Cop or Soldier?

[41magsnub]

*yawn* A3.

Are you saying an A3 would stop the round or that particular track in the pic is an A3?  The pic is of at best an A2 <-spent a lot of time driving and TC'ing an M113A2.  I got to drool on an A3 once that the reservists we were training had.

[kgbsquirrel]

Are you saying an A3 would stop the round or that particular track in the pic is an A3?  The pic is of at best an A2 <-spent a lot of time driving and TC'ing an M113A2.  I got to drool on an A3 once that the reservists we were training had.

I'm saying refit that to the A3 standard. Personally I'd also for the band tracks off the proposed A4 as well.

[BlueStarLizzard]

16 out of 21.

Last I checked, the mil. does not put forgrips on they're general issue M16s. Dead give away.
I would maybe have less of an issue with cops using miltary grade stuff if it was actually military quality, meaning duck tape on their stocks and no tacticooling.
But bridgy has it right, cool the "war on drugs" and use civilian junk with an eye to public image. If the need the armored vehicals, let 'em have stripped former miltary gear, armour only. Truth be told, they'd be MORE functional with semi auto and adapted civilian gear, as they're purpose is to stop crime, not kill the enemy.

I can think of NO reason for a LEO to need a freeking belt fed weapon.

[dogmush]

Last I checked, the mil. does not put forgrips on they're general issue M16s. Dead give away.

Yes we do.  I issued Grip-Pods to an entire transportation Staff unit for my last trip overseas.  The Army is no less vulnerable to cool factor marketing then cops.

ETA 18 out of 21 but I read the thread so I knew about the AT-4.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Yes we do.  I issued Grip-Pods to an entire transportation Staff unit for my last trip overseas.  The Army is no less vulnerable to cool factor marketing then cops.

ETA 18 out of 21 but I read the thread so I knew about the AT-4.

Hmmm...

As wmnorr noted, most of the mil pictures are marines. Dad's buddy (the ex recon guy) said they were getting old m16, no m14s, and nothing fancy. Mind, this was several years ago, but that's what I was going on.

[roo_ster]

I did not take the quiz.  Like seeing kids beat to hell, it is the sort of thing that riles me up.

*yawn* A3.

By the time they retro-fitted armor & tracks, they could have had a nice armored truck that gets quadruple the MPG and costs 1/5 to maintain.

I loves me some tracked vehicles, but no county or municipality LEO with half a brain ought to even take one as a gift due to maintenance issues.

Jamis Jockey has the right answer for that sort of tool.

[roo_ster]

On many of them, the tip off is that the cops will stack a much larger force at an entry way, or otherwise clump together on the streets. The military were usually much more spread out and will have 2-3 in a picture when on the street.

I know several departments that want/need APC's and other military equipment because they are going to be outgunned otherwise in certain situations.

Too many LEO agencies try to make up in hardware what they lack in software just like this ^^^.

The Speshul teams they send out are useful only against unresistant targets or targets that are not much of a threat.  Were they sent out against truly dangerous men, all that clumping, prancing about in front of the objective house's windows, and lack of a quality recon of the objective before rolling up would result in many more LEO deaths.

I suspect LEO management prefers hardware solutions to software solutions (training) because the hardware usually can't walk off with the utility gained for the $$$ spent.  So, they end up with gear-queer SWATties piloting milsurp APCs into houses they haven't reconnoitered while his buddies make for a grenadier's delight.

[cosine]

Anyone else notice that one of the pictures is from the raid that happened a while back in which the cops exhibited extremely poor/unprofessional tactics, and the guy (veteran, I think it was) in the house got shot?

ETA: Yeah, I think No. 4 is from that raid.

[wmenorr67]

Too many LEO agencies try to make up in hardware what they lack in software just like this ^^^.

The Speshul teams they send out are useful only against unresistant targets or targets that are not much of a threat.  Were they sent out against truly dangerous men, all that clumping, prancing about in front of the objective house's windows, and lack of a quality recon of the objective before rolling up would result in many more LEO deaths.

I suspect LEO management prefers hardware solutions to software solutions (training) because the hardware usually can't walk off with the utility gained for the $$$ spent.  So, they end up with gear-queer SWATties piloting milsurp APCs into houses they haven't reconnoitered while his buddies make for a grenadier's delight.

I agree with your assessment that agencies should focus more on training than equipment, but just like in the military, money spent on training isn't "seen."  Meaning that people with the checkbooks like seeing something physical for the money spent.  You can talk training all you want but it usually will lose out to cool guy *expletive deleted*it.

[209]

18 right.

As far as the NG comments, back when I was still in (1980s), our state was adamant about not issuing weapons to the guard.  We trained with riot batons.  At the time, our CG made the comment, "Our Guardsmen will not have loaded rifles until one is dead in the street."  Gave us all a warm feeling. 

But we did have "counter-sniper teams" trained up.  Three to four man teams with radios, all with M16s and the designated shooter armed with an M21.  My company had the Scouts assigned to it and we had five M21s in inventory.

I don't know what the current ROEs are.

[wmenorr67]

18 right.

As far as the NG comments, back when I was still in (1980s), our state was adamant about not issuing weapons to the guard.  We trained with riot batons.  At the time, our CG made the comment, "Our Guardsmen will not have loaded rifles until one is dead in the street."  Gave us all a warm feeling. 

But we did have "counter-sniper teams" trained up.  Three to four man teams with radios, all with M16s and the designated shooter armed with an M21.  My company had the Scouts assigned to it and we had five M21s in inventory.

I don't know what the current ROEs are.

Current ROE's differ from state to state and for the reason you are called up.  Usually when you are activated at the state level on orders from the Governor you are giving law enforcement powers and reasonable person in regards to in defense of you and others.