GPS mandatory in new cellphones?

[Firethorn]

So what is the precision of the location afforded by the GPS systems on cell phones?  I know my work Blackberry has the GPS setting.  If I call 911, does it locate me within a mile, 500 yards or five feet?  If someone at Naval Station Everett goes amok and launches a Tomahawk at my office, using the GPS coordinates from my Blackberry, is my office going to be a smoking hole, or are they going to take out the Chevron station on the next block?

Probably closer to 100 feet, which would indeed have your office a smoking hole.  If it's got the fancy sensitive chipset(SirfstarIII), 10 feet along with quicker pickup.

[RevDisk]

I do suspect that some enterprising folks are cooking up open-source cell phone software/OS that will allow the USER a greater measure of control.

http://www.openmoko.com/products-index.html

Definitely check out the devkit.

[roo_ster]

regarding touch screens, I've had a PalmOne Treo 600 since they came out.  I've dropped it many times onto just about every surface imaginable from heights as high as 5ft.  The scren has never broken and I only have one small scratch on it.  As for the tactile issues, my phone also has a regular keypad and the main screen remains lit if it is in use (such as dialing numbers, etc).

Chris

Just don't soak it in water.  My Treo 650 is the only cell phone to not make a full recovery after dunking & stuffing in a food dehydrator.

[MicroBalrog]

Oh yea of little faith...  The gummint wants to track you by your cell, they'll turn it back on, among other things.

The cellphone? Or the GPS device?

Both.  Cellphones can be activated remotely by law enforcement agencies to record your conversations without your knowledge.  Of course, there's supposed to be a warrant, but, given the whole Homeland Security thing...

If you want to have a conversation that must remain private, remove the battery.

Quite.

The IDF instructs its soldiers to separate the phone from the battery when entering secure facilities.

They can't do squat if you don't have electric power to the phone. No battery, no GPS or tracking.

[mtnbkr]

Just don't soak it in water.  My Treo 650 is the only cell phone to not make a full recovery after dunking & stuffing in a food dehydrator.

Umm.  I've done that too.  I dropped mine in the dog's water bowl.  Because the battery isn't removeable, I couldn't yank power and it went haywire.  I left it sitting in the sun for a couple hours to dry and it returned to the land of the living. 

I'm tellin' ya, I can't kill this thing.  I'm going to replace it with the PalmOne Centro today.  Same basic phone, but in a more compact package and with Bluetooth.  Verizon FINALLY added it to their lineup.

Chris

[Grandpa Shooter]

So none of you are bothered by the implication that the gov't can (and will) use it either inappropriately or illegally?  I could give a rat's patoot about the technology involved, it's the potential for abuse that hacks me.

[AZRedhawk44]

So none of you are bothered by the implication that the gov't can (and will) use it either inappropriately or illegally?  I could give a rat's patoot about the technology involved, it's the potential for abuse that hacks me.

"If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." 

In all seriousness, when I get up from my keyboard commando station and take part in my mall ninja commando liberty preservation squad, I take the battery out of my cell phone.

Not picking on you, but just stating that the solution to the problem is very simple:  disposable cell phones with no personal registration, or unplug the battery, or a combination of the two techniques.

Me?  I've got a Verizon phone with a 2-year contract and a battery that lasts a week without recharging when left on all the time.

[Manedwolf]

So none of you are bothered by the implication that the gov't can (and will) use it either inappropriately or illegally?  I could give a rat's patoot about the technology involved, it's the potential for abuse that hacks me.

Government? No, the government can't find its backside with both hands.

Marketers? Hell yes.

[Grandpa Shooter]

"If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." 

Since I am doing nothing wrong, there is no reason for the government to worry about me.


The presumption of the guilt of the public, and the need to find them by whatever means possible, is the crux of the issue.

[RevDisk]

So what is the precision of the location afforded by the GPS systems on cell phones?  I know my work Blackberry has the GPS setting.  If I call 911, does it locate me within a mile, 500 yards or five feet?  If someone at Naval Station Everett goes amok and launches a Tomahawk at my office, using the GPS coordinates from my Blackberry, is my office going to be a smoking hole, or are they going to take out the Chevron station on the next block?

10 to 15 meters accuracy.  Avg is 12. 

So you'd statistically want to use a weapon with a blast radius of 49' 2.55".

[MillCreek]

Hmmm. So I wonder what is the CEP of a navalized Tomahawk fired from an Arleigh Burke class destroyer?  Or for that matter, since I am only a mile or so from the waterfront as the seagull flies, am I within range of its' 5 inch main gun?

[RevDisk]

Hmmm. So I wonder what is the CEP of a navalized Tomahawk fired from an Arleigh Burke class destroyer?  Or for that matter, since I am only a mile or so from the waterfront as the seagull flies, am I within range of its' 5 inch main gun?

BGM-109 fits multiple warheads, each with its own kill radius.  For maximum cell phone suppression, I recommend the cluster bomb warhead that has 166 BLU-97/B Combined Effects Bomblets.   Usage of Tomahawks equipped with 200 kt W80 nuclear warheads are forbidden under current US law. 

[Scout26]

So does that mean I call in CAS or Arty on people who are talking on their car phones while driving ??

PLEASE !!!!!

[erictank]

Hmmm. So I wonder what is the CEP of a navalized Tomahawk fired from an Arleigh Burke class destroyer?  Or for that matter, since I am only a mile or so from the waterfront as the seagull flies, am I within range of its' 5 inch main gun?

Not sure offhand of the max range of an Arleigh Burke's 5" gun, but I'm about 99.999...% sure it's well over 1 mile.  Let's see... according to FAS.org, the Burke-class' 5"/54-caliber gun can fire 16-20 rounds per minute out to a range of over 13 miles, while the upgraded 5"/62-caliber gun coupled with the new 5" ERGM (Extended Range Guided Munition - a rocket-assisted GPS+INS-guided round) can hit a target in a 10-20 meter circle at 63 miles.  The ballistic round's accuracy was not easily locatable, but the Burkes can use this gun system against air targets, so I'd say it's probably pretty accurate.

Short answer - if a Burke-class had reason to shell your office, you'd be toast. 

Given that the newer Tomahawks (Blocks III & IV and the followon TacticalTomahawk) are also GPS-guided, I'd guess CEP is on the order of several meters, at most, and any warhead the TLAM carries would take care of an office building quite handily, I suspect.