GPS mandatory in new cellphones?

[Grandpa Shooter]

It was brought to my attention today that Verizon Wireless will no longer activate a cell phone which does not have permanently installed GPS software which can not be switched off at the users discretion  Friend of mine who knows how much I love governmental interferencein private lives informed me about it over supper.

Anybody else got that good news yet?

[Manedwolf]

Sounds like a rumor. If it's true, switch carriers. You always have a choice.

I disabled the GPS function on mine as soon as I got it, and then used BitPim to install a firmware tweak that permanently broke it.

[MicroBalrog]

This is only possible because people seem to think cellphones are surgically grafted to their bodies, and that they somehow cannot live without them.

Had my family not insisted I use a cellphone, I would not be using one. I will certainly not use a cellphone when I cross the Atlantic.

[Manedwolf]

This is only possible because people seem to think cellphones are surgically grafted to their bodies, and that they somehow cannot live without them.

Actually, if you have a car problem on a backroad in a New England winter storm and do not have a cellphone, you're likely to not live, yes.

[xavier fremboe]

This is only possible because people seem to think cellphones are surgically grafted to their bodies, and that they somehow cannot live without them.

Had my family not insisted I use a cellphone, I would not be using one. I will certainly not use a cellphone when I cross the Atlantic.

[sarcasm]If you aren't talking on a cellphone whilst driving, you aren't important enough to be on the road.[/sarcasm]
Best of luck.  I hate the damn things.

[MicroBalrog]

This is only possible because people seem to think cellphones are surgically grafted to their bodies, and that they somehow cannot live without them.

Actually, if you have a car problem on a backroad in a New England winter storm and do not have a cellphone, you're likely to not live, yes.

Where I live, there's no such thing as a sandstorm. And yet everybody insists on owning 2-3 cellphones. It's that crazy. My family is relatively tame about it, but we have 4 cellphones and there's four of us. It's insane.

[Firethorn]

Anybody else got that good news yet?

Not for Verizon in specific, but I've known for years.  The requirement isn't actually for GPS, but for the phone to be locatable for the purposes of a 911 call.  Whether the phone uses GPS or just signal differentials off of different towers doesn't actually matter.  However, GPS chips have gotten cheap enough that it's often easier to just include it.  After all, most of the time it can be considered a 'feature' (more helpful than harming).

My phone, for example, doesn't give up it's location unless I dial 911.  The fact that the local area doesn't or can't use that information isn't helpful, but when they add the capability they'll be able to give the police my location next time I encounter a suicidal deer.

Oh, and disabling your GPS or uploading hacked firmware will do diddly if the feds want to keep track of you.

Matter of fact, I'm getting to the point that instead of a 'pure cell', instead I want a relative monster that I can use like a PDA/Ebook reader/MP3 player.  No need to hold it to my head to make phone calls, I'll use a headset.  Heck, make the the headset clip to the thing when not in use.  BIIIIIG battery and long antenna.

[HankB]

If you don't want to be tracked, use cash to purchase a prepaid cell at Wal-Mart.

[Manedwolf]

Oh, and disabling your GPS or uploading hacked firmware will do diddly if the feds want to keep track of you.

Only via tower triangulation, which takes time and effort.

I didn't disable it because of the evil gummint. I disabled it because they're selling the tracking data to marketing companies so they can try to sell you more crap, and there will soon be location-specific GPS-derived text ads arriving on your phone if you have it. You'll get SMS coupons for businesses you happen to be near. Enjoy!

[MicroBalrog]

I didn't disable it because of the evil gummint. I disabled it because they're selling the tracking data to marketing companies

Or to your own relatives.

In Israel there was a service (no idea why it went away) to allow for parents to track their teenage children through GSM triangulation.

I was 17 at the time, and I told Mom and Dad that I would simply stop carrying a phone if they ordered that.

That ended the discussion, IIRC.

[Firethorn]

Only via tower triangulation, which takes time and effort.

Oh yea of little faith...  The gummint wants to track you by your cell, they'll turn it back on, among other things.

I didn't disable it because of the evil gummint. I disabled it because they're selling the tracking data to marketing companies so they can try to sell you more crap, and there will soon be location-specific GPS-derived text ads arriving on your phone if you have it. You'll get SMS coupons for businesses you happen to be near. Enjoy!

Haven't gotten any more marketing data.  Or text ads.  They try it I'll tell them to cut it out.

[MicroBalrog]

Oh yea of little faith...  The gummint wants to track you by your cell, they'll turn it back on, among other things.

The cellphone? Or the GPS device?

[Manedwolf]

I didn't disable it because of the evil gummint. I disabled it because they're selling the tracking data to marketing companies so they can try to sell you more crap, and there will soon be location-specific GPS-derived text ads arriving on your phone if you have it. You'll get SMS coupons for businesses you happen to be near. Enjoy!

Haven't gotten any more marketing data.  Or text ads.  They try it I'll tell them to cut it out.

It'll be in the fine print of your next contract. This was all covered in Advertising Age a while ago. The marketers are foaming at the mouth at the opportunity to track entire customer demographics' daily movements.

[RevDisk]

It was brought to my attention today that Verizon Wireless will no longer activate a cell phone which does not have permanently installed GPS software which can not be switched off at the users discretion  Friend of mine who knows how much I love governmental interferencein private lives informed me about it over supper.

Anybody else got that good news yet?

It's a manditory FCC regulation for e911 (Enhanced 911) response that all cells must have GPS by year XYZ.  Most carriers are smart enough to give you an option to turn off GPS.  But the e911 mandate requires an override.  Even without GPS, cell tower triangulation is accurate to within a 100 ft or so.  Sometimes less, sometimes more.  Older phones allowed it to be accessed by the user as a 'bargain GPS'. 

FYI, just remove the battery when you don't want to be bothered.  Or tracked.  Or bugged.

Thing is, all of this isn't new.  It's about a decade old at this point.  Sure, the technology has improved, but the capabilities have been there since cell phones became widely used.

[never_retreat]

Its not just verizon, All new cell phones have to incorporate some sort of locating feature. Its lets the E911 system locate you in an emergency. So weather the phone use triangulation or gps to do the positioning the .feds require it in all new phones.
If you don't like it hack your phone.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Best reason I can think of to get rid of the ******* thing!

[Antibubba]

Oh yea of little faith...  The gummint wants to track you by your cell, they'll turn it back on, among other things.

The cellphone? Or the GPS device?

Both.  Cellphones can be activated remotely by law enforcement agencies to record your conversations without your knowledge.  Of course, there's supposed to be a warrant, but, given the whole Homeland Security thing...

If you want to have a conversation that must remain private, remove the battery.

[AZRedhawk44]

Matter of fact, I'm getting to the point that instead of a 'pure cell', instead I want a relative monster that I can use like a PDA/Ebook reader/MP3 player.  No need to hold it to my head to make phone calls, I'll use a headset.  Heck, make the the headset clip to the thing when not in use.  BIIIIIG battery and long antenna.

I had one of those.

Big, thick PDA-thing running Windows Mobile.  I had 4GB of flash storage on it for MP3's and software... installed some map software on it and bluetoothed it to my handheld GPS unit.  Used a bluetooth earpiece for most phone calls.

Drawbacks:
1.  It was a touch screen.  So, if you didn't lock the screen it did all sorts of random crap.  Extraneous phone calls, internet browsing, you name it.  If you DID lock the screen, the hot-button on your bluetooth earpiece didn't work (because screen lock freezes all input into the device).  Very annoying.
2.  It was a touch screen.  No tactile feedback on the number pad.
3.  It was a touch screen.  If the backlight gets turned off (see lack of screen lock above) then you have to go somewhere VERY dark to be able to read the screen to turn it back on... and you can't see your number pad if you need to make a call (see #2).
4.  It was a touch screen.  Very fragile.  It's broken now, and I am carrying my 4 year old Nokia 6000.

[Firethorn]

Drawbacks:
1.  It was a touch screen.

Sounds like they haven't mastered everything quite yet(locking wise).  Still, I'd probably do with it what I do with my palm - stick it in a hard case when I'm not actively using it.

No tactile feedback isn't a big deal; I'm not going to be using it to type on, I can deal with the lack for entering my phone book.  As long as it has voice dialing, of course.

[roo_ster]

I do suspect that some enterprising folks are cooking up open-source cell phone software/OS that will allow the USER a greater measure of control.

[mtnbkr]

regarding touch screens, I've had a PalmOne Treo 600 since they came out.  I've dropped it many times onto just about every surface imaginable from heights as high as 5ft.  The scren has never broken and I only have one small scratch on it.  As for the tactile issues, my phone also has a regular keypad and the main screen remains lit if it is in use (such as dialing numbers, etc).

Chris

[Manedwolf]

I do suspect that some enterprising folks are cooking up open-source cell phone software/OS that will allow the USER a greater measure of control.

Google BitPim. It's been around for years.

[mtnbkr]

Yup, been using bitpim for 5 years now.  It's a good solution for those phones where the manufacturer's management software (just for contacts and such) is too expensive. 

Chris

[Manedwolf]

Yup, been using bitpim for 5 years now.  It's a good solution for those phones where the manufacturer's management software (just for contacts and such) is too expensive. 

Chris

Plus you can tweak firmware on some phones, and also (oops) break the time expiration on things like games.

[MillCreek]

So what is the precision of the location afforded by the GPS systems on cell phones?  I know my work Blackberry has the GPS setting.  If I call 911, does it locate me within a mile, 500 yards or five feet?  If someone at Naval Station Everett goes amok and launches a Tomahawk at my office, using the GPS coordinates from my Blackberry, is my office going to be a smoking hole, or are they going to take out the Chevron station on the next block?