Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Waitone on November 14, 2008, 04:25:33 PM
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So the debate is how soon will the new president move against state concealed carry laws.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?status=article&id=292204370724337&secid=1501
Obama Misfires On Concealed Carry
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted 4/4/2008
Gun Control: Barack Obama says he won't take folks' guns away as long as they're hunters. But when the hunted are his constituents, well, that's different: He opposes concealed carry and the right to self-defense.
There's something about an election that brings out the sportsman in a Democratic presidential candidate. Recall John Kerry's sudden fondness for hunting four years ago.
And speaking in Idaho earlier this year, Barack Obama told the crowd, "We got a lot of hunters in the state of Illinois, and I have no intention of taking away folks' guns."
Except he does.
In a 1996 questionnaire, Obama wrote that he "supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." He says now that the survey was filled out by an aide who misrepresented his views. Yet his record since then is consistent with that view. Never mind that Illinois and the other 49 states have a lot of two-legged predators.
Illinois resident Hale DeMar was prosecuted by the town of Wilmette for using a handgun to defend his home in 2003. Wilmette had imposed a ban on the possession of handguns, in effect making the town a gun-free zone.
To correct the situation, several Illinois state legislators introduced SB 2165 to protect the right of self-defense for residents like DeMar. Obama voted against the bill.
That self-defense bill protecting the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens such as DeMar passed the Illinois state Senate and was enacted into law over the governor's veto (and Obama's opposition).
It's no surprise, then, that Sen. Obama has come out in opposition to concealed-carry laws. In anticipation of an April 16 debate in Philadelphia on the anniversary of the Virginia Tech shootings, Obama told the Pittsburgh Tribune: "I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, 65.7% of the U.S. population lives in the 39 right-to-carry states, and there's no indication such laws have turned our neighborhoods into the O.K. Corral. To the contrary, all the stats we've seen show a steep decline in murders and violent crimes after a state adopts a right-to-carry law.
Virginia is one of those states, but the only one who had the right to carry last April 16 was Seung-Hui Cho. He shot 32 people to death on a Virginia Tech campus that had declared itself gun-free.
One wonders if Cho would have even walked on campus with a gun if he knew his victims would be able to defend themselves. Or how the story would have been different had professor Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor who lost his life barricading a classroom door so his students could escape, had been able to fire back.
On the subject of the total ban on gun ownership in the District of Columbia, a Second Amendment case before the U.S. Supreme Court, the Nov. 23 Chicago Tribune said Obama believes in the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.
As pointed out by John Lott, senior research scientist at the University of Maryland, the D.C. murder rate fell three times faster than surrounding Maryland and Virginia in the five years before the 1977 ban, but rose nearly four times faster in the five years afterward. Since 1977, there has been only one year (1985) when the D.C. murder rate was lower than in 1976.
Obama's Web site says: "He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting" (emphasis ours).
Not, apparently, for you to protect your wife and children.
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So the debate is how soon will the new president move against state concealed carry laws.
My guess would be never.
Unless you have some info besides a 7 month old article that mentions a survey from 12 years ago?
I'm not saying he supports CCW, but it seems an even lower priority than an AWB and even that happening is debatable. People are way too worked up about things that aren't even proposed yet.
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I am more concerned about an AWB along with maybe smaller changes added as riders to other bills. I wouldn't put it past them to go for everything, but I hesitate to think they would go beyond round 1 on changes.
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My guess would be never.
Unless you have some info besides a 7 month old article that mentions a survey from 12 years ago?
I'm not saying he supports CCW, but it seems an even lower priority than an AWB and even that happening is debatable. People are way too worked up about things that aren't even proposed yet.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=16246.0
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My guess would be never.
Unless you have some info besides a 7 month old article that mentions a survey from 12 years ago?
I'm not saying he supports CCW, but it seems an even lower priority than an AWB and even that happening is debatable. People are way too worked up about things that aren't even proposed yet.
You are kidding, right? Right?.
From his website, buried under 'Urban Policy':http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crime-and-law-enforcement (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crime-and-law-enforcement)
Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
What, precisely is "debatable" in that paragraph?
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What, precisely is "debatable" in that paragraph?
So you believe an AWB is 100% already guaranteed from the Obama administration? I'm not saying the support isn't there, but it is not a foregone conclusion that it will actually pass, or even be brought forward. If it is attempted and fails do you really think they'll move right on to banning CCW so that they lose worse than in 94? I'm saying an AWB would happen before any shenanigans with CCW and I doubt anything successful would even happen with an AWB.
Why are people wasting their time crying about things that aren't happening? When something actually happens that we can fight against, sure make some noise and do everything you can. But railing against possible things Obama might do is ridiculous.
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Don't confuse Ronnyreagan with facts, Xavier. ;)
Fact is, Obama is on record as beign 100% behind a permanent reinstatement of the '94 AWB, with no sunset clause.
It's somewhat interesting (in the Chinese sense of the word) that his website took down that little tidbit shortly after the election.
That doesn't mean it's no longer on their agenda...
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Don't confuse Ronnyreagan with facts, Xavier. ;)
Yeah, sorry. I'll get with the program and join in with the irrational panic, that will certainly make everything OK. :cool:
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I have to fall in the "watch for actual, I don't know, ACTIONS, before freaking out" camp.
We can work ourselves into a daily lather chicken-littling about "what-ifs", but that energy could be used much more practically by, say, making sure our state and federal legislators are aware that we are watching them on the topic...
Taking a non-shooter to the range...
Writing intelligent, well-reasoned and for G-d's sake proofread letters to the editor...
Stuff like that.
Or we can go preach to the converted online ad nauseum about how "them Demonrats gonna be takin our gunz". :rolleyes:
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Taking a non-shooter to the range...
Mike and I did that tonight. Took a guy I bike with and his girlfriend to the range and introduced him to a variety of guns such as 38specials, 357mag, 41mag, 44mag, 9mm, 45acp, and my AR-15. Knowing I was a shooter, he approached me about handgun info for home defense and general shooting. I invited him to the range, it was all downhill from there. ;)
The guy likes the 45acp and AR-15, the girl liked Mike's "pre Model 10".
Between the 4 of us, we burned up about 400 rounds of handgun ammo and 120 in the AR.
Chris
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That's two more voices on our side when the time to talk to legislators comes.
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Writing intelligent, well-reasoned and for G-d's sake proofread letters to the editor...
Let's not be unreasonable here. :lol:
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"Yeah, sorry. I'll get with the program and join in with the irrational panic, that will certainly make everything OK."
Which is better in the long run?
Panic, or a near catatonic state of blissninny "Everything is all right now and it's always going to be all right!"
Both a pretty damned scary.
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Yeah, sorry. I'll get with the program and join in with the irrational panic, that will certainly make everything OK. :cool:
Step away from the bong. We have an antigun president-elect, an antigun vice-president elect, an antigun Speaker of the House, and if the voter fraud in Minnesota goes as planned, we might have a 60-seat Democrat takeover that can ram anything through they damn well please. Obama's opinions as to concealed carry are quite well known...he wanted a national ban for all but retired police and military.
If that doesn't concern you, you probably don't even carry a firearm daily for self defense.
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I am more concerned about an AWB along with maybe smaller changes added as riders to other bills. I wouldn't put it past them to go for everything, but I hesitate to think they would go beyond round 1 on changes.
I agree with you on the riders....I expect gun control to be attached to every bill from the budget to health care "reform" to military spending....
...and he'll use every executive power (BATFE, OSHA, etc.) to push gun control as well.
I'm not panicking....but I AM preparing for a 4-year siege on my SD rights....
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If that doesn't concern you, you probably don't even carry a firearm daily for self defense.
Never felt the need to but even if I wanted to, Wisconsin doesn't allow it.
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Never felt the need to but even if I wanted to, Wisconsin doesn't allow it.
Then you have no stake in this game. I do.
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Wiskonsin is an open-carry state.
http://opencarry.org/wi.html
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Since when?
Wisconsin is both a shall-issue and an open-carry state.
Um. MB?
You REALLY need to brush up on your states before coming to the US. What do you think that top state in red is right in the middle?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onebillionbulbs.com%2Fimg%2Fus-map.gif&hash=e178a691a6081ce5ead7ca5f6a3882c767bbe3d9)
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Ah. I'm an idiot. Normally I'm better at this map stuff.
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And fixed. It is after all an open-carry state.
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That's not red, it's orange.
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O'Bama to Move Against State Concealed Carry Laws
Gee, before the election he was hollerin' about how it should be up to the states and cities to determine their own level of RKBA. Now he wants to use the Fed to override the states ?
;/
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"Yeah, sorry. I'll get with the program and join in with the irrational panic, that will certainly make everything OK."
Which is better in the long run?
Panic, or a near catatonic state of blissninny "Everything is all right now and it's always going to be all right!"
Both a pretty damned scary.
If you can point to blissninny speech I'd like to see it.
What I see are people not wanting to act like frightened children as mere chicken-little "what-ifs" are raised.
You know, being adults?
Until Obama is in office, and until he and the anti-gunners move against guns, there is nothing to object to except smoke and supposition.
That's moronic behavior.
Once he makes his particular defined actual move, THEN it is appropriate to move to counter.
You can't seriously be stating that we all don't already know what those potential moves are.
We have seen them all before, why bother restating them ad nauseum for the next two months like a pile of pants-wetting Captain Obvious's?
;/
Thinking about it, at this point these "nothing new to report" news article postings tread very close to "Obama Derangement Syndrome" as they are speculative bitching.
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We can safely predict the agenda. This is a good time to start planning our response strategy.
To the lawyers in the community, is there some way the 9th Amendment can help us? (Innate right to self-defense)
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No one is asking you to join an "irrational panic."
I do, however, remember very distinctly the reactions among many people when Bill Clinton first became president.
Many, FAR too many, adopted your attitude of "it will never happen, you're just chicken little screaming about the sky falling, etc."
Their attitudes were that even talking about such a possibility was paranoid and delusional.
And then, within two years, we had both the Brady Bill AND the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.
The only thing people want is for people like yourself to get your head out of your ass and recognize that Obama is as, if not more, hostile to firearms than Clinton was.
If you still don't think it's possible for a new firearms act to be passed, take a look at the composition of this Congress and the composition of the 1994 Congress that passed those pieces of legislation. There are significant similarities in terms of numbers (in fact, the 2008 election will turn back the Congress clock almost PRECISELY in terms of numbers as to what it was prior to the 1994 election), and in the personalities, political beliefs, and agendas of the majority leaders in both houses of Congress.
Anyone who believes that Democrats "saw the light" regarding gun control after the 2000 election is a fool.
Anyone who sits on his ass and says "Oh, it's OK, nothing will ever happen" is worse than a fool.
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There is not the least doubt in my mind that Obama as president will be the worst thing Second Amendment supporters have ever experienced from past presidents. He has the keys and the belief. We want Change! Let's hear it!
I fear being legislated into a criminal when I have never done anything more illegal than exceed the speeding limit. I'm sure you heard about the questionaire that the future Obama administration has released for job seekers. You think being a member of the NRA, a member any gun forum, having a CCW permit, etc will win any points with them. They even want you to list all your screen names that you use on the internet. Change is happening!
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Pull my head out of my ass?
Nice Irwin. ;/
If you seriously think, after all my time on here and THR, that I am under any illusions about the state of gun rights in this country or what the stakes are from this administration than you are the one with the cranio-rectal inversion going on. I expected better.
What I am trying to make clear is that,
yes, we know it will almost certainly be bad; but
A) we don't know the exact form the attack will take place; and
B) we already know the appropriate counters in any event, as we've already used them before; and
C) Obama isn't in office until January.
Coming into APS, a place full of gun owners and fairly activist ones at that, and posting "OMG OMG OMG, Obama is a threat to gun rights!" is as ridiculously redundant and idiotic as running into a physics lab and yelling "OMG OMG OMG, objects in motion will tend to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force!".
Why f-ing bother working yourself into a lather at this point? It is reality, we are all already well aware of it, we will deal with it appropriately at the appropriate time.
If you can name just one useful thing we can do, other than the few I already posted or similar, until Obama makes his move, name it.
If not, why are we going into preemptive "Obama Derangement Syndrome".
All I ask is that people use intelligence, not witless, puerile emotion.
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Um. MB?
You REALLY need to brush up on your states before coming to the US. What do you think that top state in red is right in the middle?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onebillionbulbs.com%2Fimg%2Fus-map.gif&hash=e178a691a6081ce5ead7ca5f6a3882c767bbe3d9)
Either I've just become color-blind....or that map isn't showing what you think it's showing....
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>Then you have no stake in this game. I do. <
I REALLY hope you're not saying that because we here in Cheeseland aren't allowed to carry. Seriously.
As far as open carry here: depends on where you are. In many places, openly carrying a firearm will result in a charge of Disturbing the Peace (or similar). And you can't leave it in the holster in your car (improper transport of a weapon)
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What we can do is remind our legislators--especially the Democrats--what Bill Clinton said in his autobiography about him making one of the biggest mistakes by pushing the AW ban. We might also send those legislators emails with links to news stories about gun sales being up 15% after the election.
If they don't understand what those two simple points mean, then they're in trouble in 2010.
Bill Clinton could probably help us by reminding Obama about the 1994 loss of congress to the Republicans because of gun control. However, my guess is that he'd like to see Obama make some big mistakes so that Hillary gets another shot.
As for Cheeseheads not having a stake in concealed carry, many of us have our non-resident permits from other states, so we have a dog in this fight, too.
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Until Obama is in office, and until he and the anti-gunners move against guns, there is nothing to object to except smoke and supposition.
That's moronic behavior.
Once he makes his particular defined actual move, THEN it is appropriate to move to counter.
I hope that's not how you play chess/shogi.
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I hope that's not how you play chess/shogi.
What part of,
What I am trying to make clear is that,
yes, we know it will almost certainly be bad; but
A) we don't know the exact form the attack will take place; and
B) we already know the appropriate counters in any event, as we've already used them before; and
C) Obama isn't in office until January.
makes you think I don't know how to plan ahead?
Posting in a gun forum about suppositions and old news is not being a Chessmaster or taking the offense.
:rolleyes:
Again, if you are waiting until now to figure out what to do when he makes his move, you are already behind the curve.
Preaching fearfully to the choir who are already prepared (that'd be me at least) is the idiocy I'm against.
Furthermore, this:
What we can do is remind our legislators--especially the Democrats--what Bill Clinton said in his autobiography about him making one of the biggest mistakes by pushing the AW ban. We might also send those legislators emails with links to news stories about gun sales being up 15% after the election.
is effective now and, lo and behold, is what those of us not running around like Chicken Little are doing and recommending to others.
That would be the active kind of move of someone with a bent toward strategic thinking.
What the hell happened to abstract reasoning and long-term thinking? =|
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Either I've just become color-blind....or that map isn't showing what you think it's showing....
He's referring to a different map which I removed when he pointed out my mistake.
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What part of,
makes you think I don't know how to plan ahead?
Posting in a gun forum about suppositions and old news is not being a Chessmaster or taking the offense.
:rolleyes:
Again, if you are waiting until now to figure out what to do when he makes his move, you are already behind the curve.
Preaching fearfully to the choir who are already prepared (that'd be me at least) is the idiocy I'm against.
Furthermore, this:
is effective now and, lo and behold, is what those of us not running around like Chicken Little are doing and recommending to others.
That would be the active kind of move of someone with a bent toward strategic thinking.
What the hell happened to abstract reasoning and long-term thinking? =|
Makes sense. I think I misunderstood. I got the impression that you were waiting to take such actions until the day after Obama Inc made things "official" to the public.
I helped out my state by voting to keep Susan Collins in office. It was a success. Then I moved inward to my back yard.
As far as Obama goes, I share media stories large and small with the officials who represent my state and add my thoughts to them. I usually get a fairly honest reply as a bonus.
I misunderstood your comments and mistakenly thought you were kicking your feet up until he starts really pushing his agenda.
My bad.
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>Then you have no stake in this game. I do. <
I REALLY hope you're not saying that because we here in Cheeseland aren't allowed to carry. Seriously.
As far as open carry here: depends on where you are. In many places, openly carrying a firearm will result in a charge of Disturbing the Peace (or similar). And you can't leave it in the holster in your car (improper transport of a weapon)
I was talking to someone from there who didn't think Obama would ever work towards pushing a national ban on concealed carry, then sign it.
Since someone from Wisconsin already can't carry concealed, no, they don't have a stake in that game. They already can't carry concealed.
I don't live in Wisconsin, and would not live in any state where I could not carry concealed. I carry daily. It's my right of self defense against an armed attacker. So I have a lot more at stake than someone who already chooses to live in a place where they already cannot do that. You can't lose what you've never had, and someone from such a place who tells me to relax, that it won't be taken away...it just doesn't make any sense. They don't have anything that could be taken away, themselves, to be able to argue about it.
Understand?
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As Monkeyleg already pointed out: many of us have out of state permits for when we travel. That gives us one reason to "have a stake in this".
We ARE trying to fix the laws in this state to be more intelligent. Kinda hard to do if Obama manages to ban CCW. Second reason we have a stake.
Not even going after the "you choose to live there" arguement. Some of us don't have a whole lotta choice in where we live (for a variety of circumstances)...
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If you can name just one useful thing we can do, other than the few I already posted or similar, until Obama makes his move, name it.
Unfortunately the most useful thing we could do failed a couple weeks ago......vote against two of the most anti gun politicians in my 57 year lifespan. I remember the Clinton ban. I remember all the regressions to my gun rights over the past 40 odd years. Those who didn't take the RKBA issue of the past election as a top priority and rather voted to help sow the winds of change with their vote are about to reap us a whilrwind.
Many posters are right though. What's done is done. Now is the time to regroup and begin the fight anew. It won't be easy. It IS coming. Make no mistake about it. No chicken little here. Just being awake and smelling the coffee. Start acting now. Many great suggestions have already been made. Let's roll.
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In one respect, the running around with the head cut off act is a waste of energy.
But, I can see a benefit to getting all gun owners slapped into consciousness about the peril our rights are in. You don't get the apathetic to get off their duff with nuanced talk.
For example, the environmental group leaders have been shoveling both hype and bull___t by the bargeload about all sorts of topics to get & keep their constituency riled up.
I don't say we should lie and partake in such grand disinformation campaigns as have the environmental group leaders, but keeping the pot simmering / informing gun owners about BHO's proclivities right now will pay dividends later when those folks are already up to speed and time does not have to be wasted making the case to our own.
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Definitely, but the gun owners on this board don't need it.
They need to get away from the keyboard and rile up the ones who aren't part of the online community. The ones who own but seldom shoot, or carry where legal, the ones who aren't going to act until action becomes necessary and maybe not even then.
I was a little harsh in my tone and I apologize for that.
I just dislike preaching to the chorus on principle.
Really grinds my gears.
I even still love Irwin. =D
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As a lifetime Wisconsin resident, I'd like to see somebody openly carry off of their personal property.
It would be interesting, to say the least. They could probably do it in Baraboo or Rhinelander, but definitely not Madison or Milwaukee.
I'm ok with Manedwolf not living here. I'd prefer he didn't, after blurbs like that. Life isn't all about guns, but we Cheddarheads don't live in a defenseless vacuum, either. Living in Condition Red or even Orange 24/7 will burn one out like a candle lit at both ends, regardless.
Monkeyleg and my other fellow Wisconsin residents on APS have posted on several occasions about the Wisconsin CCW efforts. We've been up against a brick wall of one sort or another for a long time, even though we've come closer in recent attempts. That doesn't mean we've decided to roll over and play dead - not by a long shot.
I had a CCW permit in Kalifornia and Florida. I didn't pack everyday, it was purely my prerogative, and I understood the risks and ramifications of my choices. If I were to get mutilated or killed because I chose not to carry on a given day, I'd discuss it with St. Peter afterwards. ;)
While we don't have CCW permits here in Wisconsin (yet), I'd hardly call us irrelevant. And I still have a bedside AK-47, regardless of what Obama wants us to have or not have. The man is bad news for gun owners, regardless of the sheep's clothing, and it's going to be a rough 4 years at a minimum.
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People are way too worked up about things that aren't even proposed yet.
We already know it's part of their agenda. And yes it's already been proposed amongst themselves. They just haven't had a chance to pitch it to us yet.
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As a lifetime Wisconsin resident, I'd like to see somebody openly carry off of their personal property.
There have been two instances I'm aware of in the last several months.
The first involved a guy in Milwaukee who carried openly for a couple of weeks before a Walmart manager asked him to leave. When he was back in his truck, he unloaded the gun and put it in a case. About that time a squad rolled up and he was arrested for disorderly conduct.
The DA's office didn't quite know what to do with the case. I called the NRA, and they got together with the attorney from the Vegas case. Last I heard the DA's office was still trying to figure out what to do. (Note to self: find out what happened).
In another case a guy in West Allis was planting trees in his yard while carrying. He never left his yard, which is fenced in. Nevertheless, he was arrested for disturbing the peace. What was strange about this one was that he had been recording everything all day, including the conversations with the officers at his home and at the station. Something just didn't feel right. I don't know if the NRA went anywhere with that one or not.
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I just don't see how Obama would get a national CCW ban. Under what powers?
Of course, I'm also totally confused as to how the law that passed under Bush's watch giving all retired police legal CCW in all 50 states is legal.
The only other areas of law where I'm aware of the Feds dictating how state's should behave are in traffic laws. Mandatory seat belts, DUI limits, minimum age to purchase alcohol, etc. They get away with that by withholding Federal gas tax money, but they're still not universal. New Hampshire doesn't have a seat belt law on the books. I'm sure there are other anomalies out there.
If the SCOTUS shot the government's argument in Lopez just how in the heck is a national CCW ban going to work?
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Of course, I'm also totally confused as to how the law that passed under Bush's watch giving all retired police legal CCW in all 50 states is legal.
That one is what cemented my opinion of most cops being a tribe looking out for their own interests.
They promised that if people supported that, they'd help push for everyone else to get the same. People supported them.
Then, when they got it, it suddenly became "Oh, ordinary citizens don't have a need for this." :mad:
I would like to take it away. If we don't have it, no reason they should.
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Heh... I actually open carried my .357 for about a week. Every night, Spoon & I would go out for a walk, and it was on my hip the entire time. Even talked to a few cops during those strolls: they never noticed (or if they did, decided not to comment)...
Of course, I'm in neither Madison or Milwaukee.
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"I expected better."
Funny, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking earlier.
I sort of expected people to have a longer memory than 7 years. I was wrong.
I sort of expected people to recognize the massive change that will occur in Congress. I guess I was wrong.
I sort of expected people to look at a politician's entire history on a subject, not just his most recent "God I had better say this to try and dupe a segment of the population that turned on the party last time" platitudes. I most definitely was wrong.
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I would like to take it (national CCW for police) away.
If Obama's administration gets, or even tries for, a national CCW ban we just might have to. I don't see how there's any federal authority to influence the state laws on the matter. Might as well tear down the quasi pro-gun law before Obama even gets a chance.
Of course such a move wouldn't have traction with any pro-gun organization, save for maybe the GOA or JPFO. Hell, half the people here probably want to burn me at the stake for suggesting it.
Thing is, that law (CCW for police) is going to stand and never be challenged in the courts. The Brady Bunch doesn't have the money or numbers for that kind of activism, nor does it really run counter to their agenda. It doesn't run counter to the NRA's agenda either.
What it does do, though, is gives the anti-gun folk a hand-hold in point out the "gun lobby's" hypocrisy. If Obama get his old national CCW ban dream codified in law we'll have a hard time arguing that the Federal government has no authority in the matter.
Just food for though.
The fact of the matter is we're looking at, what, 38 states with shall issue and 48 states with CCW permits? With only two states supporting the anti-CCW stance it's hard to believe that we couldn't eventually get a Constitutional amendment negating any anti-CCW laws that the Obama administration passed. Sure, it's a long road, but it's there.
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The fact of the matter is we're looking at, what, 38 states with shall issue and 48 states with CCW permits? With only two states supporting the anti-CCW stance it's hard to believe that we couldn't eventually get a Constitutional amendment negating any anti-CCW laws that the Obama administration passed. Sure, it's a long road, but it's there.
I have to agree. There's only a handful of states left that are anti-CCW, the usual suspects. EBR's are an easier target, I'd think Obama would hit that first. If EBR's were out of the way and the courts ignored Heller in refusing to overturn such a ban, sure, he'd move onto harder targets. Yes, it's worrisome that he's anti-CCW, but he's anti ANY 2A despite the Fudd friendly rhetoric.
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"I expected better."
Funny, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking earlier.
I sort of expected people to have a longer memory than 7 years. I was wrong.
I sort of expected people to recognize the massive change that will occur in Congress. I guess I was wrong.
I sort of expected people to look at a politician's entire history on a subject, not just his most recent "God I had better say this to try and dupe a segment of the population that turned on the party last time" platitudes. I most definitely was wrong.
Again, you realize who you're talking to right?
I'm 37 years old, I've voted pro-gun in every election since I turned 18, lived through the shall-carry revolution and both terms of the Clinton administration. I could dictate a book on the freaking history of firearms laws in this country from memory.
Not feeling a need to freak out about it, in a venue dedicated to the concept, in seemingly daily postings relating the same tired news (however true) from the beginning of the g-ddamn campaign, hardly demonstrates ignorance of the subject nor avoidance thereof, deliberate or otherwise.
Jesus Mike, do we really need to post Obama's voting record weekly? Do you really think everyone on APS isn't more than aware of the situation and stakes?
Why not make it a sticky then?
-edited to remove abbreviated curses, the blasphemy shall remain
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Wait a minute... Obama's not pro gun?
*ducking for cover*
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Wait a minute... Obama's not pro gun?
*ducking for cover*
You aren't helping you, go tell Spoon to hit you for me. =)
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The fact of the matter is we're looking at, what, 38 states with shall issue and 48 states with CCW permits? With only two states supporting the anti-CCW stance it's hard to believe that we couldn't eventually get a Constitutional amendment negating any anti-CCW laws that the Obama administration passed. Sure, it's a long road, but it's there.
Except that Chicago politics has gone national, with lots of crooked appointees from Chicago, thus "what's good for Chicago" will be good for the whole country.
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With the full out propaganda assault that just occurred resulting in Obama's election it will be interesting to see if the media uses the same technique to change public opinion in favor of a President Obama's policies.
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The normal way that the Federal government accomplishes X at the state level is to pressure the states by threatening to withhold massive Federal funds unless the states comply. I wouldn't put it past this administration and Congress to attempt something like that.
However, bigger picture, I think Obama is going to have to broaden his base of support while dealing with massive economic issues. Therefore my guess is that he will avoid "third rail" issues during his first term. If he is elected to a second term, the economy is in better shape, and the democrats still control Congress, all bets are off.
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However, bigger picture, I think Obama is going to have to broaden his base of support while dealing with massive economic issues. Therefore my guess is that he will avoid "third rail" issues during his first term. If he is elected to a second term, the economy is in better shape, and the democrats still control Congress, all bets are off.
Avoid third rail issues? HA.
http://www.change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda (http://www.change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda)
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I just dislike preaching to the chorus on principle.
Are you sure about that? If you think gunowners, even those on this and the other boards, are a chorus, you are mistaken. There are members who don't believe that Obama has or ever had an ill-thought concerning the 2nd Amendment, and others would would vote for an AWB in a heartbeat. Threads like this are beneficial in educating the former, and letting the latter identify themselves.
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Carebear seems a bit worked up, but I see another side to the argument.
We may be preaching to the choir here, but this choir is comprised of new believers, and as an open forum, the non-believers or agnostics view such threads, too.
The message is going out to all who click on the subforum, and the thread in turn.
It may torque you to a degree, but it may also open an eye to somebody who just didn't know...