Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on December 03, 2022, 10:54:14 PM
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Dad set the kid down for a second while grabbing stuff from the car after shopping. Yote tries to drag the tyke away
I think it's California ( video )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iN4RTa2jQ
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Daddy throws like a girl.
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Daddy throws like a girl.
How would you throw if you were holding an infant in your other arm?
Terrifying video. Don't know what I would do if it happened to one of my kids way before I carried routinely.
One of my neighbors who used to feed wildlife and had a cat has moved out. I could swear, without statistical certainty, that her feeding of the little critters brought the bigger critters around, and suspect that some of the fleas around here was because of that. It wasn't a flea epidemic, but after I realized what was happening I sprayed like hell around door jambs and other entry ways (plumbing holes, electrical outlets, drain pipes) and that cured the problem.
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Terrifying video. Don't know what I would do if it happened to one of my kids way before I carried routinely.
You'd probably need to do the same thing whether you were packing or not. The coyote had the kid, so shooting it is out of the question. Depending on the environment, you might be able to shoot into the lawn to scare the yote. However in a residential neighborhood like that, there's a lot of stuff to deal with regarding where the bullet ends up, especially if you miss the lawn and hit the concrete.
A situation like this, and you've gotta get your hands dirty, like this mom did:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/connecticut-mom-saves-young-daughter-from-rabid-raccoon-attack-tosses-animal-into-yard
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You'd probably need to do the same thing whether you were packing or not. The coyote had the kid, so shooting it is out of the question. . . .
When Daddy got to the kid the coyote had already released her and was standing 10 feet away . . . an easy target with the child completely out of the line of fire. Shooting it then would have meant the carcass could have been recovered and tested, perhaps sparing the child rabies shots.
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I blame Trump and the NRA for this racist attack.
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PETA will probably cry foul for denying one of nature's creatures a meal.
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PETA will probably scream foul for denying one of nature's creatures a meal.
Aren't they the ones who call coyotes "songdogs?" :facepalm:
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Aren't they the ones who call coyotes "songdogs?" :facepalm:
Think they were called that long before PETA came along.
If there's a pack of coyotes in the vicinity, you might just be lucky enough to hear their piercing howls, which can reach high volumes and vary in intensity as different group members, both young and old, join to form a sort of creepy canine chorus. "We know that there are regional dialects in a coyote's howl, kind of like accents," says Gehrt. These bone-chilling sounds have earned the coyote a reputation as the "song dog" of North America
Coyotes: The 'Song Dogs' of North America
https://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/coyote.htm
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Ben's right. My first thought was cap the coyote after you pic the kid up, or especially when it came back while the news team was there, but there are houses all around and no good backstop. It's Cali, so I assume setting up some bait 40 yds into the wilderness bordering the neighborhood and waiting with an AR and thermals is a no go, but that's probably the safest route for everyone.
In a related story you could get you a good dog:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-sheepdog-fights-off-kills-coyotes-pack-attacks-sheep
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Darn things are getting too common around here. Had a coyote in the yard last Monday night when I went to let the dogs out to do their business. We always check the yard when we let the dogs out, especially at night. We have a couple of good, bright LED flashlights that make it easy to spot things after dark.
Actually drew my Glock on a coyote a year or two ago when it came up into the back yard late one night after our dogs. Just couldn't get a good shot off without endangering neighbors.
Edited to improve accuracy.
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In a related story you could get you a good dog:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-sheepdog-fights-off-kills-coyotes-pack-attacks-sheep
I read that this morning. A very good dog.
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In a related story you could get you a good dog:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-sheepdog-fights-off-kills-coyotes-pack-attacks-sheep
Saw this story the other day. What a great dog. He should have a bunch of steak dinners coming his way.
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Well it is Kali afterall. The coyote's life is much more important than the life of a human kid. :old:
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Meanwhile in DC, Democrats are like "Oh *expletive deleted*it, Coyote's ARE dragging kids across the border! Trump was right!"
ref: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/24/fact-check-trumps-coyote-remark-debate-taken-out-context/6008809002/
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One good thing about coyotes - if they're around, they'll reduce the number of cats roaming around loose.
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I currently live in Washoe Valley a rural area south of Reno - well - rural-ish.
A lot of older run down horse properties and quite a few new million dollar horse properties - real close to national forest and a big state park. I've heard yotes now and then but there are a lot of big dogs and it is a fairly "red" area not uncommon to see open carry in the local dollartree - no shooting allowed but you hear shooting occasionally.
Older native Nevadans have always shot at yotes and they're nowhere near as brazen as suburban Cali yotes.
Sooner or later we will hear of a little kid being dragged away and eaten but I doubt it will alarm the hoi polloi enough to arm themselves
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One good thing about coyotes - if they're around, they'll reduce the number of cats roaming around loose.
Until you run out of cats and small dogs.
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That's pretty terrifying. I'm with the "needs to be shot" crowd. Not for revenge, because not shooting it teaches it to drag the next kid away faster.
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Dingos tried to eat his baby...
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I'm not being snarky, just asking an honest question because I don't know. Do some of you live in an area where if you shot a coyote in a subdivision, you wouldn't be having a talk with Johnny Law? I know the area of CA where this happened. Houses are literally 20' or less apart in those housing tracts. At least a dozen neighbors would have called the cops on the guy, and he would likely have been taken to the pokey.
I 100% agree that you don't want yotes walking around that have a taste for human veal, but the neighborhood in the video is just a bad place to shoot. Even here in gun crazy Idaho, I suspect if someone shot a coyote in the street in North End Boise, there would be a half dozen cop cars there licktey split. Obviously once you're out in the 1 acre plus subdivisions the rules change.
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I'm not being snarky, just asking an honest question because I don't know. Do some of you live in an area where if you shot a coyote in a subdivision, you wouldn't be having a talk with Johnny Law? I know the area of CA where this happened. Houses are literally 20' or less apart in those housing tracts. At least a dozen neighbors would have called the cops on the guy, and he would likely have been taken to the pokey.
I 100% agree that you don't want yotes walking around that have a taste for human veal, but the neighborhood in the video is just a bad place to shoot. Even here in gun crazy Idaho, I suspect if someone shot a coyote in the street in North End Boise, there would be a half dozen cop cars there licktey split. Obviously once you're out in the 1 acre plus subdivisions the rules change.
If I was in that neighborhood and had kids, I would acquire two identical rifles - one would be a pellet gun and one would be a .22LR .
I would bait the yotes into the back yard and drill them with sub sonics. When Karen called the police I would give them the pellet gun and show them the video of the yote taking the child to dinner, very doubtful they would even keep the pellet gun ... edited to add... if you're playing loud music, they'll never hear the sub sonics - metallica was my choice for urban sub sonic noise concealment
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I'm not being snarky, just asking an honest question because I don't know. Do some of you live in an area where if you shot a coyote in a subdivision, you wouldn't be having a talk with Johnny Law? I know the area of CA where this happened. Houses are literally 20' or less apart in those housing tracts. At least a dozen neighbors would have called the cops on the guy, and he would likely have been taken to the pokey.
I 100% agree that you don't want yotes walking around that have a taste for human veal, but the neighborhood in the video is just a bad place to shoot. Even here in gun crazy Idaho, I suspect if someone shot a coyote in the street in North End Boise, there would be a half dozen cop cars there licktey split. Obviously once you're out in the 1 acre plus subdivisions the rules change.
I do have coyotes occasionally that come through my backyard because I live on an urban lake that is the result of a dammed creek, makes for a natural corridor for critters. Also being a typical lake lot, the houses are about 10' apart.
Yes, if I shot a coyote in my backyard, I would be cuffed in the back of a police cruiser in probably less than 10 minutes. My neighbors wouldn't say boo, but someone down the street would have called the cops or someone on the road would call in a man with a gun.
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Well it is Kali afterall. The coyote's life is much more important than the life of a human kid. :old:
I heard that the kid was secretly a white supremacist
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One of my neighbors capped a 'yote this summer. Cops weren't even called. I suspect the few Karen's in the neighborhood that would call about that didn't recognize the single shot for what it was. Dump half a mag and the sheriff's office will be along directly, but a single shot didn't get anyone too excited. Our houses are 20-'30' apart and lots are 1/2 to 3/4 acre or so.
Our subdivision does back up on a whole bunch of state owned wilderness tract (which is where the 'yotes live) and neighbor made sure to position himself so those woods were behind the target, not a house. I only know because he told me what had happened when my dogs got super sniffy at the bloodstain during a walk. He wanted to make sure I knew the locals were getting more aggressive.
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Coyote lives matter...
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I'll concede that depending on the neighbors a lot of people might get away with a shot in a backyard, but I was more talking about "middle of the street" like in the video. And that was middle of an LA metro suburban street. There are going to be houses behind houses behind houses.
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In a related story you could get you a good dog:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-sheepdog-fights-off-kills-coyotes-pack-attacks-sheep
That's quite a dog. Came out on top in an eight-against-one fight. That's impressive.
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The immediate neighbors on three sides of me would likely buy me a beer for killing a yote. I warned the neighbor to my north that coyotes are hanging around of late. He's got a nice dog that I'd hate to see have a problem with coyotes. He promptly told me about the shotgun and load he'll use if he sees one in his yard.
Don't know about any of the other neighbors further away.
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I assume setting up some bait 40 yds into the wilderness bordering the neighborhood and waiting with an AR and thermals is a no go, but that's probably the safest route for everyone.
Waddya think the coyotes are wearin bullet-proof vests?! The kids like to rub the hair on my legs!
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I doubt I would be arrested if I shot a coyote that had just gone after a toddler. That would assume I ran up and shot it close once in a fairly safe manner. I would probably call them myself just to be safe and let them know what happened.
Hunting in the city would be frowned on.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-MKFHdmfc
Here is the youtube video of the little girl getting bitten by a raccoon and the Mom flinging it away. I wish the Mom could have killed the raccoon, but she did a good job of making sure everyone was inside before tossing it.
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RE: Dogmush's post, that was in Ga and I'll bet the dog is what's known as a "white English", not really a breed but the result of selectively breeding farm dogs to do exactly what that one did!
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I'll concede that depending on the neighbors a lot of people might get away with a shot in a backyard, but I was more talking about "middle of the street" like in the video. And that was middle of an LA metro suburban street. There are going to be houses behind houses behind houses.
And I agreed with you on the LA 'hood. FWIW, my neighbor wasn't in his yard when he capped the 'yore, he was walking his dog, and took the shot from a sidewalk into an open field, backed up by woods. Not sure I would have taken the shot, but I'm not about getting bit either. If you do shoot, you better be sure where that bullet goes.
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This only emphasizes SSS. People or Varmint. We're getting to the point where we can't shoot things that very much need shot, that any reasonable person would agree need killing.
And for SSS, I'm about there for general use. Gods help you if you shoot some ahole that has it coming and there isn't a VERY obvious camera recording the deed.
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You can loose a single shot even in suburbia and you can get away with it 95% of the time
And if you are smart and use a .22 or especially a subsonic .22, even better. Take away that supersonic crack and well officer all I heard was a nail gun.
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You can loose a single shot even in suburbia and you can get away with it 95% of the time
And if you are smart and use a .22 or especially a subsonic .22, even better. Take away that supersonic crack and well officer all I heard was a nail gun.
Probably better than 95% as long as there's no collateral damage. A .38 Special or .380 is louder than a .22 but also doesn't have that *crack*. It's not that uncommon to hear a single shot in the burbs, which might have been a backfire (it's amazing how much those sound alike), or a firecracker, or who knows what. Nobody seems to get agitated. Multiple shots would probably get a police response in a hurry.
I need to shoot some squirrels and starlings with a pellet gun, but any direction I shoot except down has a neighbor's window in the path. No matter how quiet I am, when I sneak outside the vermin run or fly up a tree just high enough that I can't get a downward shot. I shot into the ground near one yesterday and that ran them off for a lot longer than just yelling at them or clapping or blowing an air horn. (they seemed to know it was a real danger, not just a loud noise)
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In a case where I had evidence that a dog or coyote attacked a child (injuries, tooth marks on clothes, video, witnesses, whatever) I am fairly certain I would not have had any negative consequences for shooting the aggressive animal in the suburb I used to live - assuming I didn’t mess it up and put a round into an occupied vehicle or something.
Where I live now it is hard to imagine anyone ever even calling the cops for gunfire, much less the police responding to it.
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You can loose a single shot even in suburbia and you can get away with it 95% of the time
And if you are smart and use a .22 or especially a subsonic .22, even better. Take away that supersonic crack and well officer all I heard was a nail gun.
I think that's true - every now and then I hear a "bang" somewhere within a few blocks, and even I can't always distinguish between a firecracker and a gunshot. Unless there's a fusillade of gunfire, an errant shot hits something it shouldn't, or someone takes a shot while the neighbors are hosting a garden party, it's going to be a non-event.
If the shot with a .22 is taken through an open window, with the muzzle well back from the opening, the noise audible outdoors will be noticeably reduced. (Don't hit the window frame.)
. . . I need to shoot some squirrels and starlings with a pellet gun, but any direction I shoot except down has a neighbor's window in the path . . .
I have very much the same problem where I'm at since they built homes on a couple of vacant lots next to mine. It almost seems the grackles and tree rats know they're in a safe space.
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Well, the comments to my question are enlightening. It appears all my time in coastal CA really influenced me regarding how shooting in a neighborhood is perceived. It definitely looks to be more "acceptable" I guess, than I thought. At least under the right circumstances.
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You guys don't have cans? Are you even Americans? >:D >:D
I'd be more worried about where the bullet ends up in a miss or a through and through than the sound. Both morally (the neighborhood kids are annoying, but probably don't deserve rounds into their bedroom....yet) and legally.
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.22 LR is pretty questionable on killing a moving yote, different if in a foot hold trap or snare. I prefer #4 buck shot or lead T shot if you can find it.
If I lived in a rural area with a coyote problem, I would have one or two of the livestock guardian dogs, I'm not talking about a German shepherd either.
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If I lived in a rural area with a coyote problem, I would have one or two of the livestock guardian dogs, I'm not talking about a German shepherd either.
Or a donkey. They hate canids. (but your dogs won't be safe either)
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That's pretty terrifying. I'm with the "needs to be shot" crowd. Not for revenge, because not shooting it teaches it to drag the next kid away faster.
I agree that in circumstances like that with the remote chance of collateral damage from a shot, I doubt there would be repercussions from the neighbors or the police. You might get a neighborhood gold star or a choklit cake or something. I doubt there'd be any "Why the bullet went right by my head I kooda bin kilt." people.
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....
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.22 LR is pretty questionable on killing a moving yote
perhaps, but I bet it's considerably annoying, they're probably gonna go somewhere else if shots are hitting the target
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I've seen dead deer on the roads within two miles of my URBAN house.
Then again, around here... We had a guy at my store yesterday whose girlfriend had ripped out his colostomy bag before throwing him out of the car, It took 911 about 20 minutes to respond.
Yeah, that's South St. Louis...
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perhaps, but I bet it's considerably annoying, they're probably gonna go somewhere else if shots are hitting the target
Four or 5 years ago I shot a couple of coyotes in my back yard, with a .22lr. They'd been getting real brave, showing up at the back fence (100yds from the house) and standing there while the dog & I walked towards it, walking through the front yard (within 10yds of the house), all in all making me worry about the dog & DW. For a few nights I threw some old dog food in the back yard. The last night I setup near the firewood stack. Damn, there were many more than I'd expected - must have been a dozen running around the yard. One of them stopped & stared at me, let him have a round in the chest. It took off like it'd been shot. The rest hung around, so I nailed another one. That's when they all left. The next day, I didn't find any bodies but did see a bunch of buzzards circling an area a few hundred yards away.
I have heard them singing in the distance but haven't seen any since then.
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I don't like coyotes any more than the next guy, but damn, if you are going to do them, try and do them clean.
Bleeding out from an underpowered bullet wound is a shitty way to go.
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Four or 5 years ago I shot a couple of coyotes in my back yard, with a .22lr. They'd been getting real brave, showing up at the back fence (100yds from the house) and standing there while the dog & I walked towards it, walking through the front yard (within 10yds of the house), all in all making me worry about the dog & DW. For a few nights I threw some old dog food in the back yard. The last night I setup near the firewood stack. Damn, there were many more than I'd expected - must have been a dozen running around the yard. One of them stopped & stared at me, let him have a round in the chest. It took off like it'd been shot. The rest hung around, so I nailed another one. That's when they all left. The next day, I didn't find any bodies but did see a bunch of buzzards circling an area a few hundred yards away.
I have heard them singing in the distance but haven't seen any since then.
That sounds similar to what my old boss went through when he lived local. Hogs started coming into his yard and digging things up. He finally was able to see them one night. Shot one with a 22. Best he could tell is they would stay away a while if one was shot.
His neighborhood was all 1 acre plots, but they don't allow shooting. That was why he was using an under powered 22 in a long barreled rifle. It worked did the job. He didn't have a suppressor.
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I don't like coyotes any more than the next guy, but damn, if you are going to do them, try and do them clean.
Bleeding out from an underpowered bullet wound is a shitty way to go.
when I did my hunter safety cert in 1974 , all the books I was reading said .22 lr/mag and .22 hornet were all good for yotes, but while I agree - "they're" not letting people shoot ruger ranch rifles in suburban areas - but the yotes are going after children and our furry family, I've seen video's of them trying to get kids before this one - if we are not legally allowed to protect children, we have to do so by other means .
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It is no more or less illegal to cap them with something capable of killing them humanely than it is a .22lr.
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It is no more or less illegal to cap them with something capable of killing them humanely than it is a .22lr.
The situation dictates a lot.
In a case of exigent circumstances like the video, I'd be shooting with whatever pistol I was wearing - so almost certainly 9mm.
In a case where I was illegally killing them either to prevent an attack or in retribution for one in a suburban or otherwise non-permissive area, I'd probably use something quieter like a suppressed .22LR or an air gun.
If I were trying to kill coyotes at my current house I'd either be using my carry pistol (again, probably a 9mm) assuming an unexpected encounter, or a centerfire rifle assuming I was actively hunting them.
I would definitely feel bad if I sent a canid (or any critter for that matter) off to die slowly, but if acting in defense of my family and animals - or even my neighbor's herds - I'd be willing to risk that.
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The situation dictates a lot.
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I would definitely feel bad if I sent a canid (or any critter for that matter) off to die slowly, but if acting in defense of my family and animals - or even my neighbor's herds - I'd be willing to risk that.
Oh yeah, definitely no question there.
My comments were specifically to the situation Cliffh outlined, where he had an issue, baited them in, laid up in ambush, then capped them with a .22 so they could run off and (maybe?) bleed out. If you are going to go to that much trouble, do it where there's a real backstop, and do it right. If you just can't set up your ambush in a way that you can reasonably ensure a clean kill AND not being arrested, maybe rethink the plan.
I agree though anything imminent (like the video in the OP) and they are DRT with a 9mm JHP, because that's likely what I have on me.
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I don't like coyotes any more than the next guy, but damn, if you are going to do them, try and do them clean.
Bleeding out from an underpowered bullet wound is a shitty way to go.
I did what I could with what I had. The -06 would have been too much; the neighbors would probably complain if a round went through their house. Both were facing me and took the round in the chest. A head shot would have been too iffy. The land around here is flat, trees are the only possible backstop. I'm not building a berm.
I don't sit around patting myself on the back for how they died. Then again, my family doesn't have to worry about (at least) those two.
That sounds similar to what my old boss went through when he lived local. Hogs started coming into his yard and digging things up. He finally was able to see them one night. Shot one with a 22. Best he could tell is they would stay away a while if one was shot.
I've heard the same about coyotes. One data point doesn't prove anything, but in this case it seems to be true.
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when I did my hunter safety cert in 1974 , all the books I was reading said .22 lr/mag and .22 hornet were all good for yotes, but while I agree - "they're" not letting people shoot ruger ranch rifles in suburban areas - but the yotes are going after children and our furry family, I've seen video's of them trying to get kids before this one - if we are not legally allowed to protect children, we have to do so by other means .
The .22 Hornet is basically a varmint cartridge (and coyotes are varmints). .22 Hornet is 3x to 4x more powerful (in terms of muzzle energy) than .22 magnum.
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I did what I could with what I had. The -06 would have been too much; the neighbors would probably complain if a round went through their house. Both were facing me and took the round in the chest. A head shot would have been too iffy. The land around here is flat, trees are the only possible backstop. I'm not building a berm.
I don't sit around patting myself on the back for how they died. Then again, my family doesn't have to worry about (at least) those two.
I've heard the same about coyotes. One data point doesn't prove anything, but in this case it seems to be true.
in some areas of rural NV one used to see dead coyotes hanging from fences as a warning to stay away, I'm sure it works because whhen I lived off grid north of Gerlach - we would hear plenty but the cats and chickens were fine - I think once one got a chicken but it may have been something else