HB 822 (National Reciprocity) passes

[Angel Eyes]

CCW guy has "normal" magazines (16rd 9mm mag, for example) instead of Clinton-impaired magazines.  Or he's carrying some gun that isn't on the CA DOJ list.

Thread drift: possessing handguns that are not on the CA DOJ "safe handgun" list is not illegal.  Just make sure that it's not an "assault weapon" per state law.

Re full capacity mags: yes, that would be an issue.

[doczinn]

I'd rather be able to carry and have to worry about the magazines than not be able to carry at all.

[gunsmith]

I bring my glock to CA all the time, every time I visit I make sure I do not have ten round mags & know state laws, the CA list is just pistols that cant be sold brand new to civilians - fer instance LCP in .380, a cop can buy a new one but not a civilian. However I sold my barely used LCP for a 100 dollar profit a few yrs ago in CA and did not violate any laws.

This law is awesome, sure NY or some such place may decide to arrest some one, a good test case will get a nice settlement for the right person. There are terrific people salivating over the chance to be the test case & terrific lawyers.

Its not at all difficult to know that you need ten rounders in CA but in the future I'm sure that will be changed too

[lee n. field]

I bring my glock to CA all the time, every time I visit I make sure I do not have ten round mags & know state laws, the CA list is just pistols that cant be sold brand new to civilians - fer instance LCP in .380, a cop can buy a new one but not a civilian. However I sold my barely used LCP for a 100 dollar profit a few yrs ago in CA and did not violate any laws.

This law is awesome,

My understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does jack for us here in the Illinois Volksrepublik.   (Currently, for those unfamiliar with it, IL is the last holdout, with no provisions for carry.)

[Ben]

My understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does jack for us here in the Illinois Volksrepublik.   (Currently, for those unfamiliar with it, IL is the last holdout, with no provisions for carry.)

In your own state, no. It's much like because of where I live in CA it won't do anything in-state for me. But if you have a Utah, Florida, or whatever non-resident permit, you'll be able to carry in all states except yours.

Doesn't help for carrying at home, I know. If you travel though, you would be able to do so on a single permit, versus, for example, the four that I currently carry to get coverage in most of the states I visit.

[MicroBalrog]

Except more politically charged and ripe for abuse.

How often have federal laws made us more free?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[wmenorr67]

The way I understand it, if a state has provisions for CCW then they have to accept the license/permit of any other state.  So that would mean no one could carry legally in Illinois or DC.  Every other state is open.  The only issue being that Vermont may have to issues permits to allow their citizens a means to carry outside Vermont.

[Tallpine]

The way I understand it, if a state has provisions for CCW then they have to accept the license/permit of any other state.  So that would mean no one could carry legally in Illinois or DC.  Every other state is open.  The only issue being that Vermont may have to issues permits to allow their citizens a means to carry outside Vermont.

Vermont could print the permit on your voter registration card 

[kgbsquirrel]

Vermont could print the permit on your voter registration card 

Or a small endorsement on the back of a Vermont drivers license. 

[Angel Eyes]

In your own state, no. It's much like because of where I live in CA it won't do anything in-state for me. But if you have a Utah, Florida, or whatever non-resident permit, you'll be able to carry in all states except yours.

Except Illinois and D.C. is my understanding.

[Matthew Carberry]

In your own state, no. It's much like because of where I live in CA it won't do anything in-state for me. But if you have a Utah, Florida, or whatever non-resident permit, you'll be able to carry in all states except yours.

Doesn't help for carrying at home, I know. If you travel though, you would be able to do so on a single permit, versus, for example, the four that I currently carry to get coverage in most of the states I visit.

Huh, I had thought it didn't cover non-res permits.  Looked at it again and voila. 

As for Cali mag bans and such, any non-resident carrier from out of state will have to abide by the exact same carry laws the most unlimited resident has to in whatever state they are in, just like current reciprocity. 

So if that means carrying 10 round only or having proof of prior ownership of "normal cap" in Cali (I have no idea) that would apply.

 

[Ben]

Except Illinois and D.C. is my understanding.

Correct. Sorry for not stating that. It will be interesting to see, if this becomes law, if it changes things in IL and DC as it's expected to do in the "May Issue" states.

[Ben]

Huh, I had thought it didn't cover non-res permits.  Looked at it again and voila.  

It will also be interesting to see (again, if the law is passed) what happens to non-resident permits. I don't know if there's anything in the national carry bill specifically protecting these. I'm guessing it will remain left to the states.

I know that not long ago, Utah was looking at stopping the issue of non-resident permits to anyone in a shall-issue state unless that person already had a resident permit in their home state. I didn't follow it since it didn't apply to me (CA not being "shall issue", so unaffected by the potential law). Some states could stop issuing non-resident permits if national carry passes. I don't know why they would, but they could.

[Matthew Carberry]

Since non-res permits are part of the pant's wetting right now in, for example, Philly (people denied under their draconian take on PA law have gotten non-res FL licenses to still be able to carry), I can see them being challenged.

I can see that potentially being a trade-off made in the Senate to get passage, given that the real justification argument for the bill boils down to "if your state has carry and you are trusted to carry in your state you should be able to travel to others and carry there too". 

Non-res permits kinda subvert that a little, which is why I was surprised to see no verbiage to that regard in the bill.

Of the may-issue states I can see the anti's in HI trying to repeal their carry law under a "we don't want tourists carrying and we don't have any carrier's with permits to offend anyway" logic.  Which would make for a good fight to watch.

Not sure if NJ or the other NE states would realistically be able to pull off the same defensive move given they do have at least some permit holders to push back and point out the facts, particularly if they travel under the law and get a feel for what a real carry law should be, like in VA or PA. 

In IL, 822 if passed could rally the pro-carry types to get carry passed to get in on it and/or rally the anti-carry folks to try and keep it off the table even harder since they know even a strict "may-issue" regime will go by the wayside after a couple years of zero incidents from residents and non.

[Matthew Carberry]

Only covers your handguns though, no knives or long guns, AOWs etc... 

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr822rh/pdf/BILLS-112hr822rh.pdf

This Act may be cited as the ‘‘National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011’’.

SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

8 (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

11 ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms
13 ‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any
14 State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in
15 subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal
16 law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a
17 firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid
19 license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of
20 a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed
21 firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other
22 than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been
23 shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce,
24 in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—

1 ‘‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the
2 State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed
3 firearms; or ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
5 firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
6 ‘‘(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun
7 in a State under this section shall be subject to the same
8 conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess
9 or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the
10 law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the
11 possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents
12 of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the
13 State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited
14 by the State from doing so.
15 ‘‘(c) In subsection (a), the term ‘identification document’ means a document made or issued by or under the
17 authority of the United States Government, a State, or a
18 political subdivision of a State which, when completed with
19 information concerning a particular individual, is of a
20 type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals.’’.

[Monkeyleg]

Does anyone really expect Harry Reid to allow a vote, and Obama to sign? If not, why is everyone getting worked up about the particulars?

[Matthew Carberry]

Does anyone really expect Harry Reid to allow a vote, and Obama to sign? If not, why is everyone getting worked up about the particulars?

Does Harry want re-election?  

He knows with the NRA behind this bill their "A" rating of him is on the line.  

It'll be easy for any and all to put him on the spot trying to explain why he is on record as believing Arizonans can be trusted to carry without a permit or training at home but simultaneously agrees with Pelosi and Schumer that the same Arizonans who have taken the trouble to be screened and get permits are too dangerous to be allowed to do so across state lines.  

Especially when many of his bordering state Senators, who would be most impacted, support letting them do so and oppose Pelosi and Schumer.

Obama technically can claim to have not done anything blatantly against gun rights to this point (the scandals are a sideline news-wise), if he vetos this pro-gun bill he goes on public, trumpeted by the MSM, record as being exactly who the pro-gun community says he is right before an election.  And he needs every blue collar gun owner in his corner to win.

The Dems as a whole will be looking at this as a threat but also a potential booster.

[MicroBalrog]

Does Harry want re-election?  

He knows with the NRA behind this bill their "A" rating of him is on the line.  

It'll be easy for any and all to put him on the spot trying to explain why he is on record as believing Arizonans can be trusted to carry without a permit or training at home but simultaneously agrees with Pelosi and Schumer that the same Arizonans who have taken the trouble to be screened and get permits are too dangerous to be allowed to do so across state lines.  

Especially when many of his bordering state Senators, who would be most impacted, support letting them do so and oppose Pelosi and Schumer.

Isn't Reid from Nevada?

[Monkeyleg]

Yes, Reid is from Nevada, which you'd think is a conservative state, but is dominated by a couple of somewhat liberal areas. Nevada doesn't have reciprocity with any state, except perhaps UT.

Reid could play the old let it pass in the senate but not be able to get enough override votes game. That's pretty transparent, though.

Obama needs his base. He'll be put in a tough spot, which is why I don't think he'd allow it to reach his desk.

[Matthew Carberry]

Isn't Reid from Nevada?

Look pal, all those small desert states look alike to me.  

But mea culpa, you're right, I was dead wrong about AZ.

* been being wrong a lot lately, must be because I'm seeing a woman again, I've noticed a correlation in the past.

Still, as noted, he allowed last year's even less restrictive bill to come to a vote and he does run as a "pro-gun" Dem and flaunts his NRA A rating..

[Ben]

Nevada doesn't have reciprocity with any state, except perhaps UT AZ.

Which is why it's gone from 5 days to 2+ months to get an AZ permit.

[Matthew Carberry]

Yes, Reid is from Nevada, which you'd think is a conservative state, but is dominated by a couple of somewhat liberal areas. Nevada doesn't have reciprocity with any state, except perhaps UT.

Reid could play the old let it pass in the senate but not be able to get enough override votes game. That's pretty transparent, though.

Obama needs his base. He'll be put in a tough spot, which is why I don't think he'd allow it to reach his desk.

This is NOT a "gotcha" but NV has reciprocity with more than a few states.  He's vulnerable on it.

http://nvrepository.state.nv.us/ccw_changes.shtml

Out of State Carry Concealed Weapon Permit Recognition

*Effective July 1, 2011

In accordance with NRS 202.3689 (effective October 1, 2007) the State of Nevada will recognize the following States' CCW permit holders:

Alaska
Arizona*
Arkansas
Kansas
Kentucky*
Louisiana
Michigan
Missouri
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Tennessee
Rhode Island
West Virginia


This law allows holders of valid permits from these states to carry a concealed weapon while in the State of Nevada. The permit must be in the possession of the issue at all times while carrying a firearm.

[Monkeyleg]

Hmmm. At some point NV didn't honor any state's permits.

Regardless, unless Reid wants to butt heads with Obama, he'll find a way to keep the bill from passing while still giving cover to himself and select Democrats.

[longeyes]

It's either a window to a Better Tomorrow or one more signpost on the way to national fragmentation (and more government oversight and arrogation).

It will be interesting to see what happens to this bill politically, but imagining that Obama doesn't block it somehow is a stretch.