Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Blakenzy on August 13, 2012, 07:52:56 PM
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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/08/13/Fast-and-Furious-Issa-sues-Holder/UPI-55711344837700/
Now there is a law suit being brought upon Holder. Let's see how long he can hide behind "executive privilege".
It seems there is a lot more to F&F than just "tracking guns to the Drug Cartel higher-ups". The US Justice department may have been cozily in bed with, actively assisting the Sinaloa Cartel in getting the upper hand over other players... in exchange for info?
http://www.businessinsider.com/fast-and-furious-guns-sinaloa-cartel-2012-8
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I'm tired of the blatant lies:
Fast and Furious, conducted from late 2009 to early 2011 by Phoenix-based ATF agents, was part of a strategy begun during the George W. Bush administration to combat Mexican drug and organized crime cartels.
It was NOT begun under GWB.
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I'm tired of the blatant lies:
It was NOT begun under GWB.
From what I've read, while there are some similarities, there are many more differences between Wide Receiver and Fast & Furious.
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Wide Receiver (2006-2007), the Medrano Case (2008) and Fast & Furious (2010 or late 2009 thru Jan 2011) had one person in common: Phoenix ATF SAC Bill Newell identified by many as the chief advocate of walking guns to try to get evidence on cartel heads.
The Hernadez Case (2007) was an example of "controlled delivery"--contacting the Mexicans with a heads-up to interdict the guns. When that failed, ATF HQ William Hoover ordered gunwalking stopped 6 Oct 2007.
That PDF linked in the Business Insider link ( http://narcosphere.narconews.com/userfiles/70/Pleadings.Sinaloa.Zambada.pdf ) reads like the plot of last season of Sons of Anarchy.
The federal government has become a self-perpetuating leviathan juggernaut and the blame-Bush, blame-Obama, blame-the-next-figurehead misses the point: Phoenix ATF Field Office and Phoenix District USAO engaged in some pretty stupid stuff and the White Houses were probably unaware until it rose to the level of embarrassment triggering the usual cover-up. Notice how the Clinton Admin. handled Waco (full-tilt protection) versus Ruby Ridge (GHW Bush's baby) when both incidents involved lies by ATF, over-reaction by FBI HRT Commander Dick Rogers and many of the same ATF-USMS-FBI HQ personnel and decision makers. Federal agencies develop a culture that is passed down in training to the next generation of agents regardless of who is President.
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He will go to jail when Corzine does.
Don't hold your breath.
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He will go to jail when Corzine does.
Don't hold your breath.
That is the whole truth. The investigation was just dropped by the Justice Department concerning John Corzine. Political buddies count because they keep you out of jail.
And.... the Democrats accuse the Republicans. I am so sick of this stuff.
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The federal government has become a self-perpetuating leviathan juggernaut and the blame-Bush, blame-Obama, blame-the-next-figurehead misses the point: Phoenix ATF Field Office and Phoenix District USAO engaged in some pretty stupid stuff and the White Houses were probably unaware until it rose to the level of embarrassment triggering the usual cover-up. Notice how the Clinton Admin. handled Waco (full-tilt protection) versus Ruby Ridge (GHW Bush's baby) when both incidents involved lies by ATF, over-reaction by FBI HRT Commander Dick Rogers and many of the same ATF-USMS-FBI HQ personnel and decision makers. Federal agencies develop a culture that is passed down in training to the next generation of agents regardless of who is President.
Any why in tarnation do we have these alphabet 'law' enforcement agencies that are beholden to noone?
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Question for our local legal weasels (hey now, at least they don't get sucked into jet engines!): If Romney gets elected, can he strip executive privilege away from Holder?
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Question for our local legal weasels (hey now, at least they don't get sucked into jet engines!): If Romney gets elected, can he strip executive privilege away from Holder?
Would he? I'm guessing no.
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Question for our local legal weasels (hey now, at least they don't get sucked into jet engines!): If Romney gets elected, can he strip executive privilege away from Holder?
IIRC, only POTUS can claim EP.
So, the answer is YES.
Will he? Maybe.
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On the slim chance that Romney is elected, I suspect he will be replacing Holder with his own nominee. That kind of makes the discussion moot. The AG is a political appointee.
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I think that Presidents don't rat out on Presidents (or their close staff). It's a self preservation tactic, as a guarantee that he will not be prosecuted after he leaves office he turns a blind eye at everything his predecessor may have allegedly done. Obama did it for W, and the vicious cycle carries on.
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I think that Presidents don't rat out on Presidents (or their close staff).
Probably true which goes to the argument that prosecutions even during the presiden't term of office are more political than criminal in the minds of Congress. However, Obama started out wanting to rat out quite a few of the Bush folks. I hope the truth comes out and I don't care where the chips fall whether it be during the Obama tenure or after.
I think Romney has an excellent chance of winning this time. His message will gain strength like a snow ball gaining size and momentum. I frankly don't believe the polls anymore. But the news people wouldn't have much to talk about during an election cycle if there were no polls.
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I suspect that Obama will grant a blanket pardon to Holder when he leaves office (if there is such a thing). IANAL
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Fast and Furious Congressional hearing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nML-_obI9t8
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Why, just today, Obama stated on UniVision that Fast and Furious was begun under......wait for it....you know it is coming....you can feel it in your bones.........
"The Previous Administration"
And as soon as the current AG found out about it, he discontinued it.
Yep, that is what he said.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/president-obama-falsely-claims-fast-and-furious-program-begun-under-the-previous-administration/
bob
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:facepalm:
Well, I don't much approve of the "previous administration" nor do I intend to cut it any slack, but you have to admit that W. has indeed become the Fistful of US politics, minus the lovable charisma. =D
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Didn't we call fistful "George W Fistful" for awhile?
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It won't go away?
Want to bet?
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Like a necropost, Fast and Furious keeps coming back...
Now massacres in Mexico are being tied to it.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/report-claims-to-have-found-57-more-guns-tied-to-operation-fast-and-furious/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29 (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/report-claims-to-have-found-57-more-guns-tied-to-operation-fast-and-furious/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29)
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Like a necropost, Fast and Furious keeps coming back...
Now massacres in Mexico are being tied to it.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/report-claims-to-have-found-57-more-guns-tied-to-operation-fast-and-furious/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29 (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/01/report-claims-to-have-found-57-more-guns-tied-to-operation-fast-and-furious/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29)
Thought we already knew that. Or are you saying new massacres are occurring with F&F guns?
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And according to Rush Limbaugh (listened to him on my way back from the Lawyers office), Univision did a huge expose on F&F. Not as a whitewash job, but got the facts accurate and called out Eric Holder and Obama to come clean.
"I think up to 100 Mexicans might have died (in Operation Fast and Furious) and also American agent Brian Terry," Univision reporter Jorge Ramos said to President Obama during a recent interview.
"There's a report that 14 agents were responsible for the operation, but shouldn't the attorney general, Eric Holder ... have known about that? And if he didn't, should you fire him?"
Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/100112-627744-univision-reveals-fast-and-furious-murders.htm#ixzz286dweS6S
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Here's the preview for the documentary of the above name. Putting it in Politics section for the obvious course the discussion is like to take.
http://youtu.be/_NDT7am2VWw
Curious to see what the take of our current domestic regime and/or the media will be. My bet is silence.
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My bet is silence.
Along with deflection, obfuscation, denial and bald face lies.
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They are just doing the journalism American journalists won't do.
[^^^May be first time this meme is factually correct.]
More seriously...it seems Univision and Al Jazeera, with wholly alien motivations and perspectives, are more fair and objective in their reporting than CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, and many other MSM outlets.
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I hear one of the big cartel big-whigs down south got picked up by federales, and he was caught with US guns that track back to the F&F operation.
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got the facts accurate and called out Eric Holder and Obama to come clean
So is this racist when Univision does it? ???
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-eatdrink062.gif&hash=6351767d570339129b1d7a62ffad11efc1c95342)
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Univision mentions Operation Castaway.
Same administration, same activity, different countries, this time in South America.
And the Press is mum.
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Obama appoints wife of Univision owner to UN diplomatic post
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/26/3022322/obama-appoints-wife-of-univision.html
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Topics merged.
This is now the thread for all things Fast and Furious and the associated scandal.
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Obama appoints wife of Univision owner to UN diplomatic post
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/26/3022322/obama-appoints-wife-of-univision.html
Probably desperately trying to get Univision to shut up about F&F.
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There is no way that this Republican party is going to touch two black guys. Everybody knows this.
Obama and Holder are going to get away with it because the American people are too obedient. They are too respectful of authority.
And the left understands this completely.
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Obama appoints wife of Univision owner to UN diplomatic post
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/26/3022322/obama-appoints-wife-of-univision.html
So Joan Rivers is our new US Representative to the UN? I thought we already had an Ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice. Who needs to be fired for lying on not one, but five, Sunday morning news/talk/politics shows.
But that's another scandal....
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They are just doing the journalism American journalists won't do.
[^^^May be first time this meme is factually correct.]
More seriously...it seems Univision and Al Jazeera, with wholly alien motivations and perspectives, are more fair and objective in their reporting than CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, and many other MSM outlets.
Isn't Univision an American company? Or is our Univision just an American branch of a Latin American firm? ???
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Let us ask ourselves if Jim Lehrer is going to bring this up tonight.
And then let us ask ourselves if Romney will.
If the answer is no to both, we are wasting our time watching this charade.
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Let us ask ourselves if Bob Schiefer is going to bring this up tonight.
And then let us ask ourselves if Romney will.
If the answer is no to both, we are wasting our time watching this charade.
I'm almost tempted to watch the "debate" just to see if Obama uses a teleprompter. Almost. (you know he received the questions ahead of time)
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Romney is the bear in the cage. If he can't break the bars and go wild, this thing is a waste of time. We don't need any more tame bears on bicycles with an R on their backs.
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Romney is the bear in the cage. If he can't break the bars and go wild, this thing is a waste of time. We don't need any more tame bears on bicycles with an R on their backs.
Then you may as well not watch
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My morbid curiosity is well developed; in fact it's become an addiction. Besides, I'm an American, and Americans are nothing if not always a bit hopeful.
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Isn't Univision an American company? Or is our Univision just an American branch of a Latin American firm? ???
Does it matter where it is incorporated if it is alienated from American culture and sympathy?
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Does it matter where it is incorporated if it is alienated from American culture and sympathy?
You mean, like the rest of Big Media?
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/11/atf-whistle-blower-fired-claims-furious-complaints-played-role/
Whistle blower has been officially been served his pink slip...in the middle of a Denny's parking lot. The reason: "Lack of candor". ;/
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He didn't "play ball".
I guess a pink slip is better than a tragic car accident or a previously undiagnosed heart condition suddenly flaring up. [tinfoil]
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/11/atf-whistle-blower-fired-claims-furious-complaints-played-role/
Whistle blower has been officially been served his pink slip...in the middle of a Denny's parking lot. The reason: "Lack of candor". ;/
Best thing that could have happened to him. The lawsuit will set him up for life.
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He didn't "play ball".
I guess a pink slip is better than a tragic car accident or a previously undiagnosed heart condition suddenly flaring up. [tinfoil]
That's a couple years down the road.
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That's a couple years down the road.
Before any damaging testimony...
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About to punch up the video and watch it for the first time. This should be interesting. [popcorn]
http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-whistleblower-cefalu-parking-lot-termination-secretly-recorded?CID=examiner_alerts_article
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I'm convinced that the only way to beat the ATF is for gun owner/freedom loving types infiltrating its ranks.
"What was that Agent Schmucktelly? Did I just hear you telling coercing this shop owner to sell guns illegally?
You are under arrest..."
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I'm convinced that the only way to beat the ATF is for gun owner/freedom loving types infiltrating its ranks.
"What was that Agent Schmucktelly? Did I just hear you telling coercing this shop owner to sell guns illegally?
You are under arrest..."
I'm still waiting for Holder and other high-ranking F&F officials to suffer some "unfortunate accident" at the hands of [plausible deniability] one of Agent Terry's or Agent Zapata's friends. It hasn't happened yet. OTOH, one of the AZ border sheriffs (Larry Dever) did die recently in a suspicious one-car accident. I suspect he was assassinated -- but not sure if it was by Mexican drug lords or by our own federal agents.
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but not sure if it was by Mexican drug lords or by our own federal agents.
Is there really a distinction any more?