Author Topic: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.  (Read 13121 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/29/20100629arizona-immigration-law-affecting-businesses.html

Here is the link and the story.  I live in Arizona and have since 1981.  I have watched the unemployment rate sky rocket among teens looking for jobs and for the under educated non-Hispanic residents who can't compete with Hispanics for low paying jobs.  I support the legislation which is reducing undocumented worker populations.  Maybe now young men like my stepson can get more than day labor work.

Luis Sanchez and Marlen Ramirez, undocumented immigrants from Mexico, packed up and moved to Pennsylvania this month, taking their three U.S. citizen children with them.

Many will cheer their departure, saying it's a sign that Arizona's new immigration law, which hasn't taken effect yet, is driving out illegal immigrants and potentially saving the state money. But not everyone is pleased over the exodus of Latinos, both legal and illegal, saying their flight from Arizona could hurt businesses, schools and neighborhoods.

"It's basically running us out of business," said Rollie Rankin, 62, of Peoria, who owns several apartment buildings in Surprise, including the one where Sanchez and Ramirez lived with their children. Most of his renters are from Mexico, though Rankin does not ask about their immigration status.

Rankin said seven families have moved since Gov. Jan Brewer signed Senate Bill 1070 on April 23. The families told Rankin they were leaving because of the law. Four of the families moved to Pennsylvania, among them Sanchez and Ramirez and their three children. Another family moved to Tennessee. Two other families moved to Mexico, Rankin said.

"People are scared," said Rankin, who opposes the law. "They have had enough of the crackdown. Back in the old days, it was a wink and a nod; there was tacit approval that they were here. Now, it's an open attack."

Arizona's immigration law makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally. It states that an officer engaged in a lawful stop, detention or arrest shall, when practicable, ask about a person's legal status when reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.

The law takes effect July 29. But many immigrants aren't waiting. Scores already have left. Some headed to other states, and some are moving back to Mexico.

Supporters say their departure will save the state money because taxpayers won't have to cover the cost of education or social services for their children, including those of Sanchez and Ramirez, who were on the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, the state's health-care program for indigents. But the effect of illegal immigrants leaving Arizona is not that clear-cut.

Some school districts that serve large immigrant neighborhoods already have seen sharp drops in enrollment. That could save the state money but hurt individual schools because every student equates to $4,404 in per-pupil state funding. Analysts say the flight of illegal immigrants also could lead to a loss of sales tax and other revenue. And their departure is hurting the apartment complexes and stores where they live and shop.

Latinos represent a huge and fast-growing market. About one in three people in Arizona is Latino, and about 40 percent are 17 or younger. In Arizona, Latinos accounted for 16 percent of all purchases in the state, or $31 billion in spending, according to a report by the Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

Business dwindling

Rankin said he is having trouble renting the empty apartments because many families are waiting to see if the law survives legal challenges. If the law takes effect on July 29, he expects more families to move out.

Rankin said the law comes just as the housing market was starting to improve. He bought seven four-unit buildings in 2001. He lost one building to foreclosure in May and another at the beginning of June. He fears he will lose more buildings if he keeps losing renters and can't pay the mortgage.

"We are probably going to lose the whole thing," Rankin said.

Throughout the neighborhood, many businesses that cater to Latino immigrants also are taking a hit.

Gloria Mayorja, 65, of Peoria, goes door to door selling homemade churros. She was selling 140 a day before Brewer signed the law. Now, she is selling only 50 or 60.

"People are leaving, so they don't want to spend any more money," Mayorja said.

Kim Nuu, manager of a 99-cent store on Dysart Road in Surprise, said most of his customers are Latino immigrants. Sales are way down.

"In December, we are closing," he said. "We aren't making enough money to pay rent. I don't know why, but business is slow."

State Rep. John Kavanah, R-Fountain Hills, who sponsored the House version of SB 1070, predicts the departure of illegal immigrants will reduce the cost of government.

Kavanah cited a study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, an organization in Washington, D.C., that pushes for reductions in immigration, legal and illegal. The organization estimates that the total education, medical and incarceration costs in Arizona because of illegal immigration are more than $2 billion a year.

Illegal immigrants tend to work in low-paying jobs and therefore pay less in taxes than the cost of government services such as public education, AHCCCS and food stamps that they and their families consume, he said.

He also predicts that the state's unemployment rate will go down as illegal workers are replaced by unemployed Americans. Arizona's unemployment rate was at 9.6 percent in May, according to the Arizona Department of Commerce.

Kavanah acknowledged, however, that some businesses will suffer. He said those business are "victims of illegal immigration" because they tapped into a market that was artificially inflated by the federal government's inaction over controlling illegal immigration.

"If there are a few pockets of economic activity that will suffer, that is unfortunate, but I am sure that if their business is worth having because there is a demand for it, then they will survive," Kavanah said. "If their business isn't worth having because there is no demand for their services, then their business will go away. But that is the way it is supposed to be in an efficient economy."

Not a fiscal burden

Judith Gans, manager of the immigration-policy program at the University of Arizona, agreed that some American workers may benefit by illegal immigrants leaving the state. And she agreed that illegal immigrants tend to consume more services than what they pay for in taxes because they work in low-paying jobs. But low-skilled legal workers also consume more in services than they pay for in taxes, she said. If anything, she said, replacing illegal workers may increase government costs because legal workers are entitled to social services that illegal immigrants don't qualify for.

"If we fill all of those jobs with legal, low-skilled, native-born workers, the fiscal burdens don't change. It's inherent in the job itself, not in somebody's immigration status," she said. "It's sort of a myth that if these illegal immigrants weren't here these fiscal burdens would somehow magically change."

The state also will lose the sales taxes paid by illegal immigrants, she said.

Sanchez, who moved to Pennsylvania with his family this month, worked in Arizona as a landscaper and gardener. He got his job using fake documents and paid income taxes as well as sales taxes. He also paid property taxes indirectly through his rent.

He said he knows supporters of the law are glad to see undocumented immigrants like him leave. But he doesn't think he will be easily replaced.

"We work outside under the sun during the really hot weather," said Sanchez, who made $9.80 an hour. "This work doesn't pay very well, and it's very hard work. This is the kind of work that almost all the undocumented do because no one else wants to do it. They say that we are taking away jobs, but it's a lie. These jobs doing yard work - no one wants to do them."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/29/20100629arizona-immigration-law-affecting-businesses.html#ixzz0sFv4c0ly

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 11:42:33 AM »
Quote
Supporters say their departure will save the state money because taxpayers won't have to cover the cost of education or social services for their children, including those of Sanchez and Ramirez, who were on the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, the state's health-care program for indigents. But the effect of illegal immigrants leaving Arizona is not that clear-cut.

Some school districts that serve large immigrant neighborhoods already have seen sharp drops in enrollment. That could save the state money but hurt individual schools because every student equates to $4,404 in per-pupil state funding. Analysts say the flight of illegal immigrants also could lead to a loss of sales tax and other revenue. And their departure is hurting the apartment complexes and stores where they live and shop.

The AZ state population is about 6 million.

From conservative estimates, there are at least half a million illegal immigrants in our state.  Aggressive estimates put it closer to a million.

That means that between 1:6 and 1:12 people in AZ are illegal aliens.  That's between 9-17% of the entire state population.

"Latinos" make up about 1/3 of our total state population.  2 million latinos, approximately.  that means 25-50% of latinos are illegals.

Frankly, that means to me that you have between a 1:4 to 1:2 chance of catching an illegal alien if you have a latino in front of you at the welfare/AHCCCS office/ER or during a traffic stop.

It INFURIATES me that these people are able to get on AHCCCS.

The notion that it "hurts schools" is asinine.  Migrant workers... migrate.  Their kids bounce from school to school, with Spanish as the primary language in the home, and constantly have their education interrupted and re-set to the curriculum of a new classroom environment.  Migrant kids hold the rest of the class back, or otherwise they get put in special classroom environments that cater to those living conditions (which is very costly).  It may hurt those types of teachers and teacher aides, but the point of education is not to provide jobs.  It's to educate.  If those jobs aren't needed... good bye.  We're saving tax dollars.  That's a win.

Illegals tend to shop in spanish-only environments.

If you've never been to Guadalupe, just south of Tempe in Arizona... that's the type of place they shop.  The "good" area just north of Guadalupe has a nice mall and is clean.  Once you enter Guadalupe (literally just a block or two south), chickens run across the street and tejano music is blaring across intersections.  All store fronts are in spanish, hire illegals, and cater to illegals.  Like ChinaTown, but dirty like Juarez or Tijuana.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 11:52:08 AM »
Quote
"We work outside under the sun during the really hot weather," said Sanchez, who made $9.80 an hour. "This work doesn't pay very well, and it's very hard work. This is the kind of work that almost all the undocumented do because no one else wants to do it. They say that we are taking away jobs, but it's a lie. These jobs doing yard work - no one wants to do them."

In a previous house, I used to have a lawn service.

I canceled it when I realized that all the employees were illegals.

I'd love to hire a lawn service.  But I won't, as long as that type of industry is the safe haven of illegals, either for subcontracting or direct hire.  So, I do my own yard.  I don't want to do the weeding and maintenance of my front yard, but I will continue to do so as long as Sanchez and his cohorts continue to be here.

Heck, I'd love to hire a bi-weekly maid service to come in and do little things like mop and dust that I just don't do (often) because I'm a single guy with a pretty decent sized house to maintain all on my own.  But I won't, because previous experience with those services show me that subcontracted employees are illegals.

Just me, AZRedhawk44, doing the jobs I won't let illegals do.  Because the businesses that hire the illegals won't retain lawful employees.
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Firethorn

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 11:53:19 AM »
This is an adjustment.  In any adjustment of this magnitude there are winners and there are losers.  The question becomes one of 'do more people win more than the losers lose?'

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 12:00:42 PM »
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undocumented immigrants
;/
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MillCreek

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 12:06:10 PM »
I am going to be really interested to see long-term economic data on this.  When you look at the Arizona state economy as a whole, not just government spending, will the economy gain or lose as a result of this law?  The best of all possible worlds is for government spending to decrease, while the private retail/services economy increases.  I await the actual data, not projections, with eagerness.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 01:23:52 PM »
I await the actual data, not projections, with eagerness.

you said a mouth full

will make or break not only the state but the credibility of certain groups and their agendas as well

It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 01:46:41 PM »
I await the actual data, not projections, with eagerness.

you said a mouth full

will make or break not only the state but the credibility of certain groups and their agendas as well



The presence of illegal alien workers is of little consequence to overall economic output (GDP, GDP per sate).  The fact is, they produce so little economic output-wise, it will be difficult to measure their absence.  Just about any other economic phenomenon of note will blot out any possible loss of economic output. 

For instance, if the economy picks up in the coming year or two, it will completely overwhelm any possible loss of output due to illegals being displaced from AZ.  In this case, it would be inaccurate for those who are against illegal alien labor to crow, "We got rid of the illegals and our economy started to grow.  Woohoo!"

OTOH, if it does not pick up, the pro-illegal alien labor folks will be incorrect to say, "The reason the economy is still in the dumps is because we dumped our 'undocumented special people of color who made really great nannies and made us feel good about ourselves when we called political opponents racists' over the side.  Racists!"

They produce little, are paid less, and send a goodly proportion of that pay back to Mexico.
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MillCreek

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 03:24:03 PM »
The presence of illegal alien workers is of little consequence to overall economic output (GDP, GDP per sate).  The fact is, they produce so little economic output-wise, it will be difficult to measure their absence.  Just about any other economic phenomenon of note will blot out any possible loss of economic output. 


If you use AZ's numbers up above, with a range of 1 in every 6-12 Arizona residents is illegal, and a substantial proportion of that number is working on the economy, then taken in the aggregate, that is a substantial chunk of economic output. 

If the population ranges from 500,000 to 1,000,000, then assume you have 200,000 workers who earn $ 8 per hour.  Multiply that by the 2080 hours of a typical work year: 200,000 x $ 8 x 2080 = $ 3,328,000,000 before taxes and deductions, or $ 16,640 per worker per year.  Not that much per individual, but it adds up in the aggregate.   Not exactly chump change.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 03:25:15 PM »
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Judith Gans, manager of the immigration-policy program at the University of Arizona, agreed that some American workers may benefit by illegal immigrants leaving the state. And she agreed that illegal immigrants tend to consume more services than what they pay for in taxes because they work in low-paying jobs. But low-skilled legal workers also consume more in services than they pay for in taxes, she said. If anything, she said, replacing illegal workers may increase government costs because legal workers are entitled to social services that illegal immigrants don't qualify for.

"If we fill all of those jobs with legal, low-skilled, native-born workers, the fiscal burdens don't change. It's inherent in the job itself, not in somebody's immigration status," she said. "It's sort of a myth that if these illegal immigrants weren't here these fiscal burdens would somehow magically change."

No, Judith, it is not a myth. You are conveniently overlooking the fact that a great many illegals (dare I say "most"?) send as much of their income to Mexico as they can ... thus removing that money from the cash flow of United States enterprises essentially permanently. They also don't pay taxes.

Ever stop by a Western Union service counter? There's a form to wire money within the U.S., and another form to wire money to other countries. And then there's a special form specifically for sending money to Mexico ("Dinero en Minutos"). Now, WHY would a big company like Western Union make up a special form for sending money to one country? Perhaps because a LOT of people are doing so.

Give those same jobs to Americans, and the money stays in the U.S.
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 03:36:06 PM »
If you use AZ's numbers up above, with a range of 1 in every 6-12 Arizona residents is illegal, and a substantial proportion of that number is working on the economy, then taken in the aggregate, that is a substantial chunk of economic output. 

If the population ranges from 500,000 to 1,000,000, then assume you have 200,000 workers who earn $ 8 per hour.  Multiply that by the 2080 hours of a typical work year: 200,000 x $ 8 x 2080 = $ 3,328,000,000 before taxes and deductions, or $ 16,640 per worker per year.  Not that much per individual, but it adds up in the aggregate.   Not exactly chump change.

1. Which does not have taxes paid on it.
2. Most of which goes back to Mexico.
3. Which is no where near the economic drain they cause via accidents w/out insurance, free hospital care, increased crime etc.
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 03:49:43 PM »
^^^^ I'm sorry, I don't see your quoted data to support your assumptions.  

People pay sales tax, gas tax, excise taxes on goods and services and property tax is factored into your rent or mortgage.  I note that the illegal immigrant quoted in the article paid income tax.

I have no idea how much income is personally consumed and spent in the US as opposed to remittances back to their native country.  Clearly at least some portion is spent in the US.

As to your final point, I would expand that to include probably most of the population on welfare.  Based solely on my own limited and anecdotal observations here in Washington, the illegal immigrant population seems to work more and harder than many of the native-born population who rely upon welfare.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 04:01:21 PM »
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If you use AZ's numbers up above, with a range of 1 in every 6-12 Arizona residents is illegal, and a substantial proportion of that number is working on the economy, then taken in the aggregate, that is a substantial chunk of economic output.  

That's a lot of roadway congestion during rush hour.

If 200k vehicles suddenly disappeared off our rush hours, we'd need a lot less road maintenance and people would get home faster.  There'd be fewer accidents.  There'd be less need to perform Eminent Domain to seize land to build new highways (Loops 202 and 303 in PHX, for example), schools or hospitals.

And since these people either get paid cash, or steal an SSN and then write "exempt" for withholding, and don't participate as full consumers in our economy (sending significant portions of their pay out of the country), they don't contribute to the tax base as the tax base is designed.  Yeah, they buy gas and pay excise tax.  A little bit of sales tax, too.  But they don't pay nearly as much as a real member of American society.  
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makattak

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 04:07:09 PM »
^^^^ I'm sorry, I don't see your quoted data to support your assumptions.  

People pay sales tax, gas tax, excise taxes on goods and services and property tax is factored into your rent or mortgage.  I note that the illegal immigrant quoted in the article paid income tax.

I have no idea how much income is personally consumed and spent in the US as opposed to remittances back to their native country.  Clearly at least some portion is spent in the US.

As to your final point, I would expand that to include probably most of the population on welfare.  Based solely on my own limited and anecdotal observations here in Washington, the illegal immigrant population seems to work more and harder than many of the native-born population who rely upon welfare.

Ok. Total US illegal aliens= 11 million

Number in AZ= over 500,000 (I'm going to say 550,000 cause I like that math).

That's 5% of the US illegal population. (at minimum)

As of 2006, the numbers I can find for remittances to Mexico from the US is $23.1 Billion. (http://www.dallasfed.org/research/swe/2007/swe0704b.cfm)

Not all of that will be from illegals, but also, not all illegals come from Mexico, so let's call it a wash.

5% of 23.1 Billion is $1.16 Billion.

Your numbers estimate they made $3.33 Billion. So over one third of everything they earned goes to Mexico. (minimum estimate)

Edited to correct numbers. Thanks C&SD!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 10:54:52 PM by makattak »
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 04:10:28 PM »
^^^^ I'm sorry, I don't see your quoted data to support your assumptions.  

You show me yours I'll show you mine.  :P Try living in Arizona and working on the border for a while, your anecdotal data will be a bit different.
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2010, 04:11:27 PM »
^^^ How interesting.  Have you noticed a difference in living in Arizona vs. living up here in Washington in that regard?
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BReilley

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2010, 04:21:29 PM »
If you've never been to Guadalupe, just south of Tempe in Arizona... that's the type of place they shop.  The "good" area just north of Guadalupe has a nice mall and is clean.  Once you enter Guadalupe (literally just a block or two south), chickens run across the street and tejano music is blaring across intersections.  All store fronts are in spanish, hire illegals, and cater to illegals.  Like ChinaTown, but dirty like Juarez or Tijuana.

The Guad!  I *hate* driving through there - I drive a big box truck for a battery company - and will go several miles out of the way to avoid it.  Between the stop signs every thirty feet(slight exaggeration), somewhat creative observation of traffic laws, and the town-wide speed limit of 25(no joke), it takes probably ten minutes to drive the two miles across the town.

"Undocumented immigrant" makes me want to spit.  That makes it sound like some border guard just lost their papers when they crossed.  Sanchez and Ramirez, the people mentioned in the first news article, had about a page devoted to their trip from Arizona to Pennsylvania(with some pictures taken along the way, even).  They each jumped the border illegally, got jobs using what the paper called "fake papers"(i.e. perpetrated identity theft against a legal citizen), and they have a ten-year-old daughter who was born here, so they've been in America for a good while.  They have made a life here for years, and are only now realizing that they have been fugitives since they arrived.  That's like stealing a car, driving it(with license plates and tags stolen from someone else) for ten years, then getting mad because the cops want to run your plates when you get pulled over for speeding.

Sheesh.  Government wants a serial number on  every cartridge in my pistol, but nobody "up there" gives a damn that there are millions of people floating around with zero legitimate records.

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 04:33:13 PM »
Gee, I wonder what sort of fee or percentage is charged to process remittances?  I wonder if that would be a nice business to be in. 
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HankB

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 05:07:23 PM »
Frankly, when some business or apartment owner complains that he's losing money due to the departure of illegal aliens, I think undercover police ought to go interview him while posing as reporters and get him to admit that he knew he was employing/renting to illegal aliens.

The admission (on video, of course) should be used as evidence in his criminal conspiracy trial.
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2010, 05:26:08 PM »
Excluding the government services that they soak up, liberals are saying that it is acceptable to have a class of people that is paid less than .gov minimum, most illegals are paid less than minimum.  That is a form of slavery.  That being said, liberals are saying slavery in the United States is acceptable for some class of people.
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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 05:32:00 PM »
Quote
Government wants a serial number on  every cartridge in my pistol, but nobody "up there" gives a damn that there are millions of people floating around with zero legitimate records

Oh, they give a damn.
Republicans want them here to support big businesses that hire them.
Democrats want them here so they can legalize them, get them on the government dole or into unions and have millions of new Democrat voters.
Don't believe for a second that "they" are ignoring the problem.  "They" don't care about the problem part of it, and are only seeing what they can get out of the situation.
JD

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Jocassee

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 06:18:18 PM »
I await the actual data, not projections, with eagerness.

you said a mouth full

will make or break not only the state but the credibility of certain groups and their agendas as well



In a sane world, yes. However we all know that it's impossible to get a straight answer even from empirical data. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics go together for a reason. The spin will never stop and They will never play fair.

It's going to get worse before it gets better.
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As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

roo_ster

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2010, 06:41:02 PM »
If you use AZ's numbers up above, with a range of 1 in every 6-12 Arizona residents is illegal, and a substantial proportion of that number is working on the economy, then taken in the aggregate, that is a substantial chunk of economic output. 

If the population ranges from 500,000 to 1,000,000, then assume you have 200,000 workers who earn $ 8 per hour.  Multiply that by the 2080 hours of a typical work year: 200,000 x $ 8 x 2080 = $ 3,328,000,000 before taxes and deductions, or $ 16,640 per worker per year.  Not that much per individual, but it adds up in the aggregate.   Not exactly chump change.

I take issue with some of those assumptions:
    2080 = 52 weeks x 40 hours/wk
    Migrant workers don't have work that % of the year
    Many illegals go home part of the year
    Assuming $8/hr for illegal non-skilled labor is...generous

But let us let them stand for the sake of argument and my time.

Add one assumption:
This all occurred in 2007-ish (most data is 2007, some is 2008-2009)

Sources:
http://www.bea.gov
http://quickfacts.census.gov


Illegal alien income total: $3,328,000,000
AZ income total: $218,639,267,000
IA income pct of AZ total: 1.52%

Arizona's cut of America's GDP was $245.952 billion.
AZ per capita GDP: $38,658
AZ per cap income: $34,365
Ratio, per cap gdp/per cap income: 1.12
IA AZ GDP, given factor of 1.12: $3,743,753,207
IA proportion of GDP: 1.52%
Avg AZ GDP growth, 1997-2007: 5.23%


Like I wrote above, the loss of IA labor would be lost in the weeds

Assuming all IA were gone from AZ, other employees would fill the gaps, some companies would go belly-up, and the resources they used put to use more efficiently. 

Then, there are the many factors on the upside that would make the loss of IA labor even less noticeable: Fewer IA kids & anchor babies in the gov't schools, fewer folks on the road (with or without auto insurance), fewer folks hoovering up cash, time, & space at the local hospitals, etc.



Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MillCreek

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 07:21:00 PM »
I got curious on the subject of remittances, and found some interesting data here: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPROSPECTS/Resources/334934-1199807908806/Top10.pdf

In 2007, the top ten countries in terms of the amount of received remittances were:

India
China
Mexico
Phillipines
France
Spain
Belgium
Germany
UK
Romania

_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

gunsmith

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Re: Arizona losing illegals and business and school are whining.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2010, 07:33:44 PM »
illegal aliens cost me my job as a taxi driver & they're from plenty of countries, not just mexico ... I'm stopping now because it make me sore. :mad:
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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