Author Topic: "Pathological Science" Article  (Read 3459 times)

Ben

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"Pathological Science" Article
« on: November 03, 2007, 05:47:31 AM »
Long, but interesting read.

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http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/global_warming_as_pathological.html


November 02, 2007
'Global Warming' as Pathological Science
By James Lewis
Trofimko Lysenko is not a household name; but it should be, because he was the model for all the Politically Correct "science" in the last hundred years. Lysenko was Stalin's favorite agricultural "scientist," peddling the myth that crops could be just trained into growing bigger and better. You didn't have to breed better plants over generations, as farmers have been doing for ages. It was a fantasy of the all-powerful Soviet State. Lysenko sold Stalin on that fraud in plant genetics, and Stalin told Soviet scientists to fall into line --- in spite of the fact that nobody really believed it. Hundreds of thousands of peasants starved during Stalin's famines, in good part because of fraudulent science.

There is such a thing as pathological science. Science becomes unhealthy when its only real question ---  "what is true?" --- is sabotaged by vested interests, by ideological Commissars, or even by grant-swinging scientists. Today's Global Warming campaign is endangering real, honest science. Global Warming superstition has become an international power grab, and good science suffers as a result.

Freeman Dyson, one of the great physicists alive today, put it plainly enough in his autobiography:

    "...all the fuss about global warming is grossly exaggerated. Here I am opposing the holy brotherhood of climate model experts and the crowd of deluded citizens who believe the numbers predicted by the computer models. ... I have studied the climate models and I know what they can do. ... They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world that we live in."

When the scientific establishment starts to peddle fraud, we get corrupt science. The Boomer Left came to power in the 1970s harboring a real hatred toward science. They called it "post-modernism," and "deconstructionism" --- and we saw all kinds of damage as a result. Scientific American magazine went so far as to  hire a post-modern "journalist" to write for it. John Horgan became famous for writing a book called The End of Science, but never seemed to learn much about real science. It was a shameful episode.   

The explosive spread of AIDS occurred when the known evidence about HIV transmission among Gay men was suppressed by the media. The medical science establishment did not speak up. HIV is most easily transmitted through anal intercourse, because the anus bleeds far more easily than the vagina. So one Gay man simply passes blood products straight on to the next.  Sexually transmitted plagues have been studied scientifically ever since syphilis arose several centuries ago. We know how to limit their spread, but many Gay men have died as a result of political suppression of scientific medicine. The spread of AIDS was partly a self-inflicted wound.

Pathological science kills people and ruins lives. Such fake science is still peddled by the PC establishment in Europe and America. Global Warming is only the most recent case. Rachel Carson's screed against DDT caused malaria to re-emerge in Africa, killing hundreds of thousands of human beings.  Those human-caused disasters have never been discussed honestly in the media, and rarely if ever in science journals. The DDT scandal is still suppressed.

In Britain, much of the alarmism about Mad Cow disease was never justified scientifically. It was pure, math-model-driven science fiction, just like Global Warming. But it was pushed very vigorously by the British science establishment, which has never confessed to its errors, and is therefore likely to make the same ones again. In politicized science, public hysteria actually builds careers; in real science, it tends to ruin careers. Years after the Brits realized that Mad Cow was a false alarm, the French admitted that Oui, Messieurs, we had ze Mad Cow, naturally, but we are not hysterique, comprenez vous?  Besides, cow brains are a great delicacy, and one only lives once. Vive la France!  Right across the Channel in Britain, farmers were required by law to destroy and bury hundreds of thousands of sheep and cows. It was an economic disaster, and all because of wildly alarmist science.

Britain is even more vulnerable to politicized science than we are, because medicine is controlled by the Left. That is a huge chunk of all science in the age of biomedicine.  But the British Medical Journal and even the venerable Lancet are no longer reliable sources. Their political agenda sticks out like a sore thumb. It was The Lancet that published a plainly fraudulent "survey" of Iraqi civilian casualties a few years ago --- the only "survey" ever taken in the middle of a shooting war. As if you can go around shell-shocked neighborhoods with your little clipboard and expect people to tell the truth about their dead and wounded: Saddam taught Iraqis to lie about such things, just to survive, and the internecine fighting of the last several years did not help. The whole farce was just unbelievable, but the prestigious Lancet put the fake survey into the public domain, just as if it were real science.  It was a classic agitprop move, worthy of Stalin and Lysenko. But it was not worthy of one the great scientific journals. Many scientists will never trust it again.

Pathological science has erupted most often in the last hundred years in the field of education, where "whole-word reading" fraud undermined the reading abilities of whole generations of American kids. Young adults can no longer tell the difference between "it's" and "its," even though their grandparents learned it in grammar school. The field of education is gullible and fad-prone, and is very unhealthy as a result. That's why new teachers are taught to peddle PC --- ideology is all they have.

Pathological science has erupted in fields like psychology and medicine, but not often in the hard sciences. In physics, Cold Fusion claims were discredited very quickly. Now, Global Warming is a fraud simply because climatology is not a hard science. That's what Freeman Dyson, who knows what physics can do, meant by saying that the models "do not begin to describe the real world that we live in."

The climate is not "just basic physics," as some people claim. Basic physics is great for understanding CO2 in lab jars and planets in space, but it has no complete accounting for a wooden kitchen chair, because wood is far too complex a material. Nobody has a complete physical understanding of wood --- there are too many different cellular layers, molecules, and unknown interactions, all produced by a genetic code that is just beginning to be understood. We only know the genomes for a few plants, and we don't know how their genes are expressed in cells and proteins.  So forget about applying basic physics and chemistry to kitchen chairs. Plants and trees are hypercomplex, like the climate.

Modern science fraud seems to come from the Left, which makes it especially weird because the Left claims to be all in favor of science. Marxism itself was a scientific fraud, of course. In 1848 Marx and Engels claimed to have a "scientific" (wissenschaftlich) theory of history. They predicted that communism would first arise in England, because it was the most advanced capitalist nation. (Not) They predicted that centralized planning would work. (Not) They predicted that the peasants and workers would dedicate their lives to the Socialist State, and stop caring about themselves and their families. (Not).  They predicted that sovietization would lead to greater economic performance. (Not). And then, when seventy years of Soviet, Chinese, Eastern European, and North Korean history showed Marx's predictions to be wrong, wrong and wrong again, they still claimed to be "scientific." That's pathological science --- fraud masquerading as science.

(Current Marxists are more anti-scientific, because they've finally figured out that the facts don't support them, but they still haven't given up their fantasy life. Millenarian cults never give up, even when the facts go against them.)

Scientists love to cite the historic "martyrs of science" --- like Galileo Galilei, a great genius who was forced late in life to recant his views on the solar system by Pope Leo X. Or Giordano Bruno, who was actually burned at the stake.   But the scientific establishment itself can be easily seduced by power, just like the Church was in Galileo's time.  Science is just done by human beings. So we get plainly political editorials in magazines like Scientific American and Science. They jumped on Global Warming superstition before the facts were in.

Last year MIT Professor Richard Lindzen published an amazing expose in the Wall Street Journal editorial Page. It is called "Climate of Fear: Global-warming alarmists intimidate dissenting scientists into silence."  Why are real scientists not speaking up enough against the Global Warming fraud? Well, some have been fired from their jobs, and others are keeping their heads down:

    "In Europe, Henk Tennekes was dismissed as research director of the Royal Dutch Meteorological Society after questioning the scientific underpinnings of global warming. Aksel Winn-Nielsen, former director of the U.N.'s World Meteorological Organization, was tarred by Bert Bolin, first head of the IPCC, as a tool of the coal industry for questioning climate alarmism. Respected Italian professors Alfonso Sutera and Antonio Speranza disappeared from the debate in 1991, apparently losing climate-research funding for raising questions."

If scientists were totally honest, they would memorialize Trofimko Lysenko just like they celebrate Galileo. In some ways, Lysenko's name should be as well-known as Galileo, as a stern warning of what can so easily go wrong.  There are wonderful scientists, who must be honest, or they will fail. And then there are some corrupt scientists who are not honest. It's really that simple. Scientists can be demagogues, too. We should not pretend that all are what they should be. They're not. Fortunately, healthy science has all kinds of built-in checks and balances. Pathological science circumvents those.

Some scientists rationalize this corruption of their vocation by saying that people can lie for a good cause. The record shows otherwise. Fraudulent science and science journalism has led to AIDS going out of control; to DDT being banned and malaria gaining a new lease on life in Africa; to decades of famines in Russia; to children being badly mis-educated on such basics as reading and arithmetic;  to end endless slew of unjustified health scares, like Mad Cow;  and to a worldwide Leftist campaign cynically aiming to gain international power and enormous sums of money, based on a simple, unscientific  fraud.

When the truth-tellers in society begin to sell out and tell lies for some ideological goal, people end up dying.

James Lewis blogs at dangeroustimes.wordpress.com/

Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/global_warming_as_pathological.html at November 03, 2007 - 10:38:17 AM EDT
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mtnbkr

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 06:19:38 AM »
Quote
The explosive spread of AIDS occurred when the known evidence about HIV transmission among Gay men was suppressed by the media. The medical science establishment did not speak up. HIV is most easily transmitted through anal intercourse, because the anus bleeds far more easily than the vagina. So one Gay man simply passes blood products straight on to the next.  Sexually transmitted plagues have been studied scientifically ever since syphilis arose several centuries ago. We know how to limit their spread, but many Gay men have died as a result of political suppression of scientific medicine. The spread of AIDS was partly a self-inflicted wound.

Picking nits here...

Maybe he's talking about an earlier period, but since I first heard of AIDS in the mid 80s, it was pretty clear how it was spread.  Why has it spread?  Because homosexual men don't care and aren't willing to curb their behavior.  Witness the phenomena of "gift givers" and "bug chasers", or the outcry when known cruising sites are shut down.  Sorry, but I'm pretty much convinced there's a sizable gay community that would rather die than not have an orgasm.

Chris

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2007, 07:30:12 AM »
Science is vulnerable to politics because politicians control the funding. When politicians have an unhealthy or fraudulent agenda, they apply pressure on science to support their claims. Even in the best circle of people, there will always be a weak and corrupt minority which will give in to the seduction of the politicians. To prevent this, it is the job of the public to keep its elected officials on a tight leash. Voting for leftist-liberal statists is guaranteed to produce the above results with global warming, just as voting for religion-motivated conservatives produces problems with evolution and stem cells.

Iain

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2007, 07:34:40 AM »
Really, it takes five minutes to read about DDT and the supposed 'Carson killed more than Hitler' nonsense. Anyone who recycles that is guilty of exactly what this article charges - science based on prejudice.

There's so much in there that you can only accept as a decent summary of the science or the debate if you already accept his pretty clear conclusions about them:

DDT - Carson was wrong, no discussion needed
Lancet survey - a lie, needs no more discussing
Global warming - balls, and everyone knows it

If you want to get your facts from articles as heavy in preconception and bias as these, that's up to you. I won't accept the conclusions of a writer so caught up in his own questionable and yet unquestioned premises.

His Galileo attack is only really funny because of all the little 'libertarian/right wing' anti-GW anti-Carson pro-Milloy's that are out there ranting on the internet.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2007, 09:34:31 AM »
Well, yeah, but if you chop the tails of enough generations of rats, they'll eventually be born without tails.

Heck, everybody knows that.
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Soybomb

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2007, 10:04:44 PM »
Quote
Maybe he's talking about an earlier period, but since I first heard of AIDS in the mid 80s, it was pretty clear how it was spread.  Why has it spread?  Because homosexual men don't care and aren't willing to curb their behavior.  Witness the phenomena of "gift givers" and "bug chasers", or the outcry when known cruising sites are shut down.  Sorry, but I'm pretty much convinced there's a sizable gay community that would rather die than not have an orgasm.
It really is pretty inaccurate to blame homosexuals for the continued spread of aids.  On the worldwide scale of course we see the most cases in africa and india and worldwide heterosexual sex is the main source of infection.  If you want to take that down to the US level according to http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/reports/2005report/table17.htm the CDC saw 18k HIV/AIDS cases caused from homosexual sex and 12k from high risk heterosexual activities.  It seems like there's a sizable community of people of both sexual preferences that will engage in risky behavior for an orgasm.  The latest 20/20 might have had a big report on the scary gays and their bug chasers or whatever but it looks to me like the blame can be spread around.

Dannyboy

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 04:49:31 AM »
Just found this and had to throw it in here.

Fire and Rain
By Gary Aldrich
Friday, November 2, 2007

When the FBI transferred me to Los Angeles in 1970, I saw every nook and cranny of LA County, including some neighborhoods recently ravaged by fire. On a muddy hillside there was a scorched foundation, and a hand painted sign lamenting, Weve seen fire and weve seen rain. For as long as there has been recorded history, the hills surrounding LA burn annually, and this year is no exception.

California also has mudslides, sandstorms, and worst of all, earthquakes. Four days into my new assignment I was bounced out of bed by a 7.1 shake on the Richter scale. The dishes and glasses in our rented efficiency marched out of the cabinets and onto the floor.

Having grown up in South Florida, I was beginning to long for the good old days of 150 mile per hour hurricanes.

Today, fires, drought, and hurricanes are useful political fodder. Mudslides and earthquakes have not been politicized yet, but it wont be long before they are.

In the Sixties, the Hard-Left used Civil Rights and the Anti-War Movement to further their march to totalitarianism. Now they use the environment. Everyone who studies history knows the Hard-Left cannot move their agenda forward without riding on somebody elses movement. Or, they do it at the end of a rifle. Their endgame is harsh collectivism, with members of the Hard-Left firmly in control of peoples lives.

We need to understand that the Hard-Left is a relentless parasite and should be treated as a parasite. Instead, we politely tolerate this deadly ideology as if we have an obligation to do so. Have we become so brainwashed as to be unable to fight back?

We have suffered so much from the Hard-Left. Count the many ways they have forced us to alter our lives, not for the better. For example, while the French are safely enjoying nearly 80% of their energy from nuclear power plants, the Hard-Left in this country has shut down our development of nuclear power, forcing dependency on foreign oil. Today they are using the courts to halt new construction of coal fired power plants, because of the alleged carbon footprint of proposed new facilities. They wont let us drill for oil nor will they let us build new refineries. Why do we put up with this oppression when in our hearts we know that they are wrong?

Costing good citizens more money at the pump and causing our government to kowtow to foreign powers and ideologies as an established foreign policy is a terrible price to pay for our tepidness, our collective political correctness. We need to be strong and demand a higher standard beyond mere anxiousness caused by questionable scientific theory as the single basis for the establishment of laws, rules, and regulations related to the environment. We need to take a hard line, or prepare to forfeit our rights and liberty.

Too often feel-good regulations and laws have disastrous, unintended consequences. Consider the elimination of DDT in 1972. Before 1972 DDT was a cheap and effective means of eradicating mosquitoes and other harmful bugs that carry deadly and debilitating diseases, infecting animals and humans.

But, in 1972 we were happily riding on a tide of emotional junk science. About that time, environmentalist Rachel Carson wrote a book entitled Silent Spring which became overnight fact. Carsons book made two unscientific, untrue claims. First, DDT was accused of being a carcinogen that caused cancer in humans. Second, DDT was accused of weakening birds eggs, especially song-birds eggs, so that when the mother bird sat on the eggs to hatch them, the eggs cracked and the baby birds died. Later scientific testing would prove that these two claims were patently false.

But the environmentalist wackos aided by the Hard-Left used Carsons book and other hysterical ramblings to further their political goals. And, by using simple repetition of flagrant lies posing as science they cemented into out national conscience the lie that DDT was very bad and should be banned. School children today are still taught the evils of DDT as well as the victory experienced by environmentalists when they successfully achieved its ban. All they really accomplished was the needless death of millions of children.

Remarkably, there is a recently built middle school in Virginia named after Rachel Carson. There she is celebrated as the Mother of Environmentalism. She is a hero to school children everywhere. Rachel Carson was dead wrong and her out of control emotions and errors have cost many lives. Millions more live in agony because she thought she knew better than anybody else. Carson is a classic example of what we are dealing with today when it comes to Global Warming hysteria: Know it all-ism.

Ironically the individual most responsible for DDTs eventual ban was a Republican agency chief by the name of William Ruckelshaus, who served the Nixon Administration. He was a member of the Audubon Society and apparently believed the DDT threat to birds, but his order to ban DDT had to be an emotional or political response, since no serious science existed at that time to justify his decision.

The second irony is that upwards of 40% of the bird population in some areas have been killed by mosquitoes carrying the deadly West Nile Virus. Thats just in this country.

We used DDT for many years before 1972, nearly wiping out mosquitoes in the U.S. But since the DDT ban, millions of children and adults around the world have been needlessly killed or injured due to mosquitoes borne illnesses, including Malaria. Those deadly diseases  and the bugs that carry them - are now headed our way.

According to USA Today, when you travel to Puerto Rico the tourist bureau strongly recommends tourists not venture outdoors from dusk to dawn because of the spread of Dengue Fever, a disease for which there is no known vaccine. Dengue Fever, like Malaria is deadly and is spread by mosquitoes. Puerto Rico is a favorite stop-over for cruise lines that sail the Caribbean. Puerto Rican citizens routinely travel to and from the United States. USA Today also reports that Dengue Fever is cutting down populations worldwide, rivaling Malaria which also continues to infect millions.

Millions around the world can be saved, but only if we lift the ban on DDT. Sadly, the hysteria about DDT, spread by hyperventilating lefties and ignorant do-gooders, lives on.

Before we allow ourselves to be bullied by the likes of Al Gore and other members of the Hard-Left into more sweeping changes that can also negatively impact on the lives of millions, we should demand and receive the cold hard facts, citing the ban on DDT as some of our best evidence.

And, we dont need a lawyers closing argument, we need facts. But the Hard-left behaves as if the trial is already over. Their case is weak and they know it, so they are now bullying us into accepting science-lite, the primary proof, being repetition. But words written and spoken by aggressive, loud mouthed manipulators are never fact. Nevertheless the Global Warmists are moving their agenda forward, day by day.

Weak people on both sides of the political aisle are beginning to cave-in to the power of simple repetition. Instead they should take the time to examine the facts. We must help our weary leaders fight back with all their might, because history tells us once conventional wisdom is established and becomes law, it is nearly impossible to alter it, let alone reverse it. If they wont fight for our liberty we must get new leaders.

The next time somebody proclaims, Its for the children or for the Polar Bears, youd better listen carefully because you are about to be conned. Its not about the children. It is about the Hard-Lefts relentless power grab, and they will continue to tug at heart strings to achieve a Communitarian Utopia, run by mouthy know-it-alls and obnoxious pushy types who think they know better than you about how you should live your lives.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/GaryAldrich/2007/11/02/fire_and_rain?page=2
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

doczinn

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 04:44:44 AM »
Quote
If you want to take that down to the US level according to http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/reports/2005report/table17.htm the CDC saw 18k HIV/AIDS cases caused from homosexual sex and 12k from high risk heterosexual activities.
Consider those numbers in the context of the proportionate size of the gay vs the straight population.
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Balog

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 04:53:44 AM »
And let's be honest, when was the last time a public restroom was designated as a heterosexual "cruising" spot? I'm not saying anonymous unprotected public sex is solely a homosexual activity; but it sure as hell is a lot more common amongst them.
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Iain

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2007, 05:13:32 AM »
Dannyboy - there's a good reason that you should be extremely careful of that article without even touching his 'science'.

He repeatedly refers to a 'ban' on DDT. The situation is far more complex than that - there was a ban on agricultural use of DDT worldwide, all use in the US - but DDT is still used for anti-malarial purposes all across the world.

The real problem with anti-malarial use for DDT is a simple one - resistance amongst mosquitoes. As I understand it, DDT continues to be used alongside other pesticides and pest management techniques, including bednets.

There are some who see this continual attack on Carson (including allegations that she has killed more people than Hitler) as evidence of an ideological war against any form of environmentalism. Certainly the constant and deliberate oversimplification of the issue (along with CO2 etc, ad nauseam) is just as bad as any parallel allegation that can be laid at the door of environmentalists.
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richyoung

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 12:06:30 PM »
Dannyboy - there's a good reason that you should be extremely careful of that article without even touching his 'science'.

He repeatedly refers to a 'ban' on DDT. The situation is far more complex than that - there was a ban on agricultural use of DDT worldwide, all use in the US - but DDT is still used for anti-malarial purposes all across the world.

...and as I've told you before, Iain, the MONEY for DDT dried up because of the hysteria - millions are dead because of this.  This has been known since "The Disaster Lobby" was published in 1973.

Quote
The real problem with anti-malarial use for DDT is a simple one - resistance amongst mosquitoes. As I understand it, DDT continues to be used alongside other pesticides and pest management techniques, including bednets.


Much like the "thinning egg shell" research, the "resistance" research also does not hold water.

Quote
There are some who see this continual attack on Carson (including allegations that she has killed more people than Hitler) as evidence of an ideological war against any form of environmentalism. Certainly the constant and deliberate oversimplification of the issue (along with CO2 etc, ad nauseam) is just as bad as any parallel allegation that can be laid at the door of environmentalists.

Carson - was wrong.
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grampster

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 04:14:30 PM »
Rachel Carson now goes by the name Al Gore.

If Gore was not the hypocrite  bald faced liar and propagandist that he is, if he were really enlightened, really concerned, he'd be out there rounding up money to build nuclear power plants and lobbying his followers to press for the construction of nuclear power plants.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 04:31:39 PM »
If Gore was not the hypocrite  bald faced liar and propagandist that he is, if he were really enlightened, really concerned, he'd be out there rounding up money to build nuclear power plants and lobbying his followers to press for the construction of nuclear power plants.

Yes, but then his carbon indulgences business would not do so well.  cheesy

Soybomb

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 09:40:36 PM »
Quote
Consider those numbers in the context of the proportionate size of the gay vs the straight population.
Without a doubt homosexuals are hugely over represented.  That still doesn't mean its accurate to say that homosexuals are responsible for continued spread of hiv/aids if heterosexuals were responsible for 40% of new cases.  If your real interest is in stopping further infection I think you'd be more inclined to want to spread the word that straight people need to watch their sex practices as well, aids isn't just a gay disease.  And like I said thats just on the US level, worldwide its a heterosexual problem to start with.

Quote
And let's be honest, when was the last time a public restroom was designated as a heterosexual "cruising" spot? I'm not saying anonymous unprotected public sex is solely a homosexual activity; but it sure as hell is a lot more common amongst them.
I have to say I've never, to my knowledge at least, be propositioned or seen men having sex in a restroom.  I'm inclined to think this is a somewhat media overblown thing like any number of 20/20 reports.  Assuming it weren't though would it matter?  I know tons of heterosexual people that go to bars and clubs for random sex.  Sometimes they go home, in the town I went to college in sometimes they went to the bathrooms or the parking lot.  Even in my rural area we have a swingers bar.  My point remains the same, people of all sexual preferences are having unprotected sex with random partners.  The numbers show this includes a significant number of cases from hetereosexual sex.  Gay people are not even close to being solely to blame for this and it won't help stop the spread to present it that way.

Iain

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2007, 12:55:04 AM »
Of course it doesn't hold water. It didn't expect that it would. I don't intend to discuss it, only to point out that there are alternative tales to be told (by scientists in the main) and hopefully one or two here will read those as well as the screeds above.
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Balog

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2007, 01:12:51 PM »
I believe mtnbkr's point was regarding the "initial" spread of AIDS more than it's continued spread. That the disease was spread through the gay bathhouse scene primarily in San Francisco isn't disputed by even the most militant of homosexual activists.
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Soybomb

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2007, 11:58:35 PM »
I believe mtnbkr's point was regarding the "initial" spread of AIDS more than it's continued spread. That the disease was spread through the gay bathhouse scene primarily in San Francisco isn't disputed by even the most militant of homosexual activists.
I would agree with that but his comments seemed to be current tense not past and seem to refer to things that are currently in the media, thats why I took it the way I did.

mtnbkr

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2007, 01:36:47 AM »
Read it again Soybomb.  I was actually referring to the supposed effect the "media silence" had on the death rate.  My point was that was pretty damn obvious to an elementary school student in the 80s how AIDS was spread, yet media silence kept this information from homosexuals?  No, their own actions at the time caused the high death rate.  I referenced the "gift giver/bug chaser" phenomenon and cruising habits to illustrate the sort of depravity that exists in that community.  Obviously it's not the entire community, but a small subset, but it's disgusting that they're passing a fatal, incurable disease around like it's Halloween candy.

Chris

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Re: "Pathological Science" Article
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2007, 04:16:08 AM »
If you want to refer to media or govt inaction, that would probably have more traction when talking about some other countries. 

The only nonsense I thought the media got into was stressing heterosexual acts as a prime agent of spreading AIDS when homosexual acts and drug use were always the prime movers (not to say it isn't possible by hetero acts).  The other media issue to me was stressing the use of condoms rather than focusing more on behaviors. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge