Kerry & the Troops

[richyoung]

Funny, I thought it was DEMOCRATS that actually have sex with the pages

typical of the liberal press to leave off the obvious... if you do a google on Jerry Stubbs you will find that Dan Crane, a republican was censured at the same time, for the same thing. There are enough lunatics to go around for all the parties.

For those having trouble GRASPING THE OBVIOUS, your remedial homework is three pages on "Compare And Contrast the Response of the Democratic Party to the Studds Scandal with the Response of the Republican Party to the Foley Scandal"

You guys seem to have nothing better to do than ad homenin attacks... see ya.

Don't let the screen door ht ya where the Good Lord split ya...

btw: do you label everyone you disagree with as 'blackburn'?

just Blackburn...

[lumpy]

What was the last book on economics you read?  Have you ever read any?  Can you understand that levels of debt are not important, that the important measure is debt in relation to the whole GDP?  Do you comprehend that the deficit is lower as a percentage of GDP now than under Clinton?

Actually gunrunner... you'd be incorrect and in your koolaid drinking frenzy, you've given support to the argument this administration is failing...

As a percent of GDP the deficit was higher when Clinton took office... but that would ignore the fact when Clinton left office... the percent relative to GDP was about 7% lower. But then again, I'm a troll, wtf do I know.

A simple wikipedia check could have shown you that.

Seems to me that a good definition of a troll might be one that ignores the actual data to prove their point.

[lumpy]

Let us examine why you are accused of Blackburnism or trolling.

1. Claiming that Kerry was telling a "joke that was obviously about Bush."  There are only two explanations for such a ridiculous claim:
You telling a lie to stir up controversy.
You have been completely brainwashed by Kerry (and some of the media's) outright lies.  (It's certainly well beyond spin.)
Neither trolling nor kool-aid consumption make for good contributions to the board.

2. Apparently registering to our little chat board just to argue about Kerry, while claiming that the Kerry issue is a distraction.  Then making uninformed claims about what we are discussing on the board, along with a trumped-up charge that we are conducting a "hatefest."  Then, oddly, asking to be reported.  At no point do you make any comments on other threads that discuss issues that might be important.  You decline to start another thread to discuss such issues.
 
Other than the request to be reported on, this is classic Blackburn. 

3. Then some talk about neo-cons, usually a sign of paranoid dementia.

One of Blackburn's favorite bits.

4. Complaining of ad hominem attacks when plenty of substantive argument is going on and the personal criticism has been rather mild.

Another favorite tactic of Blackburn.

Actually I quite flattered that you've given this so much thought, unfortunately you'd be incorrect on all counts. I actually came here from THR because I figured that the political chat was better suited for here. If you'd have answers to my jamming problem with CCI standard velocity ammo on my MK2, amybe I'd spend more time here. I have no clue who blackburn is and I could care less. Did you notice the irony about your pointing out of my complaining of an ad hominem in an ad homenin attack?

Back to Kerry... to the poster that was wondering what Boehner has to do with anything, I'd ask where was your outrage when Bush joked about WMD's, when he said that historically Iraq would be a comma, when Boehner implys that the problems in Iraq are not the fault of Rumsfeld they are the result of the generals on the ground... they have a word for that, hypocrite.

In Kerry's prepared text and in the context of his speech... he was obviously talking about the president. Like Jon Stewart says "imagine, Kerry screwed up a joke". If find need to think that Kerry thinks the troops are idiots, feel free.

[lumpy]

For those having trouble GRASPING THE OBVIOUS, your remedial homework is three pages on "Compare And Contrast the Response of the Democratic Party to the Studds Scandal with the Response of the Republican Party to the Foley Scandal"

the democrats immediately censured Studds and Crane. The republican leadership knew about this for at least 1 year... you point is?

[client32]

fistful,

When I first heard about the comments, it was on local news.  The lead in was something like "Is it 2006 or 2004, Bush criticizes Kerry over remarks"  Then the next the is the now infamous sentence "Learn or get stuck in Iraq."  Then it went to everyone's protest of the remarks.  My first reaction was that he was taking a jab at Bush.  After following the last Pres election and a few thing Kerry has done afterwards, I just assumed that he was taking another jab at calling Bush stupid.

Now I'm not saying that I totally believe that he just screwed up a joke, just that it was my first reaction.  At best, he screwed up a joke, initially refused to apologize and rather blame Republicans for twisting his message and not debating issues while then calling anyone who thought the message was something other than a joke about Bush stupid.  At worst, he insulted everyone who was/is in Iraq stupid and then said the same about anyone who caught on to the original intent.

Again, I would like to see the transcript of the speech.

[lumpy]

the actual prepared text of the speech (it was released prior to the event)

"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush

[client32]

the actual prepared text of the speech (it was released prior to the event)

"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush

Can you give me a link to this?  I am really interested in reading the entire speech.  And while attempting to find the text, I did run across the "getting us stuck" thing here:http://incontext.blogmosis.com/archives/033095.html#033095 and here:http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/2006/10/tiny_words_can_.html

[lumpy]

I found that quote here...

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061102/OPINION01/611020370/1008

I will see if I can find all of it.

[lumpy]

here is the full speech...

http://www.vindy.com/more/bertram/kerry-prepared.php

it may help if some of the other people on this thread actually read it.

[lumpy]

his words as spoken...

Yesterday I was in the state of Texas  as you all know, President Bush used to live there  now he lived in a state of denial [cheering]. A state of deception.

Im glad to be here with you, I really am, thank you for the privilege of coming here. Were here to talk about education, but I want to say something before that  you know education  if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart  you can do well. If you dont, you get stuck in Iraq [laughter].

[The Rabbi]

There's a huge difference between "you get stuck in Iraq" and "you get us stuck in Iraq."  I wonder if he knows what he said.

[lumpy]

There's a huge difference between "you get stuck in Iraq" and "you get us stuck in Iraq."  I wonder if he knows what he said.

I completely agree. Hence the "botched" part of the botched joke.

[The Rabbi]

Of course if he really botched it, he would have apologized right away.  The fact that he didnt tells me he actually meant what he said, even after the fact.

[Perd Hapley]

So Kerry's comment was "an obvious Bush joke" if you knew the words he was supposed to say, but never actually said.   If the laughter occured before he mentioned the President's name, that would imply the audience took it the same way everybody else did - as a joke about those who join the military out of desperation.

[lumpy]

I would venture to guess that anything he would have done would not have satisfied you... But I agree, he should have apologized sooner.

Just curious... given the claim that we went into Iraq to keep the 'smoking gun from taking the form of a mushroom cloud' do you find Bush's parody of looking for WMD's offensive? How about history referring to the war as a comma?

Do you find Boehner's implication offensive that it's the Generals below Rumsfeld and not Rumsfeld who are to blame for the state of Iraq?

[lumpy]

that would imply the audience took it the same way everybody else did - as a joke about those who join the military out of desperation. \

fortunately the audience had the benefit of context... he was talking about Bush.

If your implication is that democrats think that soldiers are stupid then I would suggest you are full of much of the same stuff being suggested on this thread. but I'm sure it's not.

[Perd Hapley]

Lumpy,

The logical fallacy of ad hominem occurs when one substitutes personal criticism for valid argument.  To say that I committed ad hominem assumes that I was somehow required to respond to what you have to say.  This is not the case.  Others have done plenty of that.  If I was focusing on you, it was not to discredit what you say.  The validity of your arguments does not depend on who you are or on your motives.  

My criticism was meant for an entirely different purpose.  Not to discredit your arguments, but to take issue with your constant slandering of this forum and its members.  And apparently without sufficient knowledge of us, given your handful of posts.  Are you here to contribute to the board, or to be a troll, someone with no other purpose but to anger people?  

Some examples:

Sorry to interupt your hatefest... but it strikes me that the majority of the bush supporters here are drinking the koolaid that keeps the focus on non-issues and of the real ones.

you focus on this because the neocons are losing on the actual issues.

Again, you folks seem to want to focus on Kerry because he's not running? because he's a loser? because the right loses on the actual issues?

It gets boring when the only thing one can do here is respond to those that are attacking someone suggesting that actual issues get discussed.

[richyoung]

For those having trouble GRASPING THE OBVIOUS, your remedial homework is three pages on "Compare And Contrast the Response of the Democratic Party to the Studds Scandal with the Response of the Republican Party to the Foley Scandal"

the democrats immediately censured Studds and Crane. The republican leadership knew about this for at least 1 year... you point is?

The republicans knew about E-MAILS - NOT the INSTANT MESSAGES, which were:

A.  A setup, and
B.  sat on by DEMOCRATS since JULY, thereby making THEM the ones knowingly putting children at risk for political advantage:  their attempt at an 'October Surprise".

Yeah, the Democrats "censured" Studds - then gave him a standing ovation, and re-elected FIVE TIMES!  Plus lets talk about how Bill CLinton not only was screwing the help, but commuted Reynolds sentence for... ACTUALLY having sex with underage campaign worker - the same think Foley lost his job for even TALKING about.

[Perd Hapley]

If your implication is that democrats think that soldiers are stupid then I would suggest you are full of much of the same stuff being suggested on this thread.

Did you happen to read any of Ezekiel's posts to this thread before you started casting aspersions on all of us?  I don't know his political affiliation, but I have heard and read many, many similar comments from leftists.  I.e., Pat Tillman was stupid to go into the military, etc.  

As I said before, if you really want to discuss substantive things, why not respond to some other threads or start your very own?

[lumpy]

A.  A setup, and
B.  sat on by DEMOCRATS since JULY, thereby making THEM the ones knowingly putting children at risk for political advantage:  their attempt at an 'October Surprise".

You got a source for that?

ABC states that the IM's came to them from pages after they posted the emails on their blog. If you'd like to revise history for the sake of argument you might want to look for work at NewMax.

The fact is pages were warning each other about Foley for years. The republican head of the page committee knew about Foley's 'interest' in pages as far back as 2001 (whihc was kept from other members of the committe)... it was brought to Hastert's attention last year... they then of course were so outraged they asked him to run again.

Did you happen to read any of Ezekiel's posts to this thread before you started casting aspersions on all of us?

it works both ways

[doczinn]

It may be that it was supposed to be a joke about Bush. More's the pity:

[Bush's] four-year average was 77; Kerry's 76.

[Kerry] got four Ds in his freshman year, Bush received one D in his four years, in astronomy

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/benedetto/2005-06-10-benedetto_x.htm

[lumpy]

I'm guessing Yale isn't too pleased with the publicity from either of them... It's making state college look better all the time.

[Perd Hapley]

Did you happen to read any of Ezekiel's posts to this thread before you started casting aspersions on all of us?

it works both ways

1.  What do you mean?

2.  Did you read his posts or not?  Will you not admit that a great many people and some of them Democrats most certainly believe that soldiers are stupid?

[Lee]

"It works both ways"

Is that a Foley quote?

[lumpy]

1.  What do you mean?

2.  Did you read his posts or not?  Will you not admit that a great many people and some of them Democrats most certainly believe that soldiers are stupid?

First sorry for my rushed response before I was heading out of the office. What I meant was that from the first moment I posted on this board many of you assumed I was a troll (whatever that means)...

I got responses like

How does Kerry's Kool-Aid taste?  I honestly didn't believe anybody would fall for that idiocy.

Congratulations, Lumpy.  You fooled me.  It took me a second to realize that even YOU don't really believe it was "obvious Bush joke."

So, are you going to keep being distracted, or are you going to start a thread on the Iraq war, the VA, etc.?  Why are you in this thread, anyway?

Ok, Blackburn.  Speaking of black, I like your avatar.  Did you see my thread on black animals at the Humane Society? 

Now, back to the hatred.  Where was I?

If you dish it out and can handle getting it back you will fit in around here.

Only the strong survive. The weak melt down.

apparently not. 

If you remain, you have marked yourself as a troll and will be treated as such.
Good Bye!!!!! And don't let the door hit you....

1. Claiming that Kerry was telling a "joke that was obviously about Bush."  There are only two explanations for such a ridiculous claim:
You telling a lie to stir up controversy.
You have been completely brainwashed by Kerry (and some of the media's) outright lies.  (It's certainly well beyond spin.)
Neither trolling nor kool-aid consumption make for good contributions to the board.

Do you comprehend that the deficit is lower as a percentage of GDP now than under Clinton?

Don't let the screen door ht ya where the Good Lord split ya...

Did you happen to read any of Ezekiel's posts to this thread before you started casting aspersions on all of us?

Actually I disagree with much of Ezekiel's postings... While we may fall on the saide side of the center line I am one that believes (to paraphrase) everyone is entitled to the facts, just not their own facts. Regardless, one thing these boards give conclusive evidence of is that there is no monopoly on lunatics on either side.

"It works both ways"

Is that a Foley quote?

you and Kerry have the lame joke thing nailed. 

I'd point out that I am the guy that posted what Kerry actually said in context and his prepared speech. I do not believe that I've posted anything that is factually incorrect... and if I did I would appreciate knowing about it. If I offended anyone I appologize, but like many of you I am passionate about my position.

btw: Somewhere along the line several you seem to think I'm a Kerry supporter. Actually I think Kerry was the worst candidate that could have run in 04 ... I gave my money to Clark. I thought I made that clear in my first post.