Coyote concern update

[T.O.M.]

First off, I verified that there are coyotes in my suburb.  Saw the carcass of one that had a close encounter with a motor vehicle.  Cop buddy said it weighed in at 40 lbs.  It was in good health, no rabies or signs of starvation.  Just bad timing trying to cross the main street.

Second, I'm a little less worried about my dog.  As I said, she's a 45 lb. Aussie/Border Collie mix.  Took her to my in-laws for Turkey Day.  She did well with the other dogs she met...until she met my BIL's 100 lb Black Lab/German Shepherd/whatever else mix.  They didn't hit it off.  In fact, when BIL's dog licked my youngest son on the face, causing him to jerk away and yelp, Wendy (my dog) was on him in a flash.  Took two of us to pull them apart.  They ended up going at it five times over the weeken.  Last was the worst.  We had to work hard to pull my girl off of the other dog's neck.  She drew blood from two places, and lost a little of her own.  Both dogs fine, the BIL ended up at Urgent Care when his dog got him on the hand.  Wendy was amazingly peaceful and loving to me as soon as I got her out of the fight.  For some reason, she saw that dog as a threat to us all, and she wasn't going to have that.

My new plan for coyotes?  Drop the leash and watch to make sure it's a fair fight, and take out any that come at her from the back or at me.

[Grandpa Shooter]

I hope for your dog's sake you have a good relationship with an urgent care veterinary hospital.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

one of those bear spray foggers might be useful depending on how firearm friendly your ao is

[Ron]

The best plan would be to avoid/escape a coyote encounter IMHO.

[charby]

The best plan would be to avoid/escape a coyote encounter IMHO.

+1

I would never willingly let my dog go on the offensive with a coyote.

[AZRedhawk44]

The big thing to remember (that I suspect you're forgetting) is that housedogs fight for dominance/submission, while wild animals fight to kill.

And that coyotes, while smaller, fight almost daily in-pack while also hunting food daily.  Most of the time the food is moles/mice/birds, but every once in a while dinner is a small deer or stray dog.  They get a lot more practice at killing their meals than your dog does.

Your dog has heart.  Mine does too.  And it certainly stands a better chance off-leash than on-leash.  But... it's highly unlikely to win against even a single coyote that is within 10 pounds of its weight.  If it runs off to keep the fight going and is trapped by the rest of the pack, your dog will have its throat ripped out or be disemboweled in 10 seconds or less.

Things that will help:
-A very sturdy, very wide collar that makes a killing blow against the neck more difficult.
-Heavy fur that fills an attacking animal's mouth before it can bite into skin.

That's about it.  Your dog is likely to roll to submission pose once the entire coyote pack corners or corrals him, and he will expose his belly.  At that point, he'll be eviscerated.

You have that long, to engage enough of the pack with gunfire or some sort of chemical spray, to discourage them from eating your dog.

[CNYCacher]

In Chris' defense, I believe he was speculating on what to do if the attack (despite all efforts to avoid) was upon him and the dog already.

In particular, in the previous thread he wondered about holding the leash vs. dropping the leash if an actual fight broke out.

[Ron]

In Chris' defense, I believe he was speculating on what to do if the attack (despite all efforts to avoid) was upon him and the dog already.

In particular, in the previous thread he wondered about holding the leash vs. dropping the leash if an actual fight broke out.

Keeping his dog on leash will make it easier to avoid/escape a coyote encounter. A firearm or bear spray stacks the odds in favor of his dog and him getting away without a scratch.

[T.O.M.]

And, in part, I was complaining about how I spent my Turkey Day, dragging my BIL off to Urgent Care, sitting around with the 30 or 40 people who sliced themselves/burned themselves prepping dinner, while my turkey was at home getting eaten by everyone else.

In previous threads, I was worried about what to expect from a coyote.  I was worried that my dog was too passive to fight back if attacked.  I'm now not worried about her not fighting back, thouigh my real plan is to do anything/everything to avoid the situation.  I don't want my girl hurt.  And, no matter the outcome of any fight with a coyote, she'll end up hurt.  I know that.


And, FYI, I do leash walk her.  Too many cars. 

[Tallpine]

Seems like the perfect situation for a sawed-off shotgun.

Too bad it is so expensive and difficult to obtain one. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

now a pair of dogs that work as a pack can wear yotes out  i had a border collie lab that was small and a husky lab that was not small . 40 and 75 pounds respectively.  they would tag team em and tear em up. keep your dogs shots up to date

[AJ Dual]

now a pair of dogs that work as a pack can wear yotes out  i had a border collie lab that was small and a husky lab that was not small . 40 and 75 pounds respectively.  they would tag team em and tear em up. keep your dogs shots up to date

True. And dogs that live/work together also have a pack they belong to, and won't make the (fatal) mistake of trying to submit to the coyotes. They'll fight harder.

Dogs obviously "pack" with your family, but they don't exhibit all behaviors unless it's got actual other dogs in it, it seems.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

dogs pack up quick  we had a shepherd mix that got between my daughter and a copperhead. took a bite in the face. she was not the alpha in the pack but had a special place in my life. she chose a new master one day or she'd be with me still. it was weird  emma was unfriendly  to everyone  she would bark aggressively at me for a min or 2 each time i came home and i was the only one she tolerated besides the baby. one thanksgiving i brought a lady home who had no where to go  had just ended a long relationship and was as sad as anyone i ever saw. i had about 7 or 8 dogs at the time and on the way home i warned her about emma. i went to check on the turkey and the lady sat down on the couch.  when i came back in the room my wife had a funny look on her face and emma was sitting with her head in the ladies lap and a funny look on her face. doggy love. it was spooky. emma went home with her a couple days later.

[vaskidmark]

Seems like the perfect situation for a sawed-off shotgun.

Too bad it is so expensive and difficult to obtain one. 

$5.00 is expensive?  IIRC that's all an AOW stamp costs.

Or does Montana have prohibitions against them?

stay safe.

[CNYCacher]

$5.00 is expensive?  IIRC that's all an AOW stamp costs.

Or does Montana have prohibitions against them?

stay safe.

AOW applies for shotgun pistols only, right?  A virgin shotgun receiver with a handgrip stock and very short barrel(s) added.  An actual SBS requires a $200 tax stamp.  Something about if you remove the barrels, or add a long barrel or a stock then it forever becomes a SBS and you are suddenly a  very bad person.

[AJ Dual]

There is a new tech-branch letter circulating that shotguns that are mfg'd and sold with a pistol grip are now "other" and are not "shotguns" technically, and hence do not come under the SBS 18" barrel limitation of the NFA, as long as they still have a muzzle to grip OAL of 26" or greater.

So in theory, you can now legally have a Rem 870 or Moss 500-590 action with a "witness protection" style grip and a 14" barrel, and it transfers like any other Title I weapon on a mere 4473.

Good luck finding an FFL who'll sell you one without soiling his shorts though.  

OTOH, if you're brave, and your state laws are silent on the matter, you can print off the tech-branch letter for yourself, and buy a "cruiser" PG only shotty and cut the barrel yourself, or put an after-market 14" one on.

YMMV, and IANAL etc. And there's been lots of other gun-board drama surrounding this new uncharted territory. (IIRC, someone who's pro-RKBA has even bear-baited the Brady's/VPC with this to try and get these new "others" declared as being DD's, to get some kind of constitutional 2A suit going over this...)

Just FYI.   And of course, the 26" OAL, is still LOTS longer/bigger than a Serbu super-shorty that transfers on an $5 AOW tax. OTOH, if you want to manufacture an AOW yourself and register it (you need a PG'd shotgun from the factory, or a "virgin" receiver that's been neither), it's $200 for us non-SOT people.  So in that case, if it's going to cost you $200 anyway, you might as well go SBS, and get a folding stock instead.

[cordex]

Coyotes also like to lure dogs in.  One will approach (sometimes acting injured) and when a dog goes after it, the 'yote heads straight for the rest of the pack who are often concealed in a treeline.

[Harold Tuttle]

serbu shorty FTW

[zahc]

Here in the Dallas area someone's dog got eaten off their front porch by coyotes in one of the suburbs a couple of months ago.

[gunsmith]

I just chased some yotes from the front yard, the ranch owner at the same time opened the door so the 1 yr old lab, the big skinny mutt, & the border collie out.
The yotes always come close but never too close out here. Everybody shoots them-I've worried but the dogs here seem on top of it-as well as the cats ( one of which gave me a nasty bite nov 2nd that still hurts.

[Bogie]

AOWs are actually pretty prevalent/popular, and you see 'em on a lot of tables at Knob Creek - Only problem is that the manufacturing cost is pretty high, but you are only looking at the $5 tax stamp (and the hassle of getting the stamp).
 
Here's a linky...
 
http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=17948&query=retrieval
 
I've seen 'em for a lot less too...

[Grandpa Shooter]

Just get one of the Taurus shotgun/rifle combo.  You can get it in a variety of configurations. 410/22, 20/223 etc.  They are light and easily carried.  I keep mine handy when out hiking.  I have birdshot and BB shot rounds.  Works well on paper plates and tin cans.  Should be a good deterrent for coyotes or other varmint.  The spent round ejects when you press the release and with an elastic sleeve shell carrier you can reload and be back on target in a second.  A little practice can be fun.

[Bob F.]

Gunsmith: It's rare for a cat bite to NOT get terribly infected, often requiring IV antibiotics! Take good care and get to ER at first sign of trouble.

OP: keep dog leashed and carry a hi-cap 9mm, or bigger, with HP's. And don't miss!!

Bob

[gunsmith]

Gunsmith: It's rare for a cat bite to NOT get terribly infected, often requiring IV antibiotics! Take good care and get to ER at first sign of trouble.

OP: keep dog leashed and carry a hi-cap 9mm, or bigger, with HP's. And don't miss!!

Bob

thanks Bob, yup  the cat had bitten the ranch owner b4 & it got massively infected.
Here at the ranch we try to keep med supplies for TSHTF and I started taking tetracycline immediately ... it never got infected but it still hurts, I think the blasted cat severed a tendon or something. I have no med insurance, no money so ER visits are out of the question. The only reason the cat is still alive is missus ranch owner wont let us shoot it. We have to pray a yote gets brave enough to have at.   

[TommyGunn]

Gunsmith: It's rare for a cat bite to NOT get terribly infected, often requiring IV antibiotics! Take good care and get to ER at first sign of trouble.

OP: keep dog leashed and carry a hi-cap 9mm, or bigger, with HP's. And don't miss!!

Bob

I agree:  a cat I used to own bit me (it was a dumb error on my part) and although I didn't think the wound was serious at the time, I decided to see a doctor.  He told me my immediate reaction to it was naive and I was right to see a doctor.  I don't recall the medicine he gave me but he also had me soaking the wound in epsom salts for so long each day for awhile.