Post by: Manedwolf on May 16, 2008, 04:04:50 AM
Quote
California tax proposals target beer-loving, pornography-watching yacht owners
Democratic lawmakers search far and wide for new revenue to balance the state budget, though Republicans have vowed to stop any tax hikes.
By Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
11:18 PM PDT, May 8, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- As state leaders hunt for politically palatable solutions to the swelling budget shortfall, some Democrats are proposing unorthodox ways to generate cash.
Strip clubs, six-packs, grocery bags and iTunes downloads are all in their sights as alternatives to broad income or sales tax hikes. So are gas guzzlers and yachts -- and a tax loophole for criminals.
Despite tough odds of overcoming an oath signed by their Republican colleagues to stop any tax hikes, Democratic lawmakers seem confident that their ideas will carry the day. They predict the public won't stand for painful cuts to schools and healthcare to close a shortfall the governor now pegs as high as $20 billion, and say anti-tax forces will ultimately have to accept that more revenue is needed to bring the state into the black.
GOP lawmakers say the majority party simply has an insatiable appetite for taking money from Californians. The California Republican Party recently released an Internet video, set to the O'Jays' "For the Love of Money," in which the tax ideas float across the screen after footage of Senate leader Don Perata (D-Oakland) telling the media in March his prescription for balancing the budget: "Raise taxes. That clear enough? Raise taxes."
Almost all of the Democrats' ideas are being met with some degree of scorn.
"Some people are e-mailing, threatening to come and slug me," said Assemblyman Jim Beall (D-San Jose), who hopes to see a $1.80 tax added to the price of every six-pack of beer sold in the state. "We're getting some pretty nasty comments."
The idea of taxing comforts and conveniences evokes the budget crisis of 1991, when then-Gov. Pete Wilson agreed to impose a "snack tax" on Californians, raising the cost of junk food and bottled water. Voters repealed it a year later.
Supporters of the latest measures may be encouraged by a recent softening of the governor's anti-tax rhetoric -- although he still says he's against new taxes -- and by reports that his administration is exploring possible new levies.
Some of the proposals would be used to help balance the budget; others would fund specific new programs. The legislators say their various causes -- as broad as averting further cuts to the general fund, which is tapped by all government programs, and as narrow as improving local trash cleanup -- are too important to let slide just because the state is broke. They say their quest for revenue is the responsible course of action.
"If we don't do some of these things, we are going to have to cut nearly $5 billion out of schools," said Assemblyman Charles Calderon (D-Montebello), chairman of the Revenue and Taxation Committee. He has proposed some of the Legislature's more unconventional measures, including taxes on digital downloads and adult entertainment.
Calderon said he was moved to push for levies on downloads such as iTunes because state sales tax laws do not reflect the high volume of purchasing that Californians do online. Consumers can download music from the Internet through Apple's iTunes and other services tax-free, Calderon noted, while they pay sales tax for buying the same music on a compact disc at a store.
His proposal would empower state authorities to collect sales tax on the downloads, increasing the cost of a typical 99-cent song to roughly $1.07. Calderon projects that the bill (AB 1956), which could also apply to pornography downloads, cellphone ring-tones, online books and feature films distributed on the Internet, would raise about $500 million for the state budget.
The idea stalled in committee this month in the face of fierce industry opposition. But like the other proposals, it could be revived at any time, most likely when legislative leaders hammer out a budget agreement this summer.
Calderon said the resistance to his bill did not surprise him. But he is perplexed that he hasn't been able to get more traction for another proposal: a 25% tax on sex toys, strip shows, pornographic magazines and videos and anything else sold in an "adult entertainment venue."
"This is a major industry that is putting a disproportionate burden on state services," he said. "Drugs are heavily used. The actors have a short life span. Some leave the industry drug-addicted with no skills. They wind up availing themselves of Medi-Cal and other state programs."
A coalition of porn stars, strippers and others in adult entertainment roamed the halls of the Capitol recently to lobby against the Calderon bill (AB 2914).
They have beaten back similar proposals in the past, typically with the help of anti-tax activists, who say that if levies are imposed, the industry will move elsewhere and jobs will be lost.
Assemblyman Mike Davis (D-Los Angeles) is targeting a wider group of consumers. Almost every Californian would bear some of the brunt of his proposal to charge a 25-cent tax on every plastic carryout bag from stores.
California consumers discard an estimated 19 billion of the bags each year, many of which wind up littered on the street. Davis says his proposal (AB 2829) would encourage consumers to use fewer bags -- or better yet, bring their own to stores -- and provide local governments with funds to clean up the litter. The proposal has the backing of several environmental groups.
"A person is going to think carefully before spending a quarter to get a bag," Davis said.
But Davis says he knows people are suffering financially and has proposed a property tax break for low-income seniors. There's a catch: The proposal (AB 2459) would require seniors to "work off" their taxes in county offices, doing such jobs as gardening, record filing or data entry.
Other bills target gas guzzlers. AB 2388 by Assemblyman Mike Feuer (D-Los Angeles) would place a surcharge on vehicles based on their weight and the amount of carbon dioxide they emit. Assemblyman Joe Coto (D-San Jose) wants to collect new fees from drivers of luxury vehicles that get less than 15 miles per gallon. His bill is AB 2638.
The leader of the Assembly's Republicans, Mike Villines of Clovis, says the many tax bills "show how out of touch the [legislative] majority has become. . . . Working people are looking at these taxes and saying, 'Are you kidding me? You are going to add more costs to my daily life?' People want us to live within our means like they do."
Democrats retort that it is not they who are out of touch.
Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) has expressed bewilderment that GOP lawmakers won't even talk about eliminating the mortgage deduction for vacation homes valued at more than $1 million -- a move Republicans say would discourage the wealthy from buying property in California.
And don't get Nuñez started on the sales tax on yachts, which wealthy Californians have been able to avoid by docking their boats in Mexico for 90 days before bringing them home -- the result of what Nuñez calls a "sloophole" that Republicans refuse to close.
Another bid the GOP has blocked, AB 1746, was made at the behest of prosecutors who were frustrated to learn that felons can claim tax breaks on criminal business operations, even after being convicted. The bill, an effort to eliminate the deductions, stalled on the Assembly floor.
Democratic lawmakers search far and wide for new revenue to balance the state budget, though Republicans have vowed to stop any tax hikes.
By Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
11:18 PM PDT, May 8, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- As state leaders hunt for politically palatable solutions to the swelling budget shortfall, some Democrats are proposing unorthodox ways to generate cash.
Strip clubs, six-packs, grocery bags and iTunes downloads are all in their sights as alternatives to broad income or sales tax hikes. So are gas guzzlers and yachts -- and a tax loophole for criminals.
Despite tough odds of overcoming an oath signed by their Republican colleagues to stop any tax hikes, Democratic lawmakers seem confident that their ideas will carry the day. They predict the public won't stand for painful cuts to schools and healthcare to close a shortfall the governor now pegs as high as $20 billion, and say anti-tax forces will ultimately have to accept that more revenue is needed to bring the state into the black.
GOP lawmakers say the majority party simply has an insatiable appetite for taking money from Californians. The California Republican Party recently released an Internet video, set to the O'Jays' "For the Love of Money," in which the tax ideas float across the screen after footage of Senate leader Don Perata (D-Oakland) telling the media in March his prescription for balancing the budget: "Raise taxes. That clear enough? Raise taxes."
Almost all of the Democrats' ideas are being met with some degree of scorn.
"Some people are e-mailing, threatening to come and slug me," said Assemblyman Jim Beall (D-San Jose), who hopes to see a $1.80 tax added to the price of every six-pack of beer sold in the state. "We're getting some pretty nasty comments."
The idea of taxing comforts and conveniences evokes the budget crisis of 1991, when then-Gov. Pete Wilson agreed to impose a "snack tax" on Californians, raising the cost of junk food and bottled water. Voters repealed it a year later.
Supporters of the latest measures may be encouraged by a recent softening of the governor's anti-tax rhetoric -- although he still says he's against new taxes -- and by reports that his administration is exploring possible new levies.
Some of the proposals would be used to help balance the budget; others would fund specific new programs. The legislators say their various causes -- as broad as averting further cuts to the general fund, which is tapped by all government programs, and as narrow as improving local trash cleanup -- are too important to let slide just because the state is broke. They say their quest for revenue is the responsible course of action.
"If we don't do some of these things, we are going to have to cut nearly $5 billion out of schools," said Assemblyman Charles Calderon (D-Montebello), chairman of the Revenue and Taxation Committee. He has proposed some of the Legislature's more unconventional measures, including taxes on digital downloads and adult entertainment.
Calderon said he was moved to push for levies on downloads such as iTunes because state sales tax laws do not reflect the high volume of purchasing that Californians do online. Consumers can download music from the Internet through Apple's iTunes and other services tax-free, Calderon noted, while they pay sales tax for buying the same music on a compact disc at a store.
His proposal would empower state authorities to collect sales tax on the downloads, increasing the cost of a typical 99-cent song to roughly $1.07. Calderon projects that the bill (AB 1956), which could also apply to pornography downloads, cellphone ring-tones, online books and feature films distributed on the Internet, would raise about $500 million for the state budget.
The idea stalled in committee this month in the face of fierce industry opposition. But like the other proposals, it could be revived at any time, most likely when legislative leaders hammer out a budget agreement this summer.
Calderon said the resistance to his bill did not surprise him. But he is perplexed that he hasn't been able to get more traction for another proposal: a 25% tax on sex toys, strip shows, pornographic magazines and videos and anything else sold in an "adult entertainment venue."
"This is a major industry that is putting a disproportionate burden on state services," he said. "Drugs are heavily used. The actors have a short life span. Some leave the industry drug-addicted with no skills. They wind up availing themselves of Medi-Cal and other state programs."
A coalition of porn stars, strippers and others in adult entertainment roamed the halls of the Capitol recently to lobby against the Calderon bill (AB 2914).
They have beaten back similar proposals in the past, typically with the help of anti-tax activists, who say that if levies are imposed, the industry will move elsewhere and jobs will be lost.
Assemblyman Mike Davis (D-Los Angeles) is targeting a wider group of consumers. Almost every Californian would bear some of the brunt of his proposal to charge a 25-cent tax on every plastic carryout bag from stores.
California consumers discard an estimated 19 billion of the bags each year, many of which wind up littered on the street. Davis says his proposal (AB 2829) would encourage consumers to use fewer bags -- or better yet, bring their own to stores -- and provide local governments with funds to clean up the litter. The proposal has the backing of several environmental groups.
"A person is going to think carefully before spending a quarter to get a bag," Davis said.
But Davis says he knows people are suffering financially and has proposed a property tax break for low-income seniors. There's a catch: The proposal (AB 2459) would require seniors to "work off" their taxes in county offices, doing such jobs as gardening, record filing or data entry.
Other bills target gas guzzlers. AB 2388 by Assemblyman Mike Feuer (D-Los Angeles) would place a surcharge on vehicles based on their weight and the amount of carbon dioxide they emit. Assemblyman Joe Coto (D-San Jose) wants to collect new fees from drivers of luxury vehicles that get less than 15 miles per gallon. His bill is AB 2638.
The leader of the Assembly's Republicans, Mike Villines of Clovis, says the many tax bills "show how out of touch the [legislative] majority has become. . . . Working people are looking at these taxes and saying, 'Are you kidding me? You are going to add more costs to my daily life?' People want us to live within our means like they do."
Democrats retort that it is not they who are out of touch.
Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) has expressed bewilderment that GOP lawmakers won't even talk about eliminating the mortgage deduction for vacation homes valued at more than $1 million -- a move Republicans say would discourage the wealthy from buying property in California.
And don't get Nuñez started on the sales tax on yachts, which wealthy Californians have been able to avoid by docking their boats in Mexico for 90 days before bringing them home -- the result of what Nuñez calls a "sloophole" that Republicans refuse to close.
Another bid the GOP has blocked, AB 1746, was made at the behest of prosecutors who were frustrated to learn that felons can claim tax breaks on criminal business operations, even after being convicted. The bill, an effort to eliminate the deductions, stalled on the Assembly floor.
Post by: Standing Wolf on May 16, 2008, 04:10:50 AM
Post by: grampster on May 16, 2008, 04:15:47 AM
Post by: Ben on May 16, 2008, 04:49:48 AM
Quote
"If we don't do some of these things, we are going to have to cut nearly $5 billion out of schools," said Assemblyman Charles Calderon (D-Montebello)
No, you just used "it's for the children" to scare people (again).
My CA tax prep paperwork this year asked how much stuff I bought off the Internet. I left it blank and my CPA didn't say a thing. They're really poking the sleeping bear with this "tax the internet" stuff.
Post by: wmenorr67 on May 16, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
Almost feel sorry for him.
NAH
Post by: Manedwolf on May 16, 2008, 04:54:55 AM
Quote
"If we don't do some of these things, we are going to have to cut nearly $5 billion out of schools," said Assemblyman Charles Calderon (D-Montebello)
No, you just used "it's for the children" to scare people (again).
My CA tax prep paperwork this year asked how much stuff I bought off the Internet. I left it blank and my CPA didn't say a thing. They're really poking the sleeping bear with this "tax the internet" stuff.
I have a feeling you'll unfortunately be in the minority, and the same people who voted all these clowns in will line up, Euro-style, to pay more tax.
I really like the indentured servitude for seniors. That's classy right there. O_o
Post by: The Annoyed Man on May 16, 2008, 05:06:50 AM
doesn't seem to improve the quality of education any. They still graduate functionally illiterate teenagers who can't read their own diploma.
I don't care about internet downloads, titty bars and porn, but the beer tax is over the top.
Post by: grampster on May 16, 2008, 05:16:21 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on May 16, 2008, 05:16:53 AM
I think if they pass that tax on a six pack, stores will start selling 5 packs plus one single. Wasn't that done with cigarettes?
The money for schools is going into a huge pit created by the Teacher's Union.
What would be the real effect if:
1) Government employees were forbidden to unionize.
or
2) Govt employees and govt contractors (individuals or corporations) were forbidden to lobby government office holders, officials, or candidates directly or indirectly. The penalty would be set in law as "the same as possession of unregistered full auto machine guns" and reference that statute.
Post by: grampster on May 16, 2008, 05:27:19 AM
Post by: Balog on May 16, 2008, 05:28:57 AM
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 16, 2008, 07:24:08 AM
3. Provide a pickup place for educational materials for every family wishing to home school their children. Anyone not willing to home school? Well you get what's left over.
Thats all well and good but it is illegal to home school in kalifonia.
Post by: MicroBalrog on May 16, 2008, 08:55:06 AM
3. Provide a pickup place for educational materials for every family wishing to home school their children. Anyone not willing to home school? Well you get what's left over.
Thats all well and good but it is illegal to home school in kalifonia.
There are some limited options.
http://hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=CA
Post by: wideym on May 16, 2008, 11:08:58 PM
Post by: taurusowner on May 16, 2008, 11:24:52 PM
If California starts taxing vehicles with poor gas mileage they might as well just open a new welfare office in every district.
Don't suggest that. More ideas on how to create more Dem voting wards of the State is the last thing they need.
Post by: LadySmith on May 17, 2008, 02:00:27 AM
Ladysmith, I'm begging you. Please please PLEASE get the hell outta that stinking pesthole so I can break out my CA shaped earthquake voodoo doll and give my AZ family some beachfront property.
Balog, I'm trying. I'm pretty sick of them trying to tax us into submission. 
Edited to clarify: Not that I do downloads, beer or porn!
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 17, 2008, 07:45:16 AM
Post by: 209 on May 17, 2008, 08:05:35 AM
The beer tax has always been a kind of no-go around here. It always boiled down to singling out "Joe Six-pack" (not my name for beer drinkers)who is perceived to be the middle class conservative. Many a politician has been bruised and bloodied for suggesting a special tax on beer. Of course, middle class conservatives are fair game in CA.
Post by: Manedwolf on May 17, 2008, 02:24:16 PM
Ladysmith, I'm begging you. Please please PLEASE get the hell outta that stinking pesthole so I can break out my CA shaped earthquake voodoo doll and give my AZ family some beachfront property.
Balog, I'm trying. I'm pretty sick of them trying to tax us into submission. Edited to clarify: Not that I do downloads, beer or porn!
You don't ever buy music online, pay for and download software applications, or get anything delivered electronically after you pay for it, ever? That's what they're talking about taxing.
Post by: LadySmith on May 19, 2008, 12:37:58 AM
You don't ever buy music online, pay for and download software applications, or get anything delivered electronically after you pay for it, ever? That's what they're talking about taxing.
Nope. I'm an old school shopper. If I want music or movies, I buy CDs and DVDs. My home computers are now just something I store digital photos on. That's because only infuriatingly slow dial-up or expensive satellite connections are available where I live. Also, I didn't know that you can download beer.
Post by: mek42 on May 19, 2008, 01:55:28 AM
3. Provide a pickup place for educational materials for every family wishing to home school their children. Anyone not willing to home school? Well you get what's left over.
Thats all well and good but it is illegal to home school in kalifonia.
Are you serious? Even in NY (# 2 or 3 on the list of oppressive states) people homeschool their kids all the time.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 19, 2008, 08:04:13 AM
3. Provide a pickup place for educational materials for every family wishing to home school their children. Anyone not willing to home school? Well you get what's left over.
Thats all well and good but it is illegal to home school in kalifonia.
I find that hard to believe. But then again, it is Kalifornia...
Post by: Tallpine on May 19, 2008, 06:04:01 PM
Quote
Also, I didn't know that you can download beer.
You not only can but you must download a little while after you upload it.
Ladysmith: if you can handle a little bit of cold weather, you really should consider moving to Montana. Bring your donkeys.
Post by: wmenorr67 on May 19, 2008, 08:17:36 PM
Ladysmith: if you can handle a little bit of cold weather, you really should consider moving to Montana. Bring your donkeys.
That would have been funnier if you said something about bringing her and her asses to Montana.
Post by: LadySmith on May 19, 2008, 10:36:43 PM
You not only can but you must download a little while after you upload it.
Ladysmith: if you can handle a little bit of cold weather, you really should consider moving to Montana. Bring your donkeys.
I like the cold and am considering Montana, Alaska, maybe even Antarctica as long as it's not CA.That would have been funnier if you said something about bringing her and her asses to Montana.
Tallpine is a gentleman who knows how to avoid having pots, pans and shoes thrown at him.
Post by: Balog on May 20, 2008, 10:05:18 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on May 20, 2008, 10:27:30 AM
I love a lot of things about Washington. I'm pretty unhappy at the thought of it turning into CA north. I don't see much hope of it changing, but I'm willing to fight for it. Of course, pretty soon there is a good chance all America is gonna go the way of the People's Republik Of Kalifornia.
They have to finish assimilating Oregon first, but they already have a base in Seattle.
Post by: HankB on May 26, 2008, 04:46:42 AM
Quote
Some of the proposals would be used to help balance the budget; others would fund specific new programs
I boldfaced the most telling part . . . it would seem that according to many democRATS, California government just isn't big enough yet.
Post by: LadySmith on May 27, 2008, 02:39:41 AM
. . . it would seem that according to many democRATS, California government just isn't big enough yet.
Not until every life form on the planet is firmly under its thumb.Quote
The leader of the Assembly's Republicans, Mike Villines of Clovis, says the many tax bills "show how out of touch the [legislative] majority has become. . . . Working people are looking at these taxes and saying, 'Are you kidding me? You are going to add more costs to my daily life?' People want us to live within our means like they do."
I recall an accidental open mic discussion played on the air a few years ago where Democratic representatives admitted that they want us, the people, to suffer. It appears they're actively working towards making that happen.They pour money into the school union and we get kids who can't read, write or do math.
They tax us for roads and ours rank among the worst when it comes to disrepair.
They forbid us from hunting and now we have coyotes stalking children.
I hope enough people get sick of this.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on May 27, 2008, 06:59:09 AM
. . . it would seem that according to many democRATS, California government just isn't big enough yet.
Not until every life form on the planet is firmly under its thumb.Quote
The leader of the Assembly's Republicans, Mike Villines of Clovis, says the many tax bills "show how out of touch the [legislative] majority has become. . . . Working people are looking at these taxes and saying, 'Are you kidding me? You are going to add more costs to my daily life?' People want us to live within our means like they do."
I recall an accidental open mic discussion played on the air a few years ago where Democratic representatives admitted that they want us, the people, to suffer. It appears they're actively working towards making that happen.They pour money into the school union and we get kids who can't read, write or do math.
They tax us for roads and ours rank among the worst when it comes to disrepair.
They forbid us from hunting and now we have coyotes stalking children.
I hope enough people get sick of this.
Post by: Manedwolf on May 27, 2008, 07:27:24 AM
. . . it would seem that according to many democRATS, California government just isn't big enough yet.
Not until every life form on the planet is firmly under its thumb.Quote
The leader of the Assembly's Republicans, Mike Villines of Clovis, says the many tax bills "show how out of touch the [legislative] majority has become. . . . Working people are looking at these taxes and saying, 'Are you kidding me? You are going to add more costs to my daily life?' People want us to live within our means like they do."
I recall an accidental open mic discussion played on the air a few years ago where Democratic representatives admitted that they want us, the people, to suffer. It appears they're actively working towards making that happen.They pour money into the school union and we get kids who can't read, write or do math.
They tax us for roads and ours rank among the worst when it comes to disrepair.
They forbid us from hunting and now we have coyotes stalking children.
I hope enough people get sick of this.
Okay, Hugo Drax...
Post by: longeyes on May 27, 2008, 07:54:01 AM
Quote
I love a lot of things about Washington. I'm pretty unhappy at the thought of it turning into CA north. I don't see much hope of it changing, but I'm willing to fight for it. Of course, pretty soon there is a good chance all America is gonna go the way of the People's Republik Of Kalifornia.
I live in Los Angeles but have spent a lot of time, pleasurably, in the NW. Hey, not all your yuppies and lefties are from down here. Who are all those skinny guys with beards, Che berets, and backpacks on bikes I keep seeing? I think you may have a homegrown problem, if I may so observe.
Post by: HankB on May 28, 2008, 03:56:01 AM
The solution to this is to start an off-world colony of freedom-loving people. After all the sane people have left planet, we nuke the Californicated Earth repeatedly.
Nuking it from space is the only way to be sure . . .
Post by: RocketMan on May 30, 2008, 04:23:53 PM
They have to finish assimilating Oregon first,...
The assimilation was finished years ago. Washington is doomed.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on May 30, 2008, 11:17:02 PM
The solution to this is to start an off-world colony of freedom-loving people. After all the sane people have left planet, we nuke the Californicated Earth repeatedly.
Nuking it from space is the only way to be sure . . .