I know enough to know that technical manuals are the All Important Document Of The Universe. Technicians are expected to follow manuals in their full, complete, and utter entirety. If the manual says nothing about reinstalling a bolt, you don't reinstall it. No more, no less. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Yes, they should be mentioning glaringly obvious issues to Upper Management, but it's not within their power or authority to do anything more or less than exactly what the manual specifies. It doesn't help that they're constantly berated to "follow the manual" regardless of their opinion lest they, their family, and multiple generations of heirs be burned at the stake for heresy. Most of the time it ensures someone doesn't do something stupid like installing lines backwards. Unfortunately, it can also bite you in the ass if something slips past the vetting process (or gets ramrodded through due to incompetence, carelessness, or management buffoonery).
Brad
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^^
That is untrue, at least in the DOD. The manual gives you procedures and safety warnings, but you are also expected to know the overall best practices. If the TM is wrong, you are to question it, on the spot, with your superiors, and submit a form to correct it with the publishing agency. The form is in the back of every TM, and online.
And from a more pragmatic and less union/lawsuit reactive POV I stand by my statement: If you are too retarded to put the bolts back in that you removed to open the door, you are too retarded to work on aircraft.
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^^
That is untrue, at least in the DOD. The manual gives you procedures and safety warnings, but you are also expected to know the overall best practices. If the TM is wrong, you are to question it, on the spot, with your superiors, and submit a form to correct it with the publishing agency. The form is in the back of every TM, and online.
The group I learned from are retirees from the same private sector contractor. It's entirely possible their info is either out of date or isolated to a particular organization, department, or management structure.
Brad
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That said: If you are too retarded to realize you need to replace the bolts that you took out when opened the plug door, you may just be too retarded to work on aircraft at all. Boeing may want to take a hard look at their workforce.
The problem is that the person/people who removed/opened the door/plug probably weren't the people who replaced/closed it. Boeing works multiple shifts. If the thing was opened up by the first shift, the necessary repair work done by the second shift, and the closure performed by the third shift -- the person/people putting the thing back in wouldn't necessarily know what was involved in removing/opening it. This is almost certainly why the operation manual for "replacing" the door/plug covers installing the four retainer bolts. The mystery is why the SOP for "closing" the door/plug omitted that critical step.
Sadly, the only difference between "open" and "remove" is that when the door/plug is "opened" it is left hanging from the bottom hinges, whereas when it is "removed" it's taken off the hinges and set aside. Other than that, it's the same operation.
Even more sad: those four bolts are probably grade 25 Unobtanium bolts with a unique Boeing part number and specifation, and subject to multiple inspections and certifications. A cadmium plated grade 5 nut and bolt from Ace Hardware could have prevented this from happening.
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A question:
What is (normally) done with fasteners, such as nuts & bolts, when they're removed? Are they all tossed into a coffee can, do they have specific containers for each nut/bolt, or ????
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Do they typically have to check off and sign/initial procedure steps as operations are done?
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Do they typically have to check off and sign/initial procedure steps as operations are done?
Not sure, but probably. Which is why the fact that the "Replace four locking bolts" step NOT being in the procedure for closing the door/plug is so important.
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The concentration on the step that may have been missing from the "close" procedure does not explain the multiple aircraft over multiple airlines that have discovered these bolts loose in inspections since this accident.
They knew enough to install the bolts, but not the cutter pins?
There's also the fact that when you pull the door closed and down, there's big ass holes in the hinge and the roller track, at eye level.
And the fact that the damn thing is spring loaded. How many spring loaded items are there on an aircraft that don't have a latch, bolt, toggle or something to secure them? Zero.
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The concentration on the step that may have been missing from the "close" procedure does not explain the multiple aircraft over multiple airlines that have discovered these bolts loose in inspections since this accident.
They knew enough to install the bolts, but not the cutter pins?
There's also the fact that when you pull the door closed and down, there's big ass holes in the hinge and the roller track, at eye level.
And the fact that the damn thing is spring loaded. How many spring loaded items are there on an aircraft that don't have a latch, bolt, toggle or something to secure them? Zero.
Cotter pins are notoriously installed incorrectly. Apparently that's a skill few machinists at Boeing are able to master. dogmush's commentary on the IQ range of the machinists comes to mind.
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The concentration on the step that may have been missing from the "close" procedure does not explain the multiple aircraft over multiple airlines that have discovered these bolts loose in inspections since this accident.
They knew enough to install the bolts, but not the cutter pins?
There's also the fact that when you pull the door closed and down, there's big ass holes in the hinge and the roller track, at eye level.
And the fact that the damn thing is spring loaded. How many spring loaded items are there on an aircraft that don't have a latch, bolt, toggle or something to secure them? Zero.
I'm not making excuses for Boeing. The incident was a cluster__, and the subsequent discovery of other aircraft with bolts loose isn't encouraging. BUT ... from what I've seen watching videos and reading articles by aircraft industry experts, the bolts found loose in other aircraft weren't those four retaining bolts, they were other bolts in or near the door/plug opening.
The question I haven't seen answered is whether the four retaining bolts on the incident aircraft were installed by Spirit and subsequently removed at Boeing when the door/plug was removed (sorry -- "opened") to repair something unrelated, or if they were missed when Spirit built the fuselage. As to the other aircraft -- the loose bolts I've seen pointed out weren't related to holding the door/plug in place so, if they were loose, they were probably loose when the fuselages came from Spirit, and the crews at Boeing would have had no reason or need to tinker with them.
If I understand it correctly, Spirit was originally part of Boeing and was spun off into a separate entity some years ago. It leaves me wondering how much or how little control Boeing has over their former division.
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I've seen reports that the plug door retaining bolts, specifically, were loose on other aircraft.
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I've seen reports that the plug door retaining bolts, specifically, were loose on other aircraft.
If that's the case, what does "loose" mean and does it matter?
Those four bolts are simple blocks to prevent the door/plug from moving up. As long as they are in place, the piece can't move. It's not like those bolts need to be torqued to any particular spec, or even torqued at all. If the nuts are run on finger-tight and the cotter pin is installed, the nut can't come off, the bolt can't fall out of the hole, and the door/plug can't move.
So does "loose" mean "not tight," or does "loose" mean the cotter pin wasn't present and the nuts were backing off the bolts?
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If that's the case, what does "loose" mean and does it matter?
Those four bolts are simple blocks to prevent the door/plug from moving up. As long as they are in place, the piece can't move. It's not like those bolts need to be torqued to any particular spec, or even torqued at all. If the nuts are run on finger-tight and the cotter pin is installed, the nut can't come off, the bolt can't fall out of the hole, and the door/plug can't move.
So does "loose" mean "not tight," or does "loose" mean the cotter pin wasn't present and the nuts were backing off the bolts?
That is not a true statement. Cotter retained nuts still have a torque spec, because you can't have the nut rattling around and vibrating against the cotter pin. That will damage, and eventually cut the cotter pin and allow the nut to back off. "Loose" means not tightened to spec, with or without a cotter pin.
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And now undertorqued bolts in a different subsystem.
https://thehill.com/regulation/transportation/4458220-faa-says-737-max-operator-discovered-loose-bolts-in-rudder-control-system-on-plane/amp/
I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'll look at, and avoid, 737's when buying tickets.
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I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'll look at, and avoid, 737's when buying tickets.
An earlier article cited a retired senior executive from Boeing who flat-out stated that he won't fly on a 737.
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One can really see the quality of union labor in effect here.
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One can really see the quality of union labor in effect here.
More likely, it was a failure of "quality control" and those jobs are usually some (lower) level of "management".
Having been a "QC" technician for most of my career, I have frequently seen how management cuts corners to get product "out the door".
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Maggots
Yeah maggots
An hour into a Delta flight from Amsterdam to Detroit, the plane had to turn around after maggots reportedly fell from an overhead cabin onto economy passengers.
Delta Flight DL133 returned to Schiphol Tuesday "after a suitcase containing rotten fish in the overhead bin broke open and maggots began to fall on the unsuspecting passengers," the Daily Mail reported.
Once the airplane landed, passengers exited, the cabin was cleaned and the suitcase involved was put in a bag to be burned.
Had to smell during check in
Delta flight from Amsterdam to Detroit turned around after maggots fall on passengers: report
https://www.foxbusiness.com/fox-news-travel/delta-flight-amsterdam-detroit-turned-maggots-fall-passengers-report
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Don't they usually keep rotten fish in cans?
What the hell is rotten fish doing in a suitcase? What else is in the suitcase (besides maggots)?
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Couple file a $1B, yes that's a B, lawsuit over the door blowout saying even the sounds of planes flying overhead trigger flashbacks.
Two months on, Rinker says he now finds himself triggered by sounds of planes flying above and wants to claim punitive damages for systemic risks.
'There has been a crazy onslaught of information. Of course, we wanted to learn about ... it was just a lot of stuff. Where we live, we hear a lot of plane sounds and jet sounds, so that kind of triggers hearing that sound again. And no, we have not been on a plane since. I'm not sure when that will happen again.'
Portland couple aboard Alaska flight sue airline and Boeing for $1 BILLION after door blew off plane midflight - as they say they think about near-death experience 'almost daily' and are 'triggered' by noises from flights that fly over their home
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13150511/Portland-couple-aboard-Alaska-flight-suing-airline-BILLION-door-blew-off.html
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Based just on look alone, I'm betting he's a "Bernie Sanders should be president because then everything would be free" minion.
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Based just on look alone, I'm betting he's a "Bernie Sanders should be president because then everything would be free" minion.
Someone should fly plane trailing a Trump banner around their house for a couple of hours. >:D
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Someone should fly plane trailing a Trump banner around their house for a couple of hours. >:D
Yeah -- a 737 Max 9, with the banner trailing out of the door plug opening.
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"Triggered". ;/
Someone should sue THEM for a billion dollars for using that stupid word. What a weak society we're becoming.
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Remember that Pakistani flight back in 2020 that was coming in too hot with the landing gear retracted hitting the runway scraping along the runway on it's engines that then got back into the air and on the go around the damage to to the engines finally caused the engines to fail causing the plane to crash into a residential area?
Well the final report came and holy cow what a CLUSTER __ in the cockpit. :facepalm:
One that stood out to me was the pilot hitting thrust reversal 7ft ft off the runway with the gear retracted!
They had the gear down at one point during the approach but for some unknown reason retracted them with both the Cap and Co completely ignoring all warnings in the cockpit.
This video is long and very detailed.
Pakistan International Airlines #8303 Shocking Final Report!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBxjK70yt0&t=669s
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Hearing the attitude of both the Cap and Co and their history of hot dogging I'm reminded of this line from Top Gun
"Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash!"
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Remember that Pakistani flight back in 2020 that was coming in too hot with the landing gear retracted hitting the runway scraping along the runway on it's engines that then got back into the air and on the go around the damage to to the engines finally caused the engines to fail causing the plane to crash into a residential area?
Well the final report came and holy cow what a CLUSTER __ in the cockpit. :facepalm:
One that stood out to me was the pilot hitting thrust reversal 7ft ft off the runway with the gear retracted!
They had the gear down at one point during the approach but for some unknown reason retracted them with both the Cap and Co completely ignoring all warnings in the cockpit.
This video is long and very detailed.
Pakistan International Airlines #8303 Shocking Final Report!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBxjK70yt0&t=669s
Third world denizens doing third world *expletive deleted*it…
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Tire Falls Off United Boeing Flight During Takeoff, Damages Multiple Cars
https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-tire-falls-off-united-boeing-flight-during-takeoff-damages-multiple-cars
Twitter video embedded with the article.
https://twitter.com/gregg_re/status/1765860893710057532?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1765860893710057532%7Ctwgr%5Efac99aa5400023731a344ae7d1cf558b65bef7a5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2Fwatch-tire-falls-off-united-boeing-flight-during-takeoff-damages-multiple-cars
Seems like this ought to be a minor issue, but the tire could have killed somebody and only damaged some cars. The Twitter link has replies showing the car damage.
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More landing gear fun
Article isn't clear on if the gear collapsed first causing the plane to veered off the runway or the plane veered off the runway then the gear collapsed
United Boeing 737 Max veers OFF the runway into the grass 'after gear collapse' at Houston airport: FAA launches new probe after litany of safety issues
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13174293/United-Boeing-737-Max-Houston-runway-grass.html
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Has anyone seen tracking of these events over time? Just curious if it is getting progressively worse.
I have heard some commenters talk about a competency crisis in some of these key industries.
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While I no longer have much respect for Boeing, I believe they are unjustly getting a bad rap for some of these recent problems. Many of the problems sound more like maintenance issues where people are doing stupid things like not following checklists and procedures.
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Has anyone seen tracking of these events over time? Just curious if it is getting progressively worse.
I have heard some commenters talk about a competency crisis in some of these key industries.
I can say that here in Boeing country, the local media covers these stories in detail. The local FB and Reddit pages are full of Boeing employees pointing out the difference between manufacturing issues while the plane is at the factory, and maintenance issues once the plane leaves the factory.
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I can say that here in Boeing country, the local media covers these stories in detail. The local FB and Reddit pages are full of Boeing employees pointing out the difference between manufacturing issues while the plane is at the factory, and maintenance issues once the plane leaves the factory.
And that should be pointed out by every news outlet that carries a story about a failure. Manufacturing defects are one thing, lack of proper PM is a totally different thing - with different responsible parties.
A tire coming off could be one or the other; a defect factory installed bolt vs. someone forgot to tighten the lug nuts.
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Testified about safely issues at Boeing then found dead in his truck. They say apparently by suicide
Cue the [tinfoil]
Boeing whistleblower John Barnett found dead days after testifying against company
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-found-dead-days-testifying-against-company
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I made sure to book my next work flight in April on American via Airbus
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I made sure to book my next work flight in April on American via Airbus
I think at this point I'd just stay away from United and call it good. The majority of problems in the last three weeks have been on United flights, and that points to problems with their maintenance culture, not Boeing aircraft specifically.
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Boeing Proudly Announces It Has Fixed Malfunctioning Whistleblower
https://babylonbee.com/news/boeing-proudly-announces-it-has-fixed-malfunctioning-whistleblower
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Terrorists Decide Against Hijacking Plane After Realizing It's A Boeing
https://babylonbee.com/news/terrorists-decide-against-hijacking-plane-after-realizing-its-a-boeing
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I think at this point I'd just stay away from United and call it good. The majority of problems in the last three weeks have been on United flights, and that points to problems with their maintenance culture, not Boeing aircraft specifically.
I normally fly American anyway due to the fact that their flight availability out of Charlotte works great for my needs. I could also fly them out of GSP which is close to my house but the connecting flights are seldom ideal compared to just driving up to Charlotte which usually nets me a nonstop.
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My nephew is a pilot for Envoy, American's regional, and he occasionally flies into Charlotte.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GI2O0vAbcAA3TVM?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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Boeing is officially in everyone's crosshairs:
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/explaining-boeing-breaking-the-airline-industry-19024924.php
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Interview with a Boeing "insider" on DEI and its affect on morale and efficiency. Take it for what you will.
https://twitchy.com/grateful-calvin/2024/04/05/death-by-dei-christopher-rufo-talks-to-boeing-insider-and-whoa-nelly-it-is-bad-n2394772
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On a max to Vegas this morning [tinfoil]
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On a max to Vegas this morning [tinfoil]
What model carry-on parachute did you go with? =D
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On a max to Vegas this morning [tinfoil]
Boeing has a new corporate slogan of hope...
"When one door closes, another one opens."
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Boeing has a new corporate slogan of hope...
"When one door closes, another one opens."
Maybe another could be "when one bolt is tightened, another bolt loosens"?
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What model carry-on parachute did you go with? =D
Thankfully didn't need it.
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An interesting article in today's (4/8/2024) Seattle Times about what Boeing can do to recover.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeings-long-fall-and-how-it-might-recover/#comments
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Does it espouse the Boeing employees seizing the means of production from their fat cat overlords?
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The article did emphasize Boeing should stop treating its workforce and suppliers as enemies in order to increase share price.
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The article did emphasize Boeing should stop treating its workforce and suppliers as enemies in order to increase share price.
No thanks. Sounds to me like a lot of commie gobbledygook
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No thanks. Sounds to me like a lot of commie gobbledygook
You must not be familiar with the management style of Jack Welch.
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You must not be familiar with the management style of Jack Welch.
Neutron Jack.
Thankfully my time at GE wasn't very long. They were still dumping the bottom 10% each year though they ended that practice not long after I left. It was a very destructive policy. I can work to clear out deadwood for the first few years. But after that you start having to cut people that aren't THAT bad. And then decent employees refuse to do anything that might help someone else avoid the cut, because otherwise they're more likely to be cut themselves.
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Neutron Jack.
a.k.a. Black Jack.
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Neutron Jack.
Thankfully my time at GE wasn't very long. They were still dumping the bottom 10% each year though they ended that practice not long after I left. It was a very destructive policy. I can work to clear out deadwood for the first few years. But after that you start having to cut people that aren't THAT bad. And then decent employees refuse to do anything that might help someone else avoid the cut, because otherwise they're more likely to be cut themselves.
I knew a guy who worked for Exxon. He said they did a form of that. Seemed a bit odd to me. A competent manager who hires a decent team underneath him is still forced to fire or micro-manage some people each year. Does he then start hiring people just for cannon fodder? At some point, they should start looking at who they are hiring.
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I knew a guy who worked for Exxon. He said they did a form of that. Seemed a bit odd to me. A competent manager who hires a decent team underneath him is still forced to fire or micro-manage some people each year. Does he then start hiring people just for cannon fodder? At some point, they should start looking at who they are hiring.
That's where DEI rears its ugly head.
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Does he then start hiring people just for cannon fodder?
Of course they do. They do that even in organizations without a former stack ranking policy and I'm sure it's just worse in ones that do.
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Boeing 767 lands nose first during emergency at Istanbul airport. No front landing gear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u1_Iz8d0zg
Successful landing. A bit rough I am sure.