Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: birdman on June 01, 2014, 10:13:10 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bergdahl-release-arrangement-could-threaten-the-safety-of-americans-republicans-say/2014/05/31/35e47a2a-e8ff-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_print.html
So we not only negotiated with terrorists, we released HVTs to do so.
In other words:
Taliban, want your guys back at a 5:1 ratio? Grab US troops
Or
The US does negotiate with terrorists
Or
WTF?!?!
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From what I'm hearing, he was captured after he left his post and went into the local village, and he walked out with sensitive information on his person.
Something smells...
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I'm
happynot so sure I'm happy the Sgt is now free. As a bonus, we can now kill the "detainees" (along with their families and friends) in a drone strike.
ETA:not so sure I'm happy he's free.....
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As a bonus, we can now kill the "detainees" (along with their families and friends) in a drone strike.
Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.
Chris
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I recall that we have been doing spy swaps for decades, and sometimes both sides would seize additional spies to have something to trade.
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Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.
Chris
Yeah, I know. Why aren't the lib's all apoplectic (I know, silly question) about Barry's use of drones as they were with Bush?
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From what I'm hearing, he was captured after he left his post and went into the local village, and he walked out with sensitive information on his person.
Something smells...
Doesn't matter how much of an idiot he is. The result in this case is the same.I recall that we have been doing spy swaps for decades, and sometimes both sides would seize additional spies to have something to trade.
Slight difference between spies captured and then a negotiated release, POW exchange, and this.
The issue isn't entirely there was a negotiation, my issue is it was done extra-legally.
There is a specific law on the books regarding notification, Obama's signing statement was basically "I don't care" and he acted accordingly.
What is the purpose of law when it doesn't bind anyone. Obama said it was unconstitutional, but rather than challenge it in a court, he acted as if it didn't exist.
Not only that, it was a unilateral change in policy...regardless of prior history of spy/prisoner exchanges, the Taliban are classified as terrorists. We don't negotiate with terrorists, but now we do.
This stinks, and puts a target on troops.
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What stinks is that he was held for 5 years without being killed. Not the traditional MO of the guys we are fighting. Something does smell and the truth will never come out.
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People were warning that if Israel negotiated for Shalit then more troops would be kidnapped.
And yet this failed to materialize.
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There is some evidence coming from the guys in his unit that he deserted specifically looking for the Taliban. Which could explain his lifespan.
He walked out of a defensive perimeter, at night, without his armor or weapon. Then he ran into some Afghans and asked them where he could find the Taliban.
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As I am sure the legal eagles would take pains to point out; as far as I know, we did not directly negotiate with the Taliban. The Emir of Qatar did, albeit on our behalf.
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As I am sure the legal eagles would take pains to point out; as far as I know, we did not directly negotiate with the Taliban. The Emir of Qatar did, albeit on our behalf.
We released HVTs in exchange for a guy. Regardless of who brokered the deal, they demanded something, we released people.
5 HVTs for one guy? Did we try a capture/rescue?
But the point remains, the law says congress had to be informed, the president didn't.
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There is some evidence coming from the guys in his unit that he deserted specifically looking for the Taliban. Which could explain his lifespan.
He walked out of a defensive perimeter, at night, without his armor or weapon. Then he ran into some Afghans and asked them where he could find the Taliban.
That is what I understand
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Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.
It's just a question of how to create enough collateral damage that there won't be any left to become jihadis.
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Seen a couple of things that have made my BS meter twich:
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/143442-freed-american-hostages-father-deletes-a-very-disturbing-tweet/
And a couple stories coming out from people in his unit (I haven't seen confirmed proof) that he just walked out one night. He been acting goofy prior to leaving, and wasn't "part" of the unit but a last minute fill-in (non-airborne qualified) to make sure there's a body in the slot.
Once I find a credible one, I'll post it.
This is what I keep seeing:
"Forwarded from Jeff Howard. "We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little “out there”. Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him. He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are. We get hits on our voice intercepter that Taliban has him, and we were close. We come to realize the kid deserted his post, snuck out of camp and sought out Taliban… to join them. We were in a defensive position at OP Mest, where your focus is to keep people out. He knew where the blind spots were to slip out and that's what he did. It was supposed to be a 4-day mission but turned into several months of active searching. Everyone was spun up to find this guy. News outlets all over the country were putting out false information. It was hard to see, especially when we knew the truth about what happened and we lost good men trying to find him. PFC Matthew Michael Martinek, Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss, SSG Clayton Bowen, PFC Morris Walker, SSG Michael Murphrey, 2LT Darryn Andrews, were all KIA from our unit who died looking for Bergdahl. Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl. Fighting Increased. IEDs and enemy ambushes increased. The Taliban knew that we were looking for him in high numbers and our movements were predictable. Because of Bergdahl, more men were out in danger, and more attacks on friendly camps and positions were conducted while we were out looking for him. His actions impacted the region more than anyone wants to admit. There is also no way to know what he told the Taliban: Our movements, locations, tactics, weak points on vehicles and other things for the enemy to exploit are just a few possibilities. The Government knows full well that he deserted. It looks bad and is a good propaganda piece for the Taliban. They refuse to acknowledge it. Hell they even promoted him to Sergeant which makes me sick. I feel for his family who only want their son/brother back. They don’t know the truth, or refuse to acknowledge it as well. What he did affected his family and his whole town back home, who don’t know the truth. Either way what matters is that good men died because of him. He has been lying on all those Taliban videos about everything since his “capture”. If he ever returns, he should be tried under the UCMJ for being a deserter and judged for what he did. Bergdahl is not a hero, he is not a soldier or an Infantryman. He failed his brothers. Now, sons and daughters are growing up without their fathers who died for him and he will have to face that truth someday."
All the names listed as KIA were KIA'd as members of 1/501 PIR after 18 Aug 2009. I'm still trying to find out when 1/501PIR was due to rotate home, but IIRC, they got extended to try to find him.
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I pretty much grew up with POW-MIA flags being flown(heck,the Stars & Stripes was still being regularly being flown when I grew up-I digress).
Not to put too fine a point on it but who the heck is this guy that he was more important than the hundreds that were MIA in S.E.Asia?
I remember a few seemingly half hearted mentions of a push for their return but they seemed to die quickly.IIRC,the repatriation of bones and the (limited) searches around known battlefields & crash sites didn't happen until the late eighties.
A different age?A less popular war?The internet?
I don't know,in my mind I can picture a grizzled 70 year old man,long broken,living his last days in a forgotten jail guarded by a group of equally ancient jailers.
I'd rather see the old man come home than a kid who purposely walked off base(from what I've read on the matter).
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Here are the bio's of the five we traded him for:
1- Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.
2- Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of *expletive deleted*it Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.
3- Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.
4- Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.
5- Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/five-most-dangerous-taliban-commanders-us-custody-released-pow-exchange_794017.html
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Leme get this straight...
We trade 5 HVTs for 1 (supposed) deserter, but we don't lift a finger to get our Marine (Actual combat vet) back from the F***ing Mexicans??
That's *expletive deleted*ed up.
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Leme get this straight...
We trade 5 HVTs for 1 (supposed) deserter, but we don't lift a finger to get our Marine (Actual combat vet) back from the F***ing Mexicans??
That's *expletive deleted*ed up.
We don't have anybody in the country that the Mexican government wants back. In fact they keep sending them over!! ;/
bob
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More of the story is that the HVT's are going to be held in Qatar for awhile. How long is awhile and where they go from there is anyone's guess.
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More of the story is that the HVT's are going to be held in Qatar for awhile. How long is awhile and where they go from there is anyone's guess.
I thought it was a year.
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He deserted his post. He's a traitor, and deserves a firing squad not a trade of HVT's. Piece of *expletive deleted*it traitorous garbage.
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He deserted his post. He's a traitor, and deserves a firing squad not a trade of HVT's. Piece of *expletive deleted* traitorous garbage.
Yep. The more and more I'm reading about it, the more and more it's looking like he's a deserter/traitor, much like the whackos that go over to the North Koreans.
Yet he is getting a hero's welcome.
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The truth doesn't interest Americans. They want a movie plot
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blinders......i don't know if this guy is good or bad, but it disgusts me when an event like this turns political engines.
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To be fair; the propagandists, spin doctors, and professional liars gotta eat too . . .
[/cynicism]
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if we starved them all, the world might get a little boring. :laugh:
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The truth doesn't interest Americans. They want a movie plot
Like Jessica Lynch? Not that she did anything wrong, she just was knocked the *expletive deleted*ck out from the get go in a fight that actually included honest real bravery. And wasn't the only POW. But she's a cute girl from a small town and all that, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_P.O.W.s_in_2003_Invasion_of_Iraq#507th.27s_wrong_turn
The real hero of the 507th?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Miller_(soldier) "Prior to his capture, Miller had stood his ground firing at the Iraqis with a malfunctioning weapon, feeding bullets into it by hand to protect two wounded comrades"
"After he was captured, he was repeatedly questioned about radio frequencies that were written on pieces of paper inside his helmet. "Thinking on his feet, Pfc. Miller told his captors that they were prices for power steering pumps," the release said. "Disgusted, the captors threw the frequencies and his helmet into the fire.""
He's the one that should have been all over the news.
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The real hero of the 507th?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Miller_(soldier) "Prior to his capture, Miller had stood his ground firing at the Iraqis with a malfunctioning weapon, feeding bullets into it by hand to protect two wounded comrades"
"After he was captured, he was repeatedly questioned about radio frequencies that were written on pieces of paper inside his helmet. "Thinking on his feet, Pfc. Miller told his captors that they were prices for power steering pumps," the release said. "Disgusted, the captors threw the frequencies and his helmet into the fire.""
He's the one that should have been all over the news.
He was to some extent at the time but not enough. Yes in my opinion the only one who got the award he deserved.
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Like Jessica Lynch? Not that she did anything wrong, she just was knocked the *expletive deleted* out from the get go in a fight that actually included honest real bravery. And wasn't the only POW. But she's a cute girl from a small town and all that, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_P.O.W.s_in_2003_Invasion_of_Iraq#507th.27s_wrong_turn
The real hero of the 507th?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Miller_(soldier) "Prior to his capture, Miller had stood his ground firing at the Iraqis with a malfunctioning weapon, feeding bullets into it by hand to protect two wounded comrades"
"After he was captured, he was repeatedly questioned about radio frequencies that were written on pieces of paper inside his helmet. "Thinking on his feet, Pfc. Miller told his captors that they were prices for power steering pumps," the release said. "Disgusted, the captors threw the frequencies and his helmet into the fire.""
He's the one that should have been all over the news.
From the wiki page:
"I'm not real worried about awards, The way I look at it, I did my job." Patrick Miller
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http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2014/06/02/bergdahl-they-dont-care-about-the-law-get-over-it/
It just so happens that the Obama administration seems to have broken a law in releasing five high value Islamic terrorists in exchange for Bergdahl. Under the law, Congress was required to be notified before the release of any GITMO detainees.
Law? What law? By now, six years into this drama straight out of James Madison’s worst nightmares, you should be used to Obama administration lawlessness.
The law is a suggestion to this crowd, and usually a nuisance. Law is something to be twisted and reinterpreted. When it stands in the way of progressive policies, it is something to be ignored. The singular theme of the Obama age is lawlessness.
The craziness represented by Robert and Bowe Bergdahl are why the United States overpaid for his release. They are why Obama broke the law to make all the wrong people happy.
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This thing stinks- Anybody see the pic or heard the statements of Bergdahls father? He looks like a muji. And Bergdahls comments? It seems likely the entire thing was set up BY ALL PARTIES INVOLVED as an excuse to release the bad guys.
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...and to get the VA scandal off the news...
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He deserted his post. He's a traitor, and deserves a firing squad not a trade of HVT's. Piece of *expletive deleted* traitorous garbage.
He's a suspect. Try him.
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He's a suspect. Try him.
Obviously the military justice system does not execute people without a trial. ;/
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Obviously the military justice system does not execute people without a trial.
Send him through high threat areas on missions of questionable benefit, like looking for other defectors we can trade prisoners for. That's obviously well within the military's bounds.
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This thing stinks- Anybody see the pic or heard the statements of Bergdahls father? He looks like a muji. And Bergdahls comments? It seems likely the entire thing was set up BY ALL PARTIES INVOLVED as an excuse to release the bad guys.
I like to think of myself as the last person to wear the tinfoil on this sort of thing, but I agree it's awfully weird. There's some talk he "lost the ability to speak English" so they have to say stuff in Pashtun to him or whatever.
And the big weird beard and Islamic utterances of the father did give me some serious WTF-ery too. I guess playing Devil's Advocate, maybe the mother and father are just fruits and nuts, and the son, despite making a go of it in the .mil, didn't fall too far from the tree, which colored his decision to defect, desert, or engage in some half-assed attempt at solo hearts-n-minds work outside the wire.
Or maybe the Obama Admin, State Dept. or whoever's been working on the "deal", getting dad to grow out his beard, and say some Islamic stuff in the Rose Garden next to Obama was part of the "deal", some sort of Taliban ego-stroke.
Who knows?
And with the MSM covering for Obama so hard, does it matter? He'd have to stomp on puppies, or kill a baby on unedited unfiltered YouTube video from multiple random citizens recording on cell phones, or something equally drastic for it to actually be able to touch him by now.
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...and to get the VA scandal off the news...
Leave it to the Obama administration to use a scandal to hide a scandal.....
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He also got promoted to SGT* while in captivity. I'm curious how his packet got before the board.
*It would appear he got E4 as well, but that's pretty much an automatic if you haven't screwed up and have time in service. I can see the command not wanting to admit the kid they spent months searching for might have wandered off, and giving him SPC when the time hit. SGT on the other hand is supposed to have some merit, and schools to get.
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Like Jessica Lynch? Not that she did anything wrong, she just was knocked the *expletive deleted* out from the get go in a fight that actually included honest real bravery. And wasn't the only POW. But she's a cute girl from a small town and all that, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_P.O.W.s_in_2003_Invasion_of_Iraq#507th.27s_wrong_turn
The real hero of the 507th?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Miller_(soldier) "Prior to his capture, Miller had stood his ground firing at the Iraqis with a malfunctioning weapon, feeding bullets into it by hand to protect two wounded comrades"
"After he was captured, he was repeatedly questioned about radio frequencies that were written on pieces of paper inside his helmet. "Thinking on his feet, Pfc. Miller told his captors that they were prices for power steering pumps," the release said. "Disgusted, the captors threw the frequencies and his helmet into the fire.""
He's the one that should have been all over the news.
A co-worker and a customer were discussing this today. They observed that the aforementioned were unarmed, and that Lynch's fellow solders had told the Iraqi hostiles, "Take her. She's useless."
This kind of thing is why I do NOT believe in encouraging the masses to vote. :facepalm:
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He also got promoted to SGT* while in captivity. I'm curious how his packet got before the board.
*It would appear he got E4 as well, but that's pretty much an automatic if you haven't screwed up and have time in service. I can see the command not wanting to admit the kid they spent months searching for might have wandered off, and giving him SPC when the time hit. SGT on the other hand is supposed to have some merit, and schools to get.
From what I heard he got the specialist promotion nearly a year after getting captured.
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http://www.ktrh.com/media/podcast-michael-berry-show-on-ktrh-michaelberry/
Today (6/2/14) in the 5PM hour, Michael Berry interviewed one of his former teammates who was in his unit when he was captured/deserted. He said they found out after he disappeared that he had shipped his computer and other personal items home right before going on on the patrol where he disappeared.
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So, was it Bowe we saw next to el Caudillo or hid dad? I assume it wad Bowe, and couldn't begin to imagine why his personal grooming were so bad.
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Very little about this story adds up at all ???
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He also got promoted to SGT* while in captivity. I'm curious how his packet got before the board.
*It would appear he got E4 as well, but that's pretty much an automatic if you haven't screwed up and have time in service. I can see the command not wanting to admit the kid they spent months searching for might have wandered off, and giving him SPC when the time hit. SGT on the other hand is supposed to have some merit, and schools to get.
POW's get promoted when they hit TIG for the next rank , automatically.
It's how that one kid who was missing and later found dead ended up a SSG by the time his remains were found. I forget the kid's name.
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Learn something new every day.
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Learn something new every day.
The idea is that POWs are unable to complete the requirements to get promoted while they're captive, etc.
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Matt Maupin?
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Matt Maupin?
Yeah that's him. PFC at capture, IIRC.
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Maybe the Democrats who have been blindly following the Marxist in the White House will begin to get a clue.
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Maybe the Democrats who have been blindly following the Marxist in the White House will begin to get a clue.
:rofl:
I think an awful lot of them have gotten a clue about just how un-Messiah this guy is. That's about it.
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Maybe the Democrats who have been blindly following the Marxist in the White House will begin to get a clue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q
I got the Wayne's World "and monkeys might fly out of my butt" clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKociU8t_Q
OK, got it now!
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Be interesting to see if anyone was spending his pay over the course of the past 5 years and if so where the money was going?
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Yeah that's him. PFC at capture, IIRC.
You are correct. He was a PFC when he went MIA and was a SSG when his remains were found. He was from the next county over from mine.
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More of the story is that the HVT's are going to be held in Qatar for awhile. How long is awhile and where they go from there is anyone's guess.
Judging by this, how long before they aren't in Qatar anymore?
http://news.yahoo.com/qatar-allowing-freed-taliban-men-move-freely-country-130028784.html
Also, this $&@&$ing administration says they didn't notify congress (as required by law) because it was time sensitive because the dudes life was in danger.
Huh? Hasn't he been in Taliban custody for years? And his life is in danger right this minute and can't wait...now? Um, what the holy pope on a jet ski frak is that load of steaming horse dung?
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My thoughts exactly, if they can move about Qatar freely there isn't anything stopping them from winding up wherever they want in a short time.
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Have we had any indication on what medal Obama will be pinning on this great hero of the fatherland?
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Have we had any indication on what medal Obama will be pinning on this great hero of the fatherland?
The Hanoi Jane Distinguished Quisling AAAward
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-H71mOiw8vuM%2FUWTz0EV5-3I%2FAAAAAAAAM-I%2F2vx9qEHpSdM%2Fs1600%2FJane%2BHanoi%2BJane%2BFonda%2Bin%2BNorth%2BVietnam%2Bin%2B1972.jpg&hash=d5a9ada09887c005d6848a55fab48caa0cbf469c)
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The Hanoi Jane Distinguished Quisling AAAward
It's a major award!
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It's a major award!
Major traitorous Beeyotch!
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The Hanoi Jane Distinguished Quisling AAAward
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-H71mOiw8vuM%2FUWTz0EV5-3I%2FAAAAAAAAM-I%2F2vx9qEHpSdM%2Fs1600%2FJane%2BHanoi%2BJane%2BFonda%2Bin%2BNorth%2BVietnam%2Bin%2B1972.jpg&hash=d5a9ada09887c005d6848a55fab48caa0cbf469c)
I can just see John Kerry making the presentation with Hanoi Jane as the key note speaker.
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I can just see John Kerry making the presentation with Hanoi Jane as the key note speaker.
If it's Kerry, will he pin the medal, or throw it?
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.dcentertainment.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimce%2F2014%2F06-JUN%2FMAD-Magazine-Trading-Private-Bergdahl_538e1730c295a6.07331124.jpg&hash=556605be22a99c2de9566d3bde4fafa2aa3ce0da)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.dcentertainment.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimce%2F2014%2F06-JUN%2FMAD-Magazine-Trading-Private-Bergdahl_538e1730c295a6.07331124.jpg&hash=556605be22a99c2de9566d3bde4fafa2aa3ce0da)
If MAD did this then it has to be bad, thought the leaned so far left they never need right side tires.
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If MAD did this then it has to be bad, thought the leaned so far left they never need right side tires.
Here you go: http://www.madmagazine.com/blog/2014/06/03/barack-obamas-unfortunate-new-movie (http://www.madmagazine.com/blog/2014/06/03/barack-obamas-unfortunate-new-movie)
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Reality Has No Place In Washington DC
Best comments at 3:06 and 8:12.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceJutR3b1yA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceJutR3b1yA)
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Looks like this will turn uglier for Obama. Fox News is reporting Bergdahl was walking around the Taliban camps carrying a loaded weapon.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/05/exclusive-bergdahl-declared-jihad-secret-documents-show/
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elhanan_Tannenbaum
This story is relevant here.
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harry-reid-bergdahl-controversy-what-difference-does-it-make_794377.html
Yes, Harry Reid really said "What difference does it make?"
:facepalm:
I guess that's the Democratic Party slogan, now. Whoever their pres and veep nominees are in 2016, I'd like a campaign t-shirt for them, with the that slogan featured prominently above and/or beneath their faces.
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harry-reid-bergdahl-controversy-what-difference-does-it-make_794377.html
Yes, Harry Reid really said "What difference does it make?"
:facepalm:
I guess that's the Democratic Party slogan, now. Whoever their pres and veep nominees are in 2016, I'd like a campaign t-shirt for them, with the that slogan featured prominently above and/or beneath their faces.
Might as well include the Republican nominees right alongside the Democratic . . .
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Like Jessica Lynch? Not that she did anything wrong, she just was knocked the *expletive deleted* out from the get go in a fight that actually included honest real bravery. And wasn't the only POW. But she's a cute girl from a small town and all that, right?
Pentagon pulled that stunt for the PR. Also, Lynch's brother was serving at the time. Nothing was explicitly stated or threatened, but a family member is useful leverage. Especially when the Army can assign the guy to any task or make his life a literal hell for the remainder of his term.
She was disabled and injured, then used for propaganda purposes without her involvement. IMHO, she performed her duties with honor, and got screwed over by the brass, same as plenty of other soldiers. Personally, I'm not sure which would be worse. Being screwed over in a negative manner (left for dead, insufficient support, bad intel, etc) or being given high visibility preferential treatment that wasn't warranted.
When Israel attacked the USS Liberty, Commander William L. McGonagle resisted with astonishing flexibility and professionalism. A read of his actions during the incident should be mandatory for naval officers. Afterwards, he was given the Medal of Honor. Dude deserved it twelve ways to Sunday. He never accepted that, and thought it was or could be a bribe.
That's a special kind of hell for any honorable service member.
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1. I have zero animus for J Lynch. She was used by the brass and was not in a position to do much about it. Matter of fact, she has my sympathy for the trauma she endured and the subsequent hail of baloney heaped on her by men who ought to know better.
2. WTH, Army brass? There were plenty of incidents of heroism to buff up and display for PR purposes. No need to fabricate one. These are the sorts of weirdos who could be surrounded by randy members of the Swedish Bikini Team, but insist on loping the mule for satisfaction.
3. I suspect that one big reason they fabricated much about the incident was to distract from other facts that were unseemly and could call into question policies.
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Sigh
http://time.com/2826442/taliban-kidnappings-bergdahl/
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One thing that irritates me about the 'leave no man behind' meme is that we have knowingly done so in the past. I have read quite a few books about the Cold War recon and espionage efforts. The USA had several recon planes shot down over or near the Soviet Union and the PRC. There have been eyewitness reports, some of questionable validity, of American airmen being held as prisoners in Soviet and PRC prison camps. Apparently, with the fall of the Soviet Union and the opening of the archives, we are reasonably certain that no live prisoners from this era are still around, but I would bet cash money that we knew at the time that captured American airmen were being held by the Soviets and PRC and we left them there.
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It's only a recent one. I never heard it from when I first enlisted until I came of active duty (1983-1991), and I'm pretty sure I don't remember it when I was in the reserves. It was only when the Army came up with it's Values that it became a meme. But before that it was always "We'll box up whatever bits of you we can find and ship those home to your mother." And that only started during the Korean War. Prior to that everyone was buried near where they fell. (A corner of some foreign field that is forever England...), although the US did repatriate WWI and WWII remains after those wars at the family's request.
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I personally don't get it. If I was captured I'd certainly feel better knowing that my side would make every effort to not forget me and get me back, there are limits. Maybe it's my duty to stay captured than get a bunch more people killed/captured rescuing me a la TF Baum. Then again I am lax on my plan to marry flag officer's daughters so I probably wouldn't get that consideration. I guess it would be nice to be take home if I was dead, but really I personally don't care at that point. I'd much rather know that no living comrades got otherwise trying to carry me home.
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Then again I am lax on my plan to marry flag officer's daughters so I probably wouldn't get that consideration.
One from each side? That could work.
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It's only a recent one. I never heard it from when I first enlisted until I came of active duty (1983-1991), and I'm pretty sure I don't remember it when I was in the reserves. It was only when the Army came up with it's Values that it became a meme. But before that it was always "We'll box up whatever bits of you we can find and ship those home to your mother." And that only started during the Korean War. Prior to that everyone was buried near where they fell. (A corner of some foreign field that is forever England...), although the US did repatriate WWI and WWII remains after those wars at the family's request.
The positive thing in regards to this is that the burial sites are considered US soil.
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The positive thing in regards to this is that the burial sites are considered US soil.
Shh! If people realize that, they'll be digging up graves to have their anchor babies.