Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on September 14, 2023, 11:13:50 AM
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I was always curious why my homebuild gaming PC would report on Windows Update, running Windows 10, that it wasn't compatible with Windows 11.
I did some research and found out it was due to the Trusted Platform Module in the BIOS. All I had to do was enable/clear TPM and on the next reboot and WinUpdate check I was invited to upgrade to Windows 11.
That being said, is Win11 worth upgrading to? What am I getting as far as gaming extensibility that I'm not getting with Windows 10? What restrictions/compromises will I get on my computer as a result of the upgrade?
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Worth it? Probably only because Win 10 will be going to the Limbo of Unsupported OSs in the not too distant future.
I find it mostly annoying to deal with, more than anything else, compared to Win 10. (I'm talking Pro here. Don't go with Home.)
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Yeah I'm Win10Pro right now. It's offering 11, didn't pay close enough attention to see if it's offering Pro or Home.
I've been meaning for awhile to spin up a Samba domain on my NAS and join my PC to it; I've heard that a lot of the document and profile snooping in Windows 10 is disabled for domain user environments.
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On my main home office desktop I bit the bullet yesterday and updated it to 11 after playing with 11 for a while in a virtual machine. You quickly get used to it but I think you may know some of my dislikes from another thread. My laptop doesn't meet the stated HW requirements but I will force feed it before too long.
For S&G I force fed it on a 2010 Acer with a AMD Phenom II X 4 w/8gb & SSD and was surprised at how well it ran. Runs smooth and is perfectly usable for anything but newer games. Remains to be seen how long MS will allow bypassing the HW requirements but heck they even tell you how to do it.
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Yeah I'm Win10Pro right now. It's offering 11, didn't pay close enough attention to see if it's offering Pro or Home.
If you're upgrading from Pro you'll upgrade to Pro.
I've been meaning for awhile to spin up a Samba domain on my NAS and join my PC to it; I've heard that a lot of the document and profile snooping in Windows 10 is disabled for domain user environments.
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If you're upgrading from Pro you'll upgrade to Pro.
Yep, 7/8/10 Home will upgrade to 11 Home and 7/8/10 Pro to 11 Pro automatically
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For S&G I force fed it on a 2010 Acer with a AMD Phenom II X 4 w/8gb & SSD and was surprised at how well it ran. Runs smooth and is perfectly usable for anything but newer games. Remains to be seen how long MS will allow bypassing the HW requirements but heck they even tell you how to do it.
For "S&G" I set up a Win 10 virtual, fed it a Win 7 license key during the install. Then set the virtual machine to have a virtual TPM, and upgraded to 11. All worked, activated, everything.
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For "S&G" I set up a Win 10 virtual, fed it a Win 7 license key during the install. Then set the virtual machine to have a virtual TPM, and upgraded to 11. All worked, activated, everything.
Yep, you can use 7, 8, & 10 keys. If reusing a key it must be a retail key not OEM unless installing on the same machine.
In other words retails keys can be transferred, OEM keys are only good for the PC they were sold with and first installed on.
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For an easy way to install it on a machine that doesn't met the stated HW requirements download a W11 ISO file from MS then a program called Rufus. Rufus will allow bypassing the HW checks as well as bypassing the hated create a MS account requirement. You can actually do those things manually without Rufus but Rufus makes it a easy no brainer process.
You will need a USB drive.
https://rufus.ie/en/
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/Screenshot_2023-09-14_160217.png)
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Yep, you can use 7, 8, & 10 keys. If reusing a key it must be a retail key not OEM unless installing on the same machine.
Plus, if you were lucky enough to be a Technet subscriber back when the keys were permanent, those windows 7 keys work too. Best $200 I spent back around 08 or so. Ended up with around 60 Windows 7 keys that can be activated 10 times each. For testing purposes only though...
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Plus, if you were lucky enough to be a Technet subscriber back when the keys were permanent, those windows 7 keys work too. Best $200 I spent back around 08 or so. Ended up with around 60 Windows 7 keys that can be activated 10 times each. For testing purposes only though...
Sounds like a volume key.
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I was an early adapter of Win-11 and have been happy with it. Yeah, there was a learning curve but it is configurable enough that It now feels "like home", if ya know what I mean. It runs ALL my stuff, even some OLD DOS based stuff and my copy of Paint Shop Pro 4.12 (copyright 1991-1999).
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Crap. I couldn't remember why my laptop wasn't able to be upgraded to Win11, just checked it again. Seems like the TPM and Secure Boot needs to be enabled (can do) - but - the CPU isn't on the list of supported CPUs.
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Crap. I couldn't remember why my laptop wasn't able to be upgraded to Win11, just checked it again. Seems like the TPM and Secure Boot needs to be enabled (can do) - but - the CPU isn't on the list of supported CPUs.
The HW requirements can be bypassed. Download a W11 ISO and Rufus stated in as reply #8.
Either that or do the registry hack manually. MS even tells you how to do it on their website.
I should have noted before that MS will still provide updates. MS is not treating such systems any different. Like I said they even tell you how to do it. Now whether or not they reverse that who knows?
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Did not know that Rufus would get around the CPU requirement.
On the other hand, how well is Win11 going to run on an "unsupported" system? This being my main computer right now, I'd hate to FUBAR it. According to the PC Health Check, the CPU's fast enough (right at the minimum), just isn't supported.
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Did not know that Rufus would get around the CPU requirement.
On the other hand, how well is Win11 going to run on an "unsupported" system? This being my main computer right now, I'd hate to FUBAR it. According to the PC Health Check, the CPU's fast enough (right at the minimum), just isn't supported.
See reply #3 for my example.
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Looks like I'll have to figure out how I'm going to do a full system backup & find out if I'm going to like W11.
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Just to make sure MS hasn't screwed something up since I last did it I'm right at this moment making a new Rufus boot stick with the latest W11 ISO and I'm going to install it again on to the old Acer. Stay tune.
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There will be a small delay. Forgot I had to set MBR for legacy boot for the old fossil when creating a new Rufus boot stick
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Installed, activated and running updates.
As far as speed of 11 on your system vs 10 it should be pretty much the same and in fact may be a touch bit snappier
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The TPM requirement is understandable for security reasons
The CPU requirement yes and no. The best theory I've heard is that MS's main revenue stream is from OEM licenses on new PCs and that the CPU requirement despite it running just fine on "older" CPUs is MS's way of nudging people into buying new PCs. Make sense and maybe one reason MS has been looking the other way and even putting on their website, if you know where to look, on how to bypass it through a registry edit as it could maybe open the door to lawsuits otherwise but I'm not a legal expert.
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Seen some articles on how Win11 cumulative updates won't be available on unsupported systems, but every article seems to have been written in 2021. At least I can't find anything more recent.
If MS is telling folks how to install in unsupported systems, seems they wouldn't withhold the updates for those systems, even though their site states:
If you proceed with installing Windows 11 on a PC that does not meet the requirements, that PC will no longer be supported and won't be entitled to receive updates.
I did see that EOL for Win10 isn't projected to be until 2025, so I'm thinking there's no really rush in upgrading?
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Seen some articles on how Win11 cumulative updates won't be available on unsupported systems, but every article seems to have been written in 2021. At least I can't find anything more recent.
If MS is telling folks how to install in unsupported systems, seems they wouldn't withhold the updates for those systems, even though their site states:
I did see that EOL for Win10 isn't projected to be until 2025, so I'm thinking there's no really rush in upgrading?
Updates just fine.
If they decide to cut off the updates at some point in my case out will come a Linux install boot stick for the machines that don't meet the requirements. I have two that don't met the requirements, one* is duel boot machine with XP on it as a retro gaming machine and the other is my laptop. The first I don't care since it main purpose is to run XP and running newer Windows on is not even necessarily. the laptop is mainly for reading while I'm in bed and Linux will do just fine for that.
*Same machine I just reinstalled 11 on to make sure MS hadn't screwed with anything. It's an old 2010 Acer.
And you have two years from next month till MS cuts off updates for 10
Edit: Almost forgot. And two 2009(8?) Dells. Don't use them but I did install 11 with Rufus on one over a year ago just to see and it ran just fine.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/Screenshot_2023-09-14_160217.png)
How are you getting those options. I've got rufus open in front of me, with a freshly download win11. Not seeing them.
never mind, found a write up on it
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How are you getting those options. I've got rufus open in front of me, with a freshly download win11. Not seeing them.
never mind, found a write up on it
Yeah, I probably should have pointed out they don't come up until you hit start. I think they do it that way because until you've finalized which ISO you're using it doesn't know to give you those options or not.
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Force fed 11 onto my laptop. It's a i5-6200u so MS says too old.
Had to manually install some drivers that are related to the CPU, integrated GPU, and chipset but all done.
Laptop is actually running noticeably smoother now.
11 is probably the first OS upgrade that I can remember where the computer may actually run smoother afterwards
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Well poop, according to this MS is no longer allowing the use of W7 and W8 keys to upgrade to 10 or 11
No More FREE Windows Upgrades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70qcVq_INx8
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Well poop, according to this MS is no longer allowing the use of W7 and W8 keys to upgrade to 10 or 11
No More FREE Windows Upgrades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70qcVq_INx8
Ah, good to know. Istill sometimes see Windows 7 and 8 PCs, and always urge them to upgrade. "It's still a free upgrade from Microsoft." . Now, "solly Charlie.". Oh, well.
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Now if you've already used a W7 or W8 key to upgrade to 10 or 11 you're golden, they're cutting off new upgrades. They were suppose to do this a couple of years ago they just kept dragging their feet on actually flipping the switch.
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Confirmation from PC Mag
The option to upgrade to the latest version of Windows 11 for free using a Windows 7 or Windows 8 key is no longer available.
The free upgrade path from Windows 7 to Windows 11 was more of a loophole. When Windows 10 launched, Microsoft allowed Windows 7/8 users to upgrade for free. That option was meant to end in 2016, but continued to work indefinitely without explanation. When Windows 11 launched, the same free upgrade path remained available.
However, as Neowin reports, Microsoft posted a message on its Device Partner Center website earlier this month stating, "The installation path to obtain the Windows 7 / 8 free upgrade is now removed as well."
10 to 11 is still open though
But could this be a loophole
If you're running Windows 10, then the upgrade to Windows 11 remains free as long as your hardware meets the minimum system requirements. And it seems a Windows 7/8 key still works as long as the Windows 11 version being upgraded to is 22H2 or older. Attempting to use one of those keys with the newer 24H2 build or subsequent builds in future won't work.
So maybe use your 7 key to install 11 22H2 or older then let it update to 23H2?
I keep older ISOs on file
Microsoft Kills Free Windows 7 to Windows 11 Upgrade Option
https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-kills-free-windows-7-to-windows-11-upgrade-option
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By reports they've closed all the 7/8 --> 10/11 "loopholes"
Can't test this myself since all my 7 keys have been used up upgrading several PCs to 11 and they're running just fine.
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Got bored and ran simple tests on three of the older PCs in the house I've upgraded from 7/10 to 11.
When I say simple I mean simple. Ran a HD YT video in Firefox w/adguard installed to see how much CPU each would use. Figured internet browsing and office type work would be common use on older PCs.
1) Dell OP 780 SFF, Intel Q6600 4/4 (core/threads) 2.4GHz, 8gb DDR2, Original OS 7 Pro, Manufacturer date 2009
2 Acer X3300, AMD Phemon X4 925 4/4 2.8GHz (originally had a Athlon II X4 620) 8gb DDR2, Original OS 7 Home Manufacturer date 2009 (2010 CPU)
3) Acer R5-571T laptop, i5-6200u 2/4 2.3GHz 8gb, Original OS 10 Home, Manufacturer date 2016
Note: All have SSDs installed.
Cinebench R23 test results Avg
1) 1231
2) 1516
3) 1660
First I loaded W10 and then Linux Cim Mint 21.2 and all three showed ~40-55% utilization of the CPU with both OSs
Now here's the kicker, installed W11 and CPU utilization dropped to 20-30% for the same video
MS has been claiming 11 is better at resource management and it appears from this they're right.
Sorry I didn't record mem use, it completely slipped my mind to do so.
Note: To install W11 I used Rufus to bypass the HW checks on all three
BTW: For comparison the same video on my more recent built, AMD Rysen 5 5600g which has a R23 score of ~13,000, it used 1-3%
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Need to get the i7-7700K going again to test but that CPU is a bucking bronco trying to settle down with wild temp spikes. 7700Ks are notorious for it. The 5600G replaced it and is far faster and far easier to settle down heat wise.
If I get bored again I may do a far more detail series of tests.
Edit: But just remembered I transferred the windows key that was used on the 7700K's setup to the 5600G's setup. If I'm going to use it in anyway beyond just testing I would have to purchase a new key and with MS cutting off 7 to 11 upgrades that means $$.
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Well, i can confirm that the old Technet Windows 7 keys i had are all dead. I tried to use one for my new build and it was a no go. Oh well, i got about 15 years and a lot of installs out of that subscription. If you need keys now, try https://www.kinguin.net/ They’re a marketplace where other stores sell keys for various software. Just pick the one with the most ratings for what you’re looking for. Keys are likely gray market OEM Builders keys from countries that don’t allow regional locks. Basically, big companies buy blocks of keys from Microsoft, and then sell off the ones they don’t use to recoup some of their money. Keys will be locked to the original motherboard you install on. 11 Pro averages about $25. I’ve used and activated 3 so far with no issues as of yet.
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poking around that site gives me the same warm fuzzy feeling as shopping on one of the gun sale scam sites.
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Just went on Amazon and usually you will find a bunch of people selling cheap Windows keys on there but this time found none.
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If you're annoyed by W11's menu here's your answer
Only $6 for 1 PC, $13 for 5. Does have a 30 day trial.
Even has a better W10 menu for 11 than W10 has.
Start11
https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/
I had a Stardock menu installed on my Windows 3.11. Wow memories
Video review
https://youtu.be/OTUa2_QNrpg
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poking around that site gives me the same warm fuzzy feeling as shopping on one of the gun sale scam sites.
LOL, pretty much; but they have been around quite a while. Many of their vendors have multiple millions of reviews. I believe all of them take PayPal, and the one i bought from took Apple Pay. They’ve also been mentioned by PC Magazine as one of the good places to buy cheap keys.
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I see W11 23H2 has dropped.
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Update on the "unsupported hardware" business
On my PCs that have "supported" HW they've updated to 23H2
On the "unsupported hardware" PCs no 23H2 but they are downloading security updates.
So, based on that no more feature updates starting with 23H2 for the "unsupported hardware" PCs?
If that changes I'll update.
Edit: Confirmed that is what they are doing after a search on the internet.
People posting they have found a work around.
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As long as the "unsupported HW" PCs are still getting Security updates I'm not going to worry about it that much, If not then those PCs will get Linux.
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For an easy way to install it on a machine that doesn't met the stated HW requirements download a W11 ISO file from MS then a program called Rufus. Rufus will allow bypassing the HW checks as well as bypassing the hated create a MS account requirement. You can actually do those things manually without Rufus but Rufus makes it a easy no brainer process.
You will need a USB drive.
https://rufus.ie/en/
Can be found in the your Windows's Microsoft store now.
In other words MS is providing you the tools to bypass their crap.
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Can be found in the your Windows's Microsoft store now.
In other words MS is providing you the tools to bypass their crap.
saw that Rufus was in the store the other day. I do not know if the MS Store version lets you do that. Will try soon.
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Yeah I was like "did MS defang it?" but the settings to bypass CPU & TPM checks and the stupid MS account requirement are all there
Doing a install on my old 2009 Dell with the latest W11 iso at this very moment
Will get back with how it went
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Installed and activated
MS: We don't want you doing that
Also MS: Here's the tool to do it with
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Installed and activated
MS: We don't want you doing that
Also MS: Here's the tool to do it with
I wouldn't have expected it from MS, but that actually seems fair.
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If you're annoyed by W11's menu here's your answer
Only $6 for 1 PC, $13 for 5. Does have a 30 day trial.
Even has a better W10 menu for 11 than W10 has.
Start11
https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/
I had a Stardock menu installed on my Windows 3.11. Wow memories
Video review
https://youtu.be/OTUa2_QNrpg
Open Shell is still free, and it works with Windows 11.
https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/
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Are ads in Window's future?
Maybe but so far only in the insider builds.
Microsoft Now Put Ads in Windows 11 Start Menu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3N7Pxw4Uo
They do this and that will be the last straw for me and Linux here I come.
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Are ads in Window's future?
Maybe but so far only in the insider builds.
Microsoft Now Put Ads in Windows 11 Start Menu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3N7Pxw4Uo
They do this and that will be the last straw for me and Linux here I come.
Depending on how long this Windows 7 system lasts, if I have to get another system built, I've already decided to get some version of Linux. I may have to take a course at the local "jr. college" to learn how to use Linux, but I'd rather do that than paying a "subscription fee" to MS.
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Depending on how long this Windows 7 system lasts, if I have to get another system built, I've already decided to get some version of Linux. I may have to take a course at the local "jr. college" to learn how to use Linux, but I'd rather do that than paying a "subscription fee" to MS.
If you have a spare computer, just dive in.
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Depending on how long this Windows 7 system lasts, if I have to get another system built, I've already decided to get some version of Linux. I may have to take a course at the local "jr. college" to learn how to use Linux, but I'd rather do that than paying a "subscription fee" to MS.
Wow, using W7 on the internet, umm, yeah
Anyway
With Linux you have to pick a flavor, yes they are usually referred to as flavors, and stick to it since many can be quite different.
Probably the most recommenced is Mint Cinnamon followed by Zorn. Mint has other versions but Cinnamon is the full up version. Neither are really hard to learn but it may take some time to get use to where everything is. As far as program compatibility you may have to ditch certain software packages that you used to and learn some new ones. Drivers may or may be available for some hardware although Linux has been getting better about it
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Wow, using W7 on the internet, umm, yeah
Anyway
With Linux you have to pick a flavor, yes they are usually referred to as flavors, and stick to it since many can be quite different.
Probably the most recommenced is Mint Cinnamon followed by Zorn. Mint has other versions but Cinnamon is the full up version. Neither are really hard to learn but it may take some time to get use to where everything is. As far as program compatibility you may have to ditch certain software packages that you used to and learn some new ones. Drivers may or may be available for some hardware although Linux has been getting better about it.
That was a "given". My earlier XP Pro was using Office 2000 and I reloaded it on this 7. My 98 system has apparently died (hadn't used it in over a year) as it said "OS not found" when I tried to boot it up recently. After my mother's passing, I took that XP back as it still has Movie Maker on it, something not on 7. I have a lot of prints (and slides) I need to scan and her scanner has a transparency scanner built into it - IF I can get it to work !
I went through about 500 slides today, saving maybe 50 but I still have almost 1500 to get through. :facepalm:
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Most known methods of bypassing MS account requirement are now being blocked during installs of 23H2. Dick move on MS part. F Y MS.
One solution would be to install 22H2 and then update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6zViY3sbo
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I was going to recommend using the domain join bypass, but it looks like the video has that covered.