Opinion time: best AK value on the market now?

[Balog]

I see Saigas are drying up, and the places that have them are getting $419 apiece unconverted. There is a distributor on arfcom who's saying more should be arriving in a month or so, but I'm not sure I want to count on that. I've had a couple friends looking to get an AK pattern, and I'm not sure how to steer them right now.

So, in your opinion, what is the best deal on the market right now for AK style rifles, both for simple buy and use as well as a platform for modding?

[Northwoods]

Vera.

[lee n. field]

getting $419 apiece unconverted

If they got 'em, that doesn't sound bad.

(I'm continually glad I'm a bit ahead of the curve on this, for once.)

[AJ Dual]

Even Romanian WASR's are going for $499 at the various outlets known for bargain prices like Centerfire or Classic Arms.   AIM doesn't even have any AK pattern rifles, and SOG only has a handful and doesn't seem to sell direct anymore. I don't see anything jumping out at me as a "deal" at Atlantic Firearms either. Seems like they prefer to go with the higher end botique importers who re-work the AK's, like Arsenal etc.

$419 for an unconverted Saiga is looking like a good price, all things considered. (I'm seeing $459 now...) Grinding the rear trunnion stock tang off with a Dremel isn't hard, and sticking in a receiver block like this http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-372/Saiga-AK47-Internal-Stock/Detail is pretty easy.

As is moving the FCG forward with a Tapco G2 trigger kit.

If they got 'em, that doesn't sound bad.

(I'm continually glad I'm a bit ahead of the curve on this, for once.)

Amen. In the firearms market, I guess I "won" one for once, with my cheap $299 SAR2, WASR, and Draco pistol, and my $599 Saiga 12-S that I had gotten over the years. 

[Balog]

Was going through an old Shotgun News last night. So depressing seeing how cheap Ak's used to be... 

[Balog]

Looks like it's a bit over $200 for a complete conversion kit http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-887/CSS-Internal-Block%2C-ACE/Detail

With taxes, shipping, and ffl fee it'd be over $700 to go that route, plus labor. 

[Balog]

Vepr's are $500 on sale right now, anyone know how much heavier they are compared to a Saiga? Does Ace make receiver blocks for them?

[AJ Dual]

Looks like it's a bit over $200 for a complete conversion kit http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-887/CSS-Internal-Block%2C-ACE/Detail

With taxes, shipping, and ffl fee it'd be over $700 to go that route, plus labor. 

Yes, but your Saiga would be the quality of an Arsenal USA build/conversion, or better, that would run you $899 or more.

[Balog]

Yes, but your Saiga would be the quality of an Arsenal USA build/conversion, or better, that would run you $899 or more.

There is that. I think if the finish was better I'd be more inclined to get a used Arsenal and then just swap in an ACE stock after, but if I'd need to redo the finish anyway may as well just do the conversion myself.

Do you have any thoughts on the Vepr as it compares to the Saiga?

[AJ Dual]

There is that. I think if the finish was better I'd be more inclined to get a used Arsenal and then just swap in an ACE stock after, but if I'd need to redo the finish anyway may as well just do the conversion myself.

Do you have any thoughts on the Vepr as it compares to the Saiga?

Can't say as I have any personal experience with the Veprs. I have heard complaints that the front trunnion for the barrel area is bigger/thicker than a Saiga, so drilling/tapping it for a bullet guide might be harder. And it has that funky little diagonal cut on the back of the receiver so you'd have to be sure you got the right stock adapter for it. I see pictures of conversions with the angled spot filled in with something, so I assume somebody makes them.

I do know everyone's excited about the Molot Veper 12's hitting the shores as an alternative to the Saiga 12ga, because of the more AR style magwell etc. But that's about it.

[MechAg94]

My older Vepr K that I got through FBMG years ago is a damn good rifle.  I have not tried to modify it though.  I am currently still waiting on a builder to finish a milled receiver AK. 

[MechAg94]

IMO, the current best value on an AK is an AR15.  I had a guy at work ask me about buying one.  He was not a gun person.  I had no idea how to steer him into buying an AK.  It was much simpler just to suggest he go to Academy and look at the Windam/Bushmaster/S&W AR15's.  he ended up buying a Windam.  It was much easier once I found out his son built an AR.  

The only AKs I see down here are the cheap Century guns and really expensive Arsenals and such.  There are so many variants, I hate to even suggest a non-gun person even buy one unless I think they they like to tinker with them.  The only contact I know who builds them is having trouble getting barrels and takes a good bit of time to build them. 

[Balog]

IMO, the current best value on an AK is an AR15.  I had a guy at work ask me about buying one.  He was not a gun person.  I had no idea how to steer him into buying an AK.  It was much simpler just to suggest he go to Academy and look at the Windam/Bushmaster/S&W AR15's.  he ended up buying a Windam.  It was much easier once I found out his son built an AR.  

The only AKs I see down here are the cheap Century guns and really expensive Arsenals and such.  There are so many variants, I hate to even suggest a non-gun person even buy one unless I think they they like to tinker with them.  The only contact I know who builds them is having trouble getting barrels and takes a good bit of time to build them. 

Meh, one of the more lasting things I took from my time in Iraq was a deep seating loathing for AR pattern rifles. I know lots of folks love them, but I just can't in good conscience recommend them to anyone. Not trying to start a debate, just where I'm coming from.

Can't say as I have any personal experience with the Veprs. I have heard complaints that the front trunnion for the barrel area is bigger/thicker than a Saiga, so drilling/tapping it for a bullet guide might be harder. And it has that funky little diagonal cut on the back of the receiver so you'd have to be sure you got the right stock adapter for it. I see pictures of conversions with the angled spot filled in with something, so I assume somebody makes them.

I do know everyone's excited about the Molot Veper 12's hitting the shores as an alternative to the Saiga 12ga, because of the more AR style magwell etc. But that's about it.

I've hseen buzz that they're blowing out the old slant cut receiver veprs because a new batch with normal receivers will be coming in. No idea if that's true or not.

[MechAg94]

I can see your point BUT......I know where I can send someone to buy a quality AR rifle.  I don't know where to tell someone to go for a good AK.  That is really my only point. 

One of my favorite HiCap rifles is a converted Saiga in 223.  Which reminds me, I am off today and I was considering what I wanted to take to the range to shoot.   

[MechAg94]

A thought just came to mind, don't some people make high cap mags designed to fit the unconverted Saiga rifles?  That would seem to be a good value.

[Balog]

I can see your point BUT......I know where I can send someone to buy a quality AR rifle.  I don't know where to tell someone to go for a good AK.  That is really my only point. 

One of my favorite HiCap rifles is a converted Saiga in 223.  Which reminds me, I am off today and I was considering what I wanted to take to the range to shoot.   

An Arsenal is guaranteed quality (as much so as any AR anyway) and competitively priced vs a good AR. 

[MechAg94]

An Arsenal is guaranteed quality (as much so as any AR anyway) and competitively priced vs a good AR. 

You are right.  I just don't see too many down here.  One gun shop carries them, but doesn't always have them. 

[Balog]

Ahhh. I'm so used to buying everything online I forget about physical storefronts not having everything.

[MechAg94]

Ahhh. I'm so used to buying everything online I forget about physical storefronts not having everything.

Well, I am looking at it from the perspective of telling a newbie where and what to buy.  That is my recent experience.  Online is not an easy thing to explain to someone who just wants to go buy something. 

[MillCreek]

Looks like it's a bit over $200 for a complete conversion kit http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-887/CSS-Internal-Block%2C-ACE/Detail

With taxes, shipping, and ffl fee it'd be over $700 to go that route, plus labor. 

!!!!!!

[Bob F.]

The real question: is there any reasonably priced bulk AK ammo avail??? LGS doesn't have any. Very little Ak or .223/5.56 of any kind. heard today that PMC has sold all their .223 & 5.56 production for 2013

[Balog]

SG Ammo still has cases of Golden Tiger x39 (the only kind I'll shoot) for somewhere around 23 or 24 cents per round. Not the cheapest, but not exorbitant.

[French G.]

The real question: is there any reasonably priced bulk AK ammo avail??? LGS doesn't have any. Very little Ak or .223/5.56 of any kind. heard today that PMC has sold all their .223 & 5.56 production for 2013

That's why I finally sealed the deal on my plan I mentioned months ago. Bulk purchase of 5.45x39 followed by finding a gun afterwards. J&G had the 5.45, some places are out of stock. $990 plus half a $230 shipping bill for 6480 rounds. I now have enough 7.5 Swiss to shoot out the barrel of every K-31 I own too. Picked up a Century-74, another spam can of ammo and 5 mags used for $650 FTF. Hey, even Century can't screw up an AK! Plus I test drove it first. I figure with the mag and ammo value I'm only about $350 into the gun, so I can now justify buying a nicer one in the future. 

[tokugawa]

Balog,
 The Vepr is built on an RPK receiver- it is a heavier trunnion, barrel, and receiver than a standard AK.
 They shoot well. not as well as a Valmet, but a lot less money. Robinson used to sell them as a conversion.
 The stock issue is big, they have an RPK slantcut receiver.
 
 I am interested in your take on AR rifles- a friend  did three tours in Vietnam -2/1 marines- during the changeover from the M14 and HATED the M16.   I thought most of the AR problems were worked out by now.

[MechAg94]

My Dad has said that he never had issues with his M16, but he was doing patrols as part of a maintenance battalion.  He trained with the M14 and can still shoot one really well.  He always said he appreciated that he could carry a hell of a lot more ammo with M16 which was more important than a lot other things.