Woman Dies While Adjusting Bra Holster

[Ben]

Seems to me we were discussing this possibility after these holsters were introduced. Given the description of the fatal injury, it looks like the 4 rules were involved.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/19/michigan-woman-shot-herself-while-adjusting-bra-holster-police-say/?intcmp=latestnews

Edited for grammar

[Jamisjockey]

One of my big concerns with these holsters is that they are a soft material.  Reholstering into soft holsters has caused ND/AD before.

[230RN]

Probably the biggest danger comes when you are manipulating guns.

That's why I hate unloading at the Post Office.  Or at home or anywhere.  I have one shelf of useless books about 2-1/2 feet long as a "safe direction" IF I decide for some reason to load or unload.

Most of these books are obsolete computer books.  Like on DOS.  Like on Win 3.2.  Like that there. :)

Difficulty of manipulation is also why I don't like molded holsters.

Terry

[Hawkmoon]

She may have been having some problem getting the holster to fit right, or to get the gun to fit the holster right, but the gun didn't just "go off." Plus -- she shot herself in the eye, while allegedly adjusting her bra. I've never seen one of those cleavage holsters up close and personal, but I think I can safely surmise that they aren't set up to carry with the muzzle pointed up at the wearer's chin.

Which suggests that she not only removed the gun from the holster completely, she also turned it up and pointed it at her own face and had a thumb or some finger on the trigger. It's a very unfortunate incident, but it goes to demonstrate why we have the four rules, and why it's important to remember them and follow them ALWAYS. Murphy never takes a vacation.

[Jamisjockey]

Probably the biggest danger comes when you are manipulating guns.

That's why I hate unloading at the Post Office.  Or at home or anywhere.  I have one shelf of useless books about 2-1/2 feet long as a "safe direction" IF I decide for some reason to load or unload.

Most of these books are obsolete computer books.  Like on DOS.  Like on Win 3.2.  Like that there. :)

Difficulty of manipulation is also why I don't like molded holsters.

Terry

I unload/load into the safe, pointed at the bottom. 

[230RN]

^

I unload/load into the safe, pointed at the bottom.  

The angle of reflection = the angle of incidence.

Which means if the bullet hits the bottom and bounces off that onto the back wall, then bounces off that, there's a good chance it will come right back at you.

Try it with a flashlight and two mirrors at right angles to each other and you'll see what I mean.

Let alone having fragments flying around randomly out of the safe.

I, personally, would not use anything metal as a "safe direction" backstop.

Before I gathered all my archaic computer books onto one shelf, I had an expired bullet-"proof" vest I hung up for a safe direction.

Terry

[roo_ster]

If the bullet does not penetrate the safe, it will likely shatter.  Backspatter of lead is no fun and neither is jacket material, but it it more a threat to eyeballs without glasses in front of them than a shot to the chest.  The closer the angle of incident to 90deg, the greater the likelihood of shattering.

[wmenorr67]

Darwin at work.

[Doggy Daddy]

5 gallon "Homer Bucket" filled with playground sand?

[Ben]

She may have been having some problem getting the holster to fit right, or to get the gun to fit the holster right, but the gun didn't just "go off." Plus -- she shot herself in the eye, while allegedly adjusting her bra. I've never seen one of those cleavage holsters up close and personal, but I think I can safely surmise that they aren't set up to carry with the muzzle pointed up at the wearer's chin.

Which suggests that she not only removed the gun from the holster completely, she also turned it up and pointed it at her own face and had a thumb or some finger on the trigger. It's a very unfortunate incident, but it goes to demonstrate why we have the four rules, and why it's important to remember them and follow them ALWAYS. Murphy never takes a vacation.

With condolences to the family, I'd be curious to learn just what happened. If I recall from when we discussed these holsters on APS, the original designs at least, while not "barrel up", were, I think, horizontal, but with the barrel slightly up from the horizontal, vs down. That still wouldn't account for holster design being a primary factor, but it could be a small contributing factor. With the eye as the entry point, there had to be some pretty major manipulation of the gun and holster/bra going on.

[Perd Hapley]

Seems to me we were discussing this possibility after these holsters were introduced. Given the description of the fatal injury, it looks like the 4 rules were involved.

I think you mean "not involved."

Probably the biggest danger comes when you are manipulating guns.

That's why I hate unloading at the Post Office.  Or at home or anywhere.  I have one shelf of useless books about 2-1/2 feet long as a "safe direction" IF I decide for some reason to load or unload.

Leaving the gun in the car I understand, but why unload?

[Ben]

I think you mean "not involved."

True.

[Firethorn]

5 gallon "Homer Bucket" filled with playground sand?

Or an old paper grocery bag stuffed completely full of newspaper. 

Probably about the safest method short of actually bying a bullet stopper like what the military uses.

[vaskidmark]

Bra holsters mostly seem to call for a one-handed grip and ripping the handgun downwards out of the holster.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77TGGEYhPnM  That puts the muzzle up towards the face - even if for just a fraction of a second.  If you watch the video you will see the demonstrator often has her finger inside the trigger guard before the handgun has cleared the holster, let alone has been brought on target.  (BTW - the Flashbang appears to be a rigid piece of kydex.)

Brat Woman's Concealed Holster http://www.deepconceal.com/Women-s-Bra-Holster-p/brat.htm is a soft fabric version of the Flashbang.

The "Naturally Concealed" holster http://www.rural-revolution.com/2013/02/for-ladies-beauty-of-bra-holster.html is a pouch worn under the bustline.  I'm going to guess that it is all too easy to pull the handgun past 90* rotation while drawing, which also ends up pointing somewhere near your face.

The Concealed Carry Corset http://tacticalshit.com/ccw-holster-review-the-concealed-carry-corset/ appears to be more like an IWB holster.  Although drawing across the front does still endanger the girls.

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

5 gallon "Homer Bucket" filled with playground sand?

Just be sure your sand has not settled into a hard plug.  I use a 3-gallon bucket filled with 2 1/2 gallons of sand.  Put the gamma top on, turn the bucket over a few times, take the gamma top off.  Learned my lesson one day when a shlub corrections officer thought "unloading barrel" was what you unloaded your ammo into - as in firing into it.  First ricochet hit him in the gut - he was standinng right in front of the 55-gallon barrel set at a 45* angle.  Second or third ricochet hit the warden's windshield when he jumped out of the way.  Numbers 4 - 6 went somewhere.  Not a single bullet - fired point blank - penetrated the plug of sand that had formed from standing out in the elements for probably years.

stay safe.

[230RN]

"Leaving the gun in the car I understand, but why unload?"

Some jurisdictions (Denver, for example), require that the gun be unloaded in either a locked container or locked compartment in a locked car when unattended...variations on this theme exist from political enclave to political enclave, such as where you can stow the ammo.

This especially bothers me with autos, since even more manipulation is required to get that top round in the chamber for full capacity when you reload it because you have to pull the mag to top it off after chambering the first round, then reinsert it.

In addition, the act of closing the slide tends to push the bullet slightly deeper in the case with each reloading from the mag.  (~0.002", more or less, with one gun of mine.)

Terry

[BryanP]

5 gallon "Homer Bucket" filled with playground sand?

Great idea.  Unless you have cats. 

[vaskidmark]

Great idea.  Unless you have cats. 

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24282

 

stay safe.

[Scout26]

She may have been having some problem getting the holster to fit right, or to get the gun to fit the holster right, but the gun didn't just "go off." Plus -- she shot herself in the eye, while allegedly adjusting her bra. I've never seen one of those cleavage holsters up close and personal, but I think I can safely surmise that they aren't set up to carry with the muzzle pointed up at the wearer's chin.

Which suggests that she not only removed the gun from the holster completely, she also turned it up and pointed it at her own face and had a thumb or some finger on the trigger. It's a very unfortunate incident, but it goes to demonstrate why we have the four rules, and why it's important to remember them and follow them ALWAYS. Murphy never takes a vacation.

Actually, I've seen them and seen them "modeled".  They are attached to the center of the bra and are angled up so the firey-death end is pointed at the wearer's brain-pan.   

One more reason I'm glad I'm a male.

[41magsnub]

[MillCreek]

^^^Yeah, I have never gotten into the Thunderwear concept either.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Dads old buddy, Bubba, used to carry a Desert Eagle in his thunderwear.

I also never understood the appeal, although, less from a safety standpoint and more from a "that cannot be comfortable for anyone" standpoint.

[Doggy Daddy]

Great idea.  Unless you have cats. 

Note the handle
<<<<<<

Also, runny nose red eyed itchy allergies.

But I do like them.

[Doggy Daddy]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24282

 

stay safe.

Yeah, I should get 3 or 4 of those.  Once opened, I keep dog kibble in Homer buckets.  Those lids would be easier for the wife to remove when I'm not around.

[Perd Hapley]

Yeah, I should get 3 or 4 of those.  Once opened, I keep dog kibble in Homer buckets.  Those lids would be easier for the wife to remove when I'm not around.

http://www.organization-store.com/charcoal-storage-container.html?cmpid=gpa&gclid=CjwKEAiA05unBRCymrGilanF9SwSJACqDFRm-se083BpkQjvr2Yu-Y8DVWYN-XvRsTJyBa0JZEH51BoC1OHw_wcB


I was thinking you could put kibble in there, but I guess you could also use it for a clearing barrel.