Drunk Driving Now Legal in NYC

[Ben]

As long as you're an illegal alien. I guess it's a new definition of "diplomatic immunity".

http://twitchy.com/jacobb-38/2017/01/29/outrageous-did-deblasio-just-give-undocumenteds-the-green-light-to-commit-crimes-in-nyc/

[Perd Hapley]

They keep finding new ways to make Trump look like the reasonable one. I'm impressed.

[dm1333]

Just to make sure I have this right, if you are here illegally you can break the law, drive drunk or commit grand larceny and not get turned over to the feds for prosecution?  And if you are a legal immigrant or citizen you get prosecuted?

And drunk driving is not a serious crime according to Deblabbio. 

[Scout26]

So the magic words in NYC are "Yo no hablo ingles".  Works as a get out of jail free card.   Also make sure you have no identifying information on you.  So just leave that wallet at home, but you can bring your heater with you... 

[Hawkmoon]

So the magic words in NYC are "Yo no hablo ingles".  Works as a get out of jail free card.   Also make sure you have no identifying information on you.  So just leave that wallet at home, but you can bring your heater with you... 

And all this time I've been waiting for some way to get a carry permit that's recognized in New York City before going there. If only I had known ... it's not what's in your wallet that matters, it's where you leave your wallet when you go to the Big Apple.

[MechAg94]

The sad thing is I have heard stories about this sort of thing in Houston also.  If you get in a car wreck and the other person is an illegal, you better hope you have uninsured motorist coverage.  Will the illegal get arrested or fined for failing to have insurance?  Not likely. 


Warning:  thread veer below

“drunk driving that does not lead to any other negative outcome” is not a serious offense.

Is that really untrue?  Should drunk driving be pretty much a felony if nothing else happens?  I mean for everyone, not illegals.  If you have no record of such violations, why should you get thrown under the bus for it?  Especially when it seems I always hear about people with multiple DUI convictions who are still driving.  Once you cause a wreck or can't stay on the road, that is different IMO.  I think this is an emotional issue that needs to be handled differently than it is now.  I guess we have covered that before.

[mtnbkr]

Should drunk driving be pretty much a felony if nothing else happens?  I mean for everyone, not illegals.

I agree.  When I was in grad school and working in the local court system, I saw numerous people get DUI convictions because they had one too many drinks or did something as innocuous as move a vehicle from one side of the yard to the other with two wheels in their yard and the other two on the blacktop of a country road (not driving erratically, just moving the vehicle after having a few lawnmower beers).  I personally witnessed the latter example in court.  Another observation was that the poor or uneducated were disproportionately convicted for minor DUIs while raging drunks getting DWIs managed to avoid serious punishment.

Let's not forget how the threshold for "drunk" keeps dropping to the point that you're at risk after a single drink.

I think this is an emotional issue that needs to be handled differently than it is now.  

Yup.  Everyone has their pet example of a friend who died because of a drunk driver (as do I), forgetting that the law is applied unequally and tends to come down hard on the first time offender while doing nothing to stop the repeat offenders who just don't care anymore.

Chris

[De Selby]

I agree.  When I was in grad school and working in the local court system, I saw numerous people get DUI convictions because they had one too many drinks or did something as innocuous as move a vehicle from one side of the yard to the other with two wheels in their yard and the other two on the blacktop of a country road (not driving erratically, just moving the vehicle after having a few lawnmower beers).  I personally witnessed the latter example in court.  Another observation was that the poor or uneducated were disproportionately convicted for minor DUIs while raging drunks getting DWIs managed to avoid serious punishment.

Let's not forget how the threshold for "drunk" keeps dropping to the point that you're at risk after a single drink.
Yup.  Everyone has their pet example of a friend who died because of a drunk driver (as do I), forgetting that the law is applied unequally and tends to come down hard on the first time offender while doing nothing to stop the repeat offenders who just don't care anymore.

Chris

This.  It's because in an effort to avoid discretion and the corruption that comes with it, DUI has become divorced from its safety purpose.

[MechAg94]

I think the illegal drunk driver is just a symptom of the whole issue (not immigration).  With the drunk driving issue, we do a poor job of identifying who it is that is causing the accidents and fatalities and directing the punishment appropriately at them.  

We do that with stuff like speeding.  The people who go over 25 MPH over the speed limit or speeding through school zones are punished more.  Reckless driving will get you arrested.  People going 8 MPH over the limit are rarely even pulled over down here.  Why?  Because they aren't causing the accidents.  I have said it before, but the guy who breathes a 0.09 on the breathalyzer most likely did not get in an accident and was driving normally (if not as good as he normally would).  

[MechAg94]

This.  It's because in an effort to avoid discretion and the corruption that comes with it, DUI has become divorced from its safety purpose.

That is a good turn of phrase. 

[MechAg94]

On the immigration side, what stories like this underscore for me is we have no idea just how many smaller scale crimes and general accidents are being done by illegals because cities like NY are not arresting them or citing them for violations.  It gets back to the debate on the overall cost of illegal immigration.  We don't know what it is because big pieces of it are deliberately hidden or ignored. 

[Firethorn]

I have said it before, but the guy who breathes a 0.09 on the breathalyzer most likely did not get in an accident and was driving normally (if not as good as he normally would).

Get into an argument with your spouse?  Have a bad day at work?  Didn't get a full nights sleep, on ~5 hours?  Have a cold?

Congratulations, you're probably driving like you had a .09 BAC.

A number of states have passed "super-drunk" type laws where the penalties shoot up if you have multiples of the legal limit. 
IE over .08 is still serious, but no where near as bad as blowing over a .16, much less .24.  .24 being where they generally find you in your vehicle that's slammed into a pole or tree, of course.

[wmenorr67]

I believe when I got my DUI/DWI I blew a .14.

[KD5NRH]

A number of states have passed "super-drunk" type laws where the penalties shoot up if you have multiples of the legal limit. 
IE over .08 is still serious, but no where near as bad as blowing over a .16, much less .24.  .24 being where they generally find you in your vehicle that's slammed into a pole or tree, of course.

Ex cop I used to work at had one woman blow a .32 and she was still able to walk.  Took her to the hospital to confirm it, they got .30 by the time they got around to her, then wouldn't let her out of the ER until she'd dropped below .16.

Personally, I'd like to see the minimum go back to .10 or even .12, but with a mandatory 30 days in jail and 180 days license suspension, plus more jail and suspension for every .02 over the minimum, doubling for subsequent offenses, and permanent license revocation on strike three.  Then differentiate between the guy that lost his license for administrative BS and the one who lost it for legitimate safety reasons, and make it a felony for the latter to drive at all.

[Firethorn]

Ex cop I used to work at had one woman blow a .32 and she was still able to walk.  Took her to the hospital to confirm it, they got .30 by the time they got around to her, then wouldn't let her out of the ER until she'd dropped below .16.

While amazing that she could still walk, I'm willing to bet that she was hella impaired.

And yeah, results higher than .24 is certainly possible, as "how aren't you dead?" levels come up regularly.

I wouldn't object to raising the level back to .1, and while I think I'd prefer .05 more than .02 per step, that's more a matter of optimization than a real difference.

And yes, you need to actually enforce driving on a revoked license.

[KD5NRH]

And yes, you need to actually enforce driving on a revoked license.

The problem is that many states will revoke (or refuse to renew) for all sorts of not-really-driving-driving-safety-related reasons, and then not differentiate between those and people who have clearly shown they are an unacceptable danger on the road when caught driving.  I don't care if Billy Bob forgot to renew his license or hasn't paid a 5-over ticket in another state.  Give him a fix-it ticket or a $20 fine.  If he's suspended for his second DUI and still cruising around, throw his butt in jail for the remainder of the suspension plus something for stupidity.  If he's drunk too, then multiply the sentence by BACx100.

Instead, the guy with the unpaid ticket generally sits out a few days in jail, while the drunk has enough on the line to immediately call a bondsman and a lawyer, and be back on the street by morning.

[MechAg94]

I am not big on mandatory penalties unless you are talking about 2nd and 3rd offenses.  Getting hit once can happen to a lot of people.  Getting hit 2 or 3 times generally indicates you are part of the problem.

[KD5NRH]

I am not big on mandatory penalties unless you are talking about 2nd and 3rd offenses.  Getting hit once can happen to a lot of people.  Getting hit 2 or 3 times generally indicates you are part of the problem.

Once at <.12, OK.  Probation, maybe a hardship exception on the suspension.  At .16+, no sympathy.