Author Topic: Bio Diesel B100 (Read 3951 times)

never_retreat · « **on:** November 07, 2007, 01:00:36 PM »

OK here it is, I've had enough, It is now costing 110 bucks to fill my truck.

Who here is making there own bio-diesel?
I'm looking for all the tricks and techniques needed.
I've got the sources for used oil and a garage full of tools, Its time to make something useful or hurt myself trying.

charby · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2007, 01:03:15 PM »

Here ya go.. good luck

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

never_retreat · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2007, 01:06:45 PM »

I'm on that site right now.

Ben · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:26:22 PM »

If your vehicle is still under warranty, be careful. I have a friend who started putting B100 in her Duramax and ended up with major injector issues. GM blamed the B100 and wouldn't cover warranty repairs as they only allow up to B20.

never_retreat · « **Reply #4 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:30:40 PM »

Thats not going to be a problem. I have a 2002 f250 with the 7.3L diesel, 165K miles so well broken in and way out of warranty. I have read about running it in these engines with no problems anyway.

Ben · « **Reply #5 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:52:16 PM »

That's cool -- from what little I've read, those 7.3s are great engines and will run just fine on B100.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2007, 08:23:53 AM »

Quote from: BenW on November 07, 2007, 02:52:16 PM

That's cool -- from what little I've read, those 7.3s are great engines and will run just fine on B100.

Seems like most bioD-related injector problems come from improper filtration and lack of lubrication. BioD, especially that made from old cooking oil, must be highly filtered or it will crap up an injector in a heartbeat. Clean storage tanks, a stepped set of low-micron filters on the pump, and regular fuel filter changes on the vehicle.

If memory serves, you need to ad some type of high-pressure lubrication agent to the fuel. I used to hear it referred to as a sulfurizur. I have no idea what it's called now that sulfur is a no-no in OTR diesel.

Brad

Firethorn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2007, 09:38:31 AM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on November 08, 2007, 07:23:53 AM

If memory serves, you need to ad some type of high-pressure lubrication agent to the fuel. I used to hear it referred to as a sulfurizur. I have no idea what it's called now that sulfur is a no-no in OTR diesel.

Brad

From what I've read, it wasn't that sulfer acts as a lube, it's that the processes to remove sulfer took also out lubricants. Processes have been adjusted to fix that issue. As for homemade B100, I haven't heard about any need for lubricants, but it might be needed.

HankB · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2007, 11:15:54 AM »

From what I've read, you should be careful about using home made fuel . . . the .gov may consider you a TAX EVADER who's bypassing motor vehicle taxes. police

So just don't brag about what you're doing and you should be fine! cool

never_retreat · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2007, 01:32:37 PM »

Quote from: HankB on November 08, 2007, 10:15:54 AM

From what I've read, you should be careful about using home made fuel . . . the .gov may consider you a TAX EVADER who's bypassing motor vehicle taxes. police

So just don't brag about what you're doing and you should be fine! cool

I think avoiding the taxes is my primary reason, there what cause diesel to cost more than regular. Just because there trying to get more money out of the truckers doesn't make it my problem.
Ya so no biodiesel powered stickers on the bumper.

No you don't have to add anything to burn the fuel except I will have to add anti-gel for the winters around here. I have heard depending on you base waste oil the gel point could be as high as 25, to close for my taste. Hell it was 25 this morning already. What happened to fall? we went from sumer to winter.

Tallpine · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2007, 03:05:06 PM »

I have a neighbor - mechanic for KW so he should know something of what he was talking about - that was going to do this. His plan was to start on regular diesel and use engine heat (or electric heater?) to warm the cooking oil tank and line, and then switch tanks. Same process shutting down: run on pure diesel a while to clear out the lines, filters, and injectors. About 50 miles to town so it would work okay for him.

Never found out if he got it working yet ....

Boomhauer · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2007, 05:03:47 PM »

Quote from: Tallpine on November 08, 2007, 02:05:06 PM

I have a neighbor - mechanic for KW so he should know something of what he was talking about - that was going to do this. His plan was to start on regular diesel and use engine heat (or electric heater?) to warm the cooking oil tank and line, and then switch tanks. Same process shutting down: run on pure diesel a while to clear out the lines, filters, and injectors. About 50 miles to town so it would work okay for him.

Never found out if he got it working yet ....

That's the way I've heard it is best to do...

drewtam · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2007, 05:35:59 PM »

Not to be a blow hard, but....
I am a diesel engine engineer. I am currently active in diesel engine development.

Do not use B100.

If you absolutely insist on using B100. If I can't convince you otherwise. If a gun to the head can't convince you not to do it. There is a way to do it. But you won't save money doing it right.
Gel point is just the tip of the iceberg.

Please, use B5, use B10, or 15, or 20 like the manufacturer says. But don't use B100 without running a full fuel quality control method.

Drew

Ben · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2007, 05:48:58 PM »

What's the gel point of B100 without anti-gel additives added anyways? It's like 40F or something, isn't it?

Firethorn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2007, 06:02:16 PM »

Quote from: drewtam on November 08, 2007, 04:35:59 PM

Not to be a blow hard, but....
I am a diesel engine engineer. I am currently active in diesel engine development.

I remember reading that B100, at least from the pump, is perfectly fine?

Of course, there's your fuel quality control method(handled by professional manufacturer).

never_retreat · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2007, 06:45:44 PM »

I figured I would probably cut the mix this winter just so I don't have to worry about the jell problem. I was thinking like 50 50 though.

Quote

Posted by: Tallpine
Insert Quote
I have a neighbor - mechanic for KW so he should know something of what he was talking about - that was going to do this. His plan was to start on regular diesel and use engine heat (or electric heater?) to warm the cooking oil tank and line, and then switch tanks. Same process shutting down: run on pure diesel a while to clear out the lines, filters, and injectors. About 50 miles to town so it would work okay for him.

Never found out if he got it working yet ....

The process he speaks of is for running virgin veg oil not used stuff. That is common but equipment intensive.

I've been doing a lot of reading on the quality control and testing aspects. So I don't plan on cutting any corners there. I thing some people are doing it as cheap as they can and seem to overlook the details. This can be observed in the postings on some of the bio-diesel boards.

Plus I can use the 4 cyl cummins engine on my generator as a test victim. And if the batches don't come out good enough for the truck I'll just burn it in my oil fired hot air furnace in the garage.
Waste not want not.

HankB · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:33:56 AM »

FWIW, some years (like 25) ago, I ran into a guy who had a Mercedes 220D.

He claimed he ran ordinary furnace oil in it, with no problems . . . except he was saving on the motor fuel taxes.

No idea about whether or not he needed to add anything during the winter to prevent jelling.

drewtam · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2007, 01:53:41 PM »

Quote from: HankB on November 09, 2007, 02:33:56 AM

FWIW, some years (like 25) ago, I ran into a guy who had a Mercedes 220D.

He claimed he ran ordinary furnace oil in it, with no problems . . . except he was saving on the motor fuel taxes.

No idea about whether or not he needed to add anything during the winter to prevent jelling.

I was under the impression that furnace oil is #2 fuel oil, which is basically non-road diesel. The differences are the taxes, and as such carry huge fines if caught using non-road fuel on the road. Plus, 2007 on highway truck will foul their after treatment if non-road diesel is used.

Drew

drewtam · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2007, 02:28:09 PM »

Quote from: Firethorn on November 08, 2007, 05:02:16 PM

I remember reading that B100, at least from the pump, is perfectly fine?

Of course, there's your fuel quality control method(handled by professional manufacturer).

That is not my understanding. Although there is a spec for diesel fuel. There is no consensus on biodiesel specs. One of the problems is that manufacturer A might use soy beans, manu. B might use chicken byproduct, another might use pig manure (not yet but in the near future).

Take this even further, where local manufacturers, right down to backyard brewers will use any combination of these ingredients and others. If your lucky they will control for cetane value and maybe density. But it is likely that they don't control for water content, aromatic content, lubricity, viscosity, boiling point, cloud point, nitrates, nitrites, sulfates, other fertilizers, bacteria, ash, sulfur, metals...

Don't get me wrong I think Biodiesel has a bright future (especially compared to ethanol). The industry just isn't fully mature yet. If we saw standardization, and different specs based on what the ingredients are, I think you would see more engine manufacturers approving higher ratios of bio-fuel. Its an exciting field right now, many major companies are spending millions in research but we're just not there yet despite the market incentives.

Drew

The opinions expressed in this post are my own. And do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Firethorn · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:21:23 PM »

Quote from: drewtam on November 09, 2007, 01:28:09 PM

Take this even further, where local manufacturers, right down to backyard brewers will use any combination of these ingredients and others. If your lucky they will control for cetane value and maybe density. But it is likely that they don't control for water content, aromatic content, lubricity, viscosity, boiling point, cloud point, nitrates, nitrites, sulfates, other fertilizers, bacteria, ash, sulfur, metals...

Don't get me wrong I think Biodiesel has a bright future (especially compared to ethanol). The industry just isn't fully mature yet. If we saw standardization, and different specs based on what the ingredients are, I think you would see more engine manufacturers approving higher ratios of bio-fuel. Its an exciting field right now, many major companies are spending millions in research but we're just not there yet despite the market incentives.

Huh, I thought they had created specifications for B100 for fuel. Sure, there's a number of different feedstocks - but professional processes can adjust for that.

Hmm...

ASTM D6751 seems to specify b100 requirements. No idea how complete it would be, given that I'm not willing to pay for it, nor do I have the technical knowledge to assess it.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2007, 08:30:44 PM »

Quote

Don't get me wrong I think Biodiesel has a bright future (especially compared to ethanol)

Umm, yeah, ok.

I'm watching as the price of crude oil approaches $100/barrel this week. Regular unleaded is $3.15/gallon in my neighborhood. I filled up my dual-fuel E85 Chevy S-10 for $2.33/gallon tonight, they just added E85 pumps to the PDQ station next door to my work.

Just exactly when do we plan to wean ourselves off the imported crude teat? China and India aren't going to reverse their increasing consumption trend any time soon. Wink

never_retreat · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:33:40 PM »

I relay thought there would be more people around here playing with this. With as much planning that goes on around here people would be playing with this.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:44:43 PM »

One of the Cenex stations near me, where I tank up on E85, has a biodiesel pump. I noticed the prices aren't that much different than regular diesel. That to me means less of an incentive for folks to fill up on the soybean biodiesel - they probably aren't going to do it just for the environmental benefits. I'm thinking about getting several gallons and giving them to some of my family members with diesel tractors, just to see how well it works on the farm when the temperatures dip below freezing up here.

Firethorn · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2007, 05:51:57 AM »

Quote from: Gewehr98 on November 10, 2007, 04:44:43 PM

One of the Cenex stations near me, where I tank up on E85, has a biodiesel pump. I noticed the prices aren't that much different than regular diesel. That to me means less of an incentive for folks to fill up on the soybean biodiesel - they probably aren't going to do it just for the environmental benefits. I'm thinking about getting several gallons and giving them to some of my family members with diesel tractors, just to see how well it works on the farm when the temperatures dip below freezing up here.

standard B100 currently has a higher gel point than regular diesel, so there's no need to piss off your family members.

Personally, my test for something like that would be to store a gallon or two in a clear fuel can outside and give it a stir or two on cold days.

Looking showed people saying the 'Fuel Filter Plug Point' for soy BD is 30+-5F, for Canola was -5F.

- Heck, that's one guy's way of making fuel that'll work - he freezes his fuel, causing it to precipitate out crystals. He then siphons off the remaining liquid and uses that. The crystals and remaining liquid 'goes into the summer barrel'. I presume the crystals dissolve back into fuel during warmer weather.

Using that as a standard, I wouldn't trust soy BD in a Florida winter (It does freeze every so often), but Canola would work at least as far north as Nebraska except for the harshest winters. A moderate blend should work even up in Canada.

I also happened to see a claim of BD leading to 50% less wear on engine parts. Not sure how accurate that would be.

Oh yeah, and people are installing heating systems - running coolant through or around the fuel tank(depending on courage), to warm up the fuel when the engine is running. Warming wrap around the fuel filter and line leading up to it.

never_retreat · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:16:15 AM »

I figured I'd wake this one back up. Any new info from you folks.

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Author Topic: Bio Diesel B100 (Read 3951 times)