"Read this before you buy your first 1911"

[280plus]

From a friend. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/#.TfKHfEQHi6k;email

[Doggy Daddy]

Great, thanks.  I don't have a 1911, so everytime I get the urge from now on I'll re-read that link and see if I still want one.  Sooner or later, I probably will and then that link will be even more valuable to me.

DD

[Lanius]

He shoots a Glock.

That's plastic POS.. aren't there better weapons out there, that don't need constant maintenance? Sigs?

[Tuco]

He shoots a Glock.
That's plastic POS.. ......

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Hahahaha
Ha
(I completely agree by the way)

IBTL

[AZRedhawk44]

IBTL, indeed.

I used to be a follower of the Browning fellowship.  Still have 2 1911's in the safe and they're not going anywhere, and may still end up getting more company.

I find myself just "slightly" missing my Glock 21.

I'll probably end up with an XD45 longslide at some point in the future, here.  I agree with Vickers that the newer designs are more reliable.

[red headed stranger]

He shoots a Glock.

That's plastic POS.. aren't there better weapons out there, that don't need constant maintenance? Sigs?

Vickers is also one of the most in-demand 1911 pistolsmiths out there.  He also runs courses that specifically address the 1911.  There are few people that know more about the 1911 than him. He is far from just some Glock fanboy.  

His general advise on the 1911 is: If you want to run your 1911 hard, you better be a tinkerer who has good knowledge of the workings of the design. Otherwise, look for something in a Glock or HK.  

He is right.  As a general-issue weapon, there are better choices than the 1911 from a operator and from an economic standpoint.  

FTR, I love 1911s too, and have some very nice specimens.  However, my choice for EDC is a 9-year-old Glock 19 with well over 30k rounds through it.  

[seeker_two]

Hmmmm....he doesn't seem derogatory of the 1911's he hawks for Doublestar..... 

[BlueStarLizzard]

I think he overstresses the tinkering thing a bit.

Some of us arn't looking for a race gun, and are perfectly happy with a decent factory gun.

Not to mention, as the expert, he has seen and been involved with everything that can be wrong with a 1911A1, which is why he would recomend something else to anyone who might not be able to deal with a 1911 at his high standards.

Dog breeders will do the same thing. They try to talk perspective owners out of getting one, to ensure that the person really is dedicated.

[280plus]

I lurvs my RRA wadcutter and my Dinan modified Colt.Both very accurate with very nice triggers. I'd go so far as to say the Colt has the better trigger too. Both target guns. But suddenly I feel the need to examine them for rust. 

My primary carry which I never carry is my standard BHP. My EDC has transmogrified itself into a P-32 these days.

[roo_ster]

Some of us arn't looking for a race gun, and are perfectly happy with a decent factory gun.

Ayup.  $1000 & less retail will buy a reliable 1911.  No need to duct tape a wad of benjamins to it and fedex it to a high-dollar 'smith.

Oddly enough, before the 1911 became a gunsmith's meal ticket, they were issued in the 100s of thousands to troops for nearly 70 years.  Even passed reliability testing done by the US Army.  The last batch of for-gov't 1911/1911A1 pistols was 1945.  By the time Vietnam and Delta came around, the newest 1911 in the inventory was 20 years (VN) to 30 years (delta) old and had seen lots of use.  Older than their users, for the most part.  Recently, some units have purchased new 1911s.

A local guy used to hold an annual contest where folks would bring their Glock or 1911 and shoot until there was a malf.  The dude is a Glock guy and assumed Glock would win.  Well, Glock did win, about every other year.  Other years, it was won by a guy with a 1911.  Moral of the story: good design & execution, combined with good maintenance, makes for a reliable platform.

[Lee]

That's plastic POS.. aren't there better weapons out there, that don't need constant maintenance? Sigs?

Why yes....P220 for me. 
It's pretty irrelevant though...people have different tastes and needs. 1911's and Glocks are fine weapon, but if there is even a tiny seed of distrust in a person's mind about their defense weapon, an effort to should be made to alleviate that.  I'm most comfortable with a P220 in that role....but play time, and the collection in general, is open to anything. I love the look and feel of 1911's, and recognize the appeal of Glock simplicity as well.

[Ryan in Maine]

“Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

Malarkey.

But the 1911 is not a plug-and-play platform. Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking. Changing out all but the simplest parts will demand expert hand filing and fitting.

And malarkey.

Other than those two quotes where he exaggerates the reality of owning a 1911, I pretty much agree with the rest of his write up. I'm pretty sure he's cautioning new-to-the-game prospects.

The Smith & Wesson E-Series models are amazing, and I plan on saving for one after I pick up a Ruger SR40. It will most certainly be under $1,000. And I'm currently waiting to handle the new Ruger SR1911, which I expect to impress me.

[Hawkmoon]

I think he overstresses the tinkering thing a bit.

Some of us arn't looking for a race gun, and are perfectly happy with a decent factory gun.

Not to mention, as the expert, he has seen and been involved with everything that can be wrong with a 1911A1, which is why he would recomend something else to anyone who might not be able to deal with a 1911 at his high standards.

In the Jeep world we have a saying: 'If it ain't broke ... fix it 'til it is." The same holds true for 1911s, and most 1911s that have problems are the result of some Bubba trying to "improve" on the perfectly functional firearm the factory shipped. There are exceptions, of course - and that applies to entry level 1911s like the Rock Islands and Metro Arms, all the way up to Ed Brown and Les Baer and Nighthawk Custom.

I've been fortunate enough over the years to have bought a few new 1911s (wish I could have kept them all), including from Colt, Para-Ordnance, Rock Island, and a couple of others. The only one I had reliability issues with was a Para-Ordnance, and it eventually transpired that the gun shop owner who sold it to me lied. He represented it as previously-owned, but unfired. And it did LOOK unfired. Maybe it was ... but once a professional 1911 'smith looked inside he was able to point out a few things that didn't come out of the para-Ordnance factory. So my "new" Para had met Bubba. Once it had been thoroughly un-Babbafied, it was completely reliable.

[Boberama]

Vickers KNOWS his stuff.

But I still keep buying 1911s.

Mine run fine. All Colt.

[Ron]

I guess I just got lucky with the two 1911's I purchased.

My Springfield TRP has over 40k rounds through it and has never been to a smith, my RRA has around 5k flawless rounds.

The Glock guys I used to shoot with had more problems (related to their reloads no doubt) than I ever did.

[Jamie B]

I have 3, and they all run well.

Vicker's opinion is just his opinion.

1911's never seemed to bother him when he was making money from them.

After seeing his show on Outdoor channel, he needs to keep building 1911's.

He cannot act worth a hoot.

[RoadKingLarry]

I own 2 1911s. A Kimber Custom II that I have put somewhere around 5-6K rounds through, a good many of that in IDPA matches. The only malfs I've had with it can be blamed on out of spec reloads. I've also got a RRA full size Probably only about 1500 rounds through it with no malfs other than the factory supplied 8 rd mag doesn't like to feed my chosen SD round. It works fine with the 7 rd blue Kimber mag I use.
I don't really find any fault with Vicker's position but I think he is over hyping the down sides of the 1911 a little too much

[Perd Hapley]

I had similar thoughts after an unsatisfying experience with my first 1911 (first handgun ever). I decided to switch to Smith revolvers, until I could afford to send a gunsmith's children to college. My first Smith was flawless. The second revolver jammed much worse than the 1911.

My first 1911 was a Para 13.45. It malfed rather frequently, but at the time I had no idea why or how to deal with it. Wasn't sure where to find a smith, either. Since then, I've realized the extra reliability issues that arise from a double-column magazine.

[zahc]

Odd, my stock 1991 has never malfunctioned with any ammo. Even my XD45 malfunctioned a couple times due to limp-wristing by my wife.

[Scout26]

Colt 1991 Series 80.  My carry piece when I escape from the behind the lines of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Blago Daley 3CountyQuinn&Rahmostan.

Never a malf other then issues with mags (being old Army ones, I, errr borrowed, from when I was in) and a batch of reloads that I didn't properly size.

Runs everything I ever put through it and is more accurate then I am.

Only thing it needs are grips that fit my hand.

[grislyatoms]

Finest firearm I ever owned was a Springfield Armory (1911) Champion Loaded Stainless. That 1911 and I just...clicked. I could shoot it far better than anything else I have owned or fired. When times got rough I kept the G22, and sold the Champion, thinking "capacity was king".

My next purchase will be, without a doubt (unless I buy this Chi-Com SKS from my student assistant) a Springfield Armory Champion Loaded.

[White Horseradish]

I have three 1911 pistols. Two are Rock Island Armory, one is a Charles Daly. The RIA I bought new worked out of the box with two hitches. First hitch was caused by crappy springs and going to a Wolff kit and a Colt sear spring fixed it for good. The second hitch was caused by the carpy magazines shipped with it - the feed lips gradually spread apart until it started popping out the top round when I slapped the mag home. Tossed the mag in favor of McCormicks, no problems since. The RIA I bought used had some minor issues, but I think they may have been the fault of one of the previous owners. The CD was a basket case, I bought it knowing that with the intention of learning how to fix it. It works now just fine.

I think the main problem with the 1911 is the many years of gun rag articles on "improvements" and the excessive availability of Dremels and spare parts. Any random jackass with a Brownells catalog can fancy himself a gunsmith and proceed to make the gun non-functional, while blaming the platform for being finicky.

I really like how .45 ACP shoots. I thought I might like a plastic .45. I was shooting this one plastic double-stack and making groups the size of dinner plates. I put it down and switched to the 1911 - my groups shrunk to fist-size instantly. Something must be making a difference there.

[Lanius]

Norinco makes  double-stack all steel 1911's. Also regular 1911's.
I believe I'll buy one at some point in the future. I have long, slim fingers, and I'll be able to grip such a gun well.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Lanis, the 1911 is a single stack and is nice and slim.

Its a gun that also works for small hands, like mine.

[AZRedhawk44]

I had similar thoughts after an unsatisfying experience with my first 1911 (first handgun ever). I decided to switch to Smith revolvers, until I could afford to send a gunsmith's children to college. My first Smith was flawless. The second revolver jammed much worse than the 1911.

My first 1911 was a Para 13.45. It malfed rather frequently, but at the time I had no idea why or how to deal with it. Wasn't sure where to find a smith, either. Since then, I've realized the extra reliability issues that arise from a double-column magazine.

Para has a nasty habit of forcing the mag to ride too high in the mag well.  Not sure if it's the mag release position, or if it's how they cut the notch in their magazine bodies, as I've heard that switching to non-para mags will alleviate the problems, sometimes.

But the follower will push too hard on the slide stop and cause peening of the slide stop against the slide.

http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/following-up.html