Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Jocassee on December 30, 2008, 10:41:09 AM
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http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/12/29/cynthia_mckinney_gaza.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab&imw=Y
A boat carrying international peace activists, including former Georgia congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, and medical supplies to the embattled Gaza Strip sailed back into a Lebanese port on Tuesday after being turned back and damaged by the Israeli navy, organizers of the trip said.
The crowds on the docks in the Lebanese port city of Tyre were jubilant and cheering as they welcomed the vessel.
The boat, which set off from Cyprus Monday wanted to make a statement and deliver medical supplies to embattled Gaza. The trip’s organizers said the boat was clearly in international waters, 90 miles off the coast of Gaza, at the time of its close encounter with the Israeli navy.
“Our boat was rammed three times, twice in the front and one on the side,” McKinney told CNN Tuesday morning. “Our mission was a peaceful mission. Our mission was thwarted by the aggressiveness of the Israeli military.”
Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for Israel’s Foreign Ministry, denied there had been any shooting although the two ships had made “physical contact.”
Palmor said there was no response to a radio warning to the Dignity, and the vessel then tried to out-maneuver the Israeli patrol boat, leading to the collision.
Cyprus state radio said the Cypriot government would seek explanations from Israel over the incident.
McKinney called on President-elect Obama to address the Gaza crisis, saying the weapons being used by Israel were supplied by the United States.
McKinney denied that the incident was an accident. “What the Israelis are saying is outright disinformation,” she said. “What happened to us last night was a direct threat to our mission, but not our cause.”
Palmor called those allegations “absurd.”
“There is no intention on the part of the Israeli navy to ram anybody,” Palmor said.
In a press release, the Free Gaza movement stated, “Contrary to international maritime law, the Israelis are actively preventing the Dignity from approaching Gaza or finding safe haven in either Egypt or Lebanon. Instead, the Israeli navy is demanding that the Dignity return to Cyprus — despite the fact that the ship does not carry enough fuel to do so.”
McKinney is a high-profile member of a boatload of activists that set sail Monday from Cyprus to deliver medicine to war-torn Gaza.
McKinney, who ran as the Green Party candidate for president, sees the voyage as a humanitarian mission, said her father, former Georgia state Rep. Billy McKinney.
“Her mother did not want her to go,” he said, referring to concerns at home for her safety. “But I think that certain people have missions in life and you can’t deter them.”
The activists, organized by the Free Gaza Group, said their 66-foot yacht called “SS Dignity” would defy an Israeli blockade of Gaza and ferry 16 activists and three tons of Cypriot-donated supplies. The supplies are intended to help treat the wounded from Israeli bombings against targets in Gaza, in retaliation for rocket fire aimed at civilians in southern Israeli towns.
Israel’s aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip continued for a third day on Monday. By Monday, the death toll rose to 364, with some 1,400 reported wounded, according to Palestinian medical officials.
McKinney had sent an e-mail days ago to friends and supporters saying she intended to go to Gaza, said Hugh Esco, a Decatur resident who ran her presidential campaign Web site.
“She has stood with people all over this planet against oppression,” said Esco.
McKinney said she will petition President-elect Barack Obama to speak out against the attacks on Gaza.
The Free Gaza group has made five deliveries of aid by boat to Gaza since August, defying a blockade imposed by Israel when Hamas won control of the territory in June 2007. Organizers say they are aware they may be stopped this time.
“I don’t know if she’ll get off the boat,” her father said. “I hope she gets back safely.”
— The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Is it wrong for me to be just a little bit happy?
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http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/12/29/cynthia_mckinney_gaza.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab&imw=Y
Is it wrong for me to be just a little bit happy?
Yes. You should be very happy! You need a vacation to a re-education kamp, komrade!
:police: <= Schadenfreude polizei
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I hope they get boarded if they try again.
Israel is affecting a trade embargo against Gaza to disrupt an enemy's ability to wage war against them. These people are attempting to circumvent that embargo. They are effectively declaring war against Israel in doing so.
They need to realize the enormity of that message... that this isn't some stupid college protest stunt.
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Other, non-leftie sources say that the yacht hit the patrol boat in high seas due to lousy maneuvering on the part of its captain.
Military vessels seldom "ram" because the crew knows it's foolish and can cause severe damage to the ship.
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Other, non-leftie sources say that the yacht hit the patrol boat in high seas due to lousy maneuvering on the part of its captain.
Military vessels seldom "ram" because the crew knows it's foolish and can cause severe damage to the ship.
We should loan the Israelis an icebreaker, so they can go full Captain Nemo next time.
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I was thinking that someone should give them some supersonic metallic medicine to deliver, but that would likely be in bad taste. If Israel was as evil as some of these people think, that boat would have disappeared.
I didn't realize she ran for President. Scary.
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Other, non-leftie sources say that the yacht hit the patrol boat in high seas due to lousy maneuvering on the part of its captain.
This sounds much more likely.
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Anyone else who thinks this yacht might've had more than medicines on it? Hell, anyone who thinks it had no medicine at all, only say...explosives or somesuch?
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Look at the flags on the boat. The starboard one is Lebanese. The port flag is...Palestinian. Since this is CNN, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a green flag up above and they're not showing it.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.turner.com%2Fcnn%2F2008%2FWORLD%2Fmeast%2F12%2F30%2Fgaza.aid.boat%2Fart.dignity.struck.afp.gi.jpg&hash=78a913512a20c25e7581db589bfa27aeea0f59da)
Israel was justified in stopping it.
Oh, and McKinney just appeared in an interview on international news, saying that
"The United States is the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet." :mad:
Yeah, I wish they'd sunk it.
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How sad ... just think - they could have been sunk :P
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This is a pile of crap. According to our Navy and the media down here, it is McKinney's yacht who rammed our boat, not vice versa.
I will translate a Yedioth Ahronoth article if anybody is interested.
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I wonder if they had just lit it up with a Mk19 or two, would anyone have known? I can see the headline now "Moonbat mysteriously vanishes......"
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This is a pile of crap. According to our Navy and the media down here, it is McKinney's yacht who rammed our boat, not vice versa.
I will translate a Yedioth Ahronoth article if anybody is interested.
That's what makes sense. Patrol boats DO NOT RAM THINGS. It'd be stupid. You don't jeopardize the structural integrity of your own vessel at sea. Ramming can rupture fuel tanks, break fuel lines, compromise the hull, kill crewmembers near the breach, and the impact can throw people forward and injure them, along with upsetting stored cargo and weapons, it's just...not done.
There were high seas, that's already been proven. Even the people on the yacht said they were ill from the high seas. They tried to run the blockade, they crashed into the warship. The impact even looks like their forward superstructure caught the bow of another boat while moving forward perpendicular to it.
Also? The thing is a yacht. If they'd actually been rammed, it would have been like PT-109. It's still in one piece. They crashed into a warship, period.
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According to the Navy, they warned the moonbats not to approach the Gaza shore, as the entire place was declared closed to unauthorized civilians under Israeli law.
Said moonbats proceeded, and the Navy vessel interposed itself in the path of their ship, and then the moonbats rammed.
Those moonbats interviewed by Yedioth ADMIT TO RAMMING, but claim they were fired upon first. I disbelieve.
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I will translate a Yedioth Ahronoth article if anybody is interested.
Micro, I'd be interested whenever you have some spare time. I'm sure we won't get that story (at least an accurate translation) from our MSM.
And once again, if the USA is the greatest evil on the planet, why doesn't she move somewhere else?
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Oh, the story has been updated on Yedioth Ahronoth.
Here's what they have to say:
IN the early morning today, naval ships have been put on alert to stop a ship belonging to ISM, known as a pro-Palestinian aid group. At first, the Naval ship has requested the ISM vessel via radio to stop and turn away from its route. According to the government, the commander of the vessel (that carried many journalist and humanitarian equipment) tried to evade one of the Navy's missileboats. According to the ISraeli government, the missile boat stopped its motion, but the vessels collided anyway.
Yet the crew of the ship have another story. According to Angela Goldfried, member of "Free Palestine", the ship was 'surrounded by 11 Navy ships that fired at it and rammed it in international waters'
The article goes on in this vein, but IMO the moonbats' story is INSANE.
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Fired at it? Good lord, it's a YACHT. One hit and the fiberglass hull would have gone up like a torch if the round didn't go right through. Do these people think anyone believes that? Where's the impact holes?
I've seen the results of a Coast Guard cutter firing a single burst at the engines of a fiberglass go-fast drug boat. It practically tore the back end off it and set it on fire. Pleasure boats are not designed to be hit with ordnance of any sort.
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I wonder if they had just lit it up with a Mk19 or two, would anyone have known? I can see the headline now "Moonbat mysteriously vanishes......"
I wonder if there would've been a series of explosions, such as one might expect from munitions or explosives stowed away under deck...?
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Manedwolf, they rammed a Sa'ar missile boat, not a patrol boat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27ar_4.5-class_missile_boat
Imagine ELEVEN of these would have fired at them.
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Just as reference, for those who haven't been around water areas for most of their lives. Ever see an RV that's been in a serious accident, how they just completely come apart with thin material and insulation all over the road, all structural integrity gone?
That's what pleasure yachts look like if they hit together hard. Then they generally catch fire and burn to the waterline in minutes (fiberglass resin, once it gets going, you have seconds to toss the raft pod and dive after it, it goes up fast), or sink. I'd seen a few do that in S. Florida.
Yachts are not made to be impacted by anything. If they'd been "rammed", they would not be there.
Edit: I just looked at the missile boat photo. 498 tonnes. If they'd been rammed by that, there'd be two halves of a sinking boat and burning fuel on the water. Likewise if they'd been "fired on"...with 20mm Oerlikons? It'd have been chewed apart with one burst. Idiots.
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Just as reference, for those who haven't been around water areas for most of their lives. Ever see an RV that's been in a serious accident, how they just completely come apart with thin material and insulation all over the road, all structural integrity gone?
That's what pleasure yachts look like if they hit together hard. Then they generally catch fire and burn to the waterline in minutes (fiberglass resin, once it gets going, you have seconds to toss the raft pod and dive after it, it goes up fast), or sink. I'd seen a few do that in S. Florida.
Yachts are not made to be impacted by anything. If they'd been "rammed", they would not be there.
Edit: I just looked at the missile boat photo. 498 tonnes. If they'd been rammed by that, there'd be two halves of a sinking boat and burning fuel on the water. Likewise if they'd been "fired on"...with 20mm Oerlikons? It'd have been chewed apart with one burst. Idiots.
Agreed. A yacht is no match for any steel military vessel.
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Just as reference, for those who haven't been around water areas for most of their lives. Ever see an RV that's been in a serious accident, how they just completely come apart with thin material and insulation all over the road, all structural integrity gone?
That's what pleasure yachts look like if they hit together hard. Then they generally catch fire and burn to the waterline in minutes (fiberglass resin, once it gets going, you have seconds to toss the raft pod and dive after it, it goes up fast), or sink. I'd seen a few do that in S. Florida.
Yachts are not made to be impacted by anything. If they'd been "rammed", they would not be there.
Edit: I just looked at the missile boat photo. 498 tonnes. If they'd been rammed by that, there'd be two halves of a sinking boat and burning fuel on the water. Likewise if they'd been "fired on"...with 20mm Oerlikons? It'd have been chewed apart with one burst. Idiots.
So you're saying that we shouldn't use Jamis' boat to hunt Somali pirates with?
=D :laugh:
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I think we'd be smarter than McKinney. We'd fire our weapons at the Somali pirates, not try to ram them with out boat.
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I wonder if they had just lit it up with a Mk19 or two, would anyone have known? I can see the headline now "Moonbat mysteriously vanishes......"
can't say it would have bothered me a whole lot.
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I dunno. If the Israeli military had turned Cynthia McKinney into a grease spot, there would have been hell to pay in the media. It would have been a PR disaster.
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I could see the Israeli vessel firing guns. Not at the yacht, mind you, but a shot across the bow is the international naval signal for "cease and decist."
I'd be real impressed to see a 500-ton missile boat that could maneuver well enough to ram a fiberglass yacht.
This reminds me of that P-3 that "rammed" that Chinese MiG clone about ten years ago. Ain't no way it happened like that.
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McKinney survived?? Now THAT is scary. Now if Rosie O'D had been on board, a two-fer!!
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I'm scared by how many people on digg and reddit fall for the terrorist view of events.
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I'm scared by how many people on digg and reddit fall for the terrorist view of events.
Links?
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I dunno. If the Israeli military had turned Cynthia McKinney into a grease spot, there would have been hell to pay in the media. It would have been a PR disaster.
Only if the story got out. Just don't leave any witnesses and nothing happened. No one knows what happened to her.
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Maybe they should have been flying a flag of Saint Pancake.
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Links?
Here's the reddit one. I can't find the digg one at the moment:
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/7mhqo/israelis_ram_medical_supply_ship_3_times_say_it/73l3
Of course my comment was summarily rated down.
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So you're saying that we shouldn't use Jamis' boat to hunt Somali pirates with?
=D :laugh:
Only with standoff weapons like a Mk19. But sugar mama won't hold up to an RPG hit very well....
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Riiiiiight
Because a modern ship would forgo, oh you know, guns/missiles/rockets/whatever (don't know the ship, I'm assuming it is of course armed) in favor of ancient war techniques.
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Just how big and maneuverable is a 500 ton ship, anyway?
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Manedwolf, they rammed a Sa'ar missile boat, not a patrol boat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%27ar_4.5-class_missile_boat
Imagine ELEVEN of these would have fired at them.
Looking at the pic of the ship, it's sporting a Phalanx. =D At 3000 rounds a min, moonbat chum.
Seriously, we all know this is President George W Bush's fault.
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Here's the reddit one. I can't find the digg one at the moment:
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/7mhqo/israelis_ram_medical_supply_ship_3_times_say_it/73l3
Of course my comment was summarily rated down.
From that reddit website (whatever that is):
I'm guessing the captain of this yacht lost control of it in the rough seas and hit the Israeli boat.
yeah, somehow he managed to be moving sideways.
Guys, I'm a total and complete land-lubber. I've never even seen saltwater.* But don't boats tend to, ya know, move sideways all the freaking time? Or am I really missing the boat? Yuk, yuk, yuk.
*OK, I saw Puget Sound once.
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They move sideways when drifting due to current or wind. Normally, they keep the pointy end going forward.
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Just as reference, for those who haven't been around water areas for most of their lives. Ever see an RV that's been in a serious accident, how they just completely come apart with thin material and insulation all over the road, all structural integrity gone?
That's what pleasure yachts look like if they hit together hard. Then they generally catch fire and burn to the waterline in minutes (fiberglass resin, once it gets going, you have seconds to toss the raft pod and dive after it, it goes up fast), or sink. I'd seen a few do that in S. Florida.
Yachts are not made to be impacted by anything. If they'd been "rammed", they would not be there.
Edit: I just looked at the missile boat photo. 498 tonnes. If they'd been rammed by that, there'd be two halves of a sinking boat and burning fuel on the water. Likewise if they'd been "fired on"...with 20mm Oerlikons? It'd have been chewed apart with one burst. Idiots.
"Rammed", in this case, apparently means "We hit them because the evilnastybadmilitary ship didn't get out of our way and let us do whatever the hell we wanted in their territorial waters."
Anyone who seriously thinks the Israelis are incompetent enough that ELEVEN of their ships could have that little yacht surrounded and under fire and not turn it into splinters is seriously DELUSIONAL. I don't think that ONE Israeli ship could fail to make that thing "go away", were they so inclined.
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My take on what happened:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi360.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo42%2FALatchley%2FTacticalDiagram.jpg&hash=34e64e9ad717eedc119339829f76ec731d404dff)
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If a 500 ton steel missile boat managed to run into a fiberglass yacht pointy end first, wouldn't the yacht be split more or less in two?
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Chances are if they wanted to make a real "soft" go at stopping the USS Moonbat they would have turned a few firehoses on it and flooded the ever loving crap out of it. That's how we did it in my day when dealing with the Greenpeacers anyways. Of course, Israel has been known to take stronger measures...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
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If a 500 ton steel missile boat managed to run into a fiberglass yacht pointy end first, wouldn't the yacht be split more or less in two?
Other way around. The navy ship gets in front of it, the Moonbat's Skipper (brave and sure) goes Farragut. Or tries to slack the engines/steer away too late, and gets his trusty ship caved in. That would explain why the captain of an oceangoing vessel would not have the brains to steer clear of big heavy ships with guns on 'em. I'm pretty sure big heavy navy ships are painfully slow, so he should've seen that coming a long time before.
Of course, some brain sturgeon could've decided to 'run under the guns'. :lol:
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They move sideways when drifting due to current or wind. Normally, they keep the pointy end going forward.
Right.
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There are also "rules of the road" for nautical traffic encounters, too. Nominally, a vessel to your right has the right-of-way (which in the oh-so-sophisticated playbook diagram above would be the SS Moonbat). However, it is also recognized that larger vessels are slower to react to steering and throttle inputs, so as a general rule in navigation the larger vessel has the right of way. Playing chicken with a flippin' warship when you're drivin' a fiberglass yacht is just plain dumb.
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So, who owns the yacht? That guy is gonna be pissed.
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In the picture that I saw, the damage to the Moonboat was mostly or all to the superstructure. Looked as if they tried to run under the sharply raked bow of the steel missle ship ... =|
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In the picture that I saw, the damage to the Moonboat was mostly or all to the superstructure. Looked as if they tried to run under the sharply raked bow of the steel missle ship ... =|
That's what I said, they tried to slip by the bow, and the port side of the yacht superstructure clipped the bow of the warship starboard to port.
Like trying to beat a train. They're lucky they weren't cut in half.
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I could see the Israeli vessel firing guns. Not at the yacht, mind you, but a shot across the bow is the international naval signal for "cease and decist."
I thought that getting fired upon was the international land-and-sea signal for "soil your drawers while hugging the ground or running like mad." :lol:
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Ha!
The story of the SS Moonbat is not concluded!
I have received today's copy of "Israel Ha'yom", and it appears the ship is back afloat. Specifically, it has been pulled into Tel-Aviv's harbor yesterday by police, as it has been used as a casino boat. 120 gamblers have been arrested on deck.
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120 gamblers have been arrested on deck.
That little tub? What were they gambling at, Twister?
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That little tub? What were they gambling at, Twister?
A very good question. And yet this is how the police report has it.
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This story was too good to let die anyways. :laugh:
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Gambling on whether or not it would survive the next encounter with the Israeli Navy.