Author Topic: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site  (Read 102185 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2010, 02:35:24 PM »
dude  they opened it a month after 9/11   how did wnd and prison planet miss this?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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taurusowner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2010, 02:38:48 PM »
Nitrogen, why did they reject Governor Patterson's offer to use state funds to help them find another site?

HankB

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2010, 02:54:38 PM »
Oh, and why is it liberals want to appease Muslims so bad?  They're willing to piss all over Christians....but the Muslims must be appeased at all costs?
For the same reason that animal-rights fanatics are more willing to throw red paint on elderly women wearing fur coats than they are on Hell's Angels wearing leather.

Look, some people are claiming that this mosque is being built by moderate Moslems as some sort of "outreach." Yet they want to name it "Cordoba House" after a huge mosque complex converted from a former church in Spain after the Moslems conquered it. It's a symbol of Moslem conquest.

There's nothing "moderate" about any of this - especially when you consider that Osama Bin Laden, in one of his post-9/11 rants - cited Islam's loss of Cordoba House as one of the reasons for 9/11. It's a deliberate, calculated affront to all infidels in America.

To put it another way . . . Japan and the USA fought a very nasty war in the 20th century. Today, Japan and the USA are allies . . . there's a Japanese embassy, Japanese consulates and cultural centers . . . we generally get along OK. Like Americans and many Moslems.

Now imagine if a group of wealthy Japanese businessmen proposed building a Japanese Naval Aviation Memorial on Ford Island near the USS Arizona.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 03:04:39 PM by HankB »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2010, 02:56:47 PM »
Now imagine if a group of wealthy Japanese businessmen proposed building a Japanese Naval Aviation Memorial on Ford Island near the USS Arizona.

didn't the japanese buy most of hawaii?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2010, 02:59:12 PM »
except this latest cash bailout involves them on their original plot of land
Not exactly.  The current deal allows the church going up on the same ground if the church is willing to allow the city to build a bomb-sniffing center underground below the church.  

If the church doesn't agree, the city says they'll simply take the property they need through eminent domain and build the bomb center anyway, and the church can go pound sand.

The whole charade is part of an ongoing effort by the port authority to get the church to leave, to move away from ground zero.  It's standard land development BS, make staying so unpalatable that people simply agree to leave.

taurusowner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2010, 02:59:24 PM »
Now imagine if a group of wealthy Japanese businessmen proposed building a Japanese Naval Aviation Memorial on Ford Island near the USS Arizona.

didn't the japanese buy most of hawaii?

So?  His question remains. Now imagine if a group of wealthy Japanese businessmen proposed building a Japanese Naval Aviation Memorial on Ford Island near the USS Arizona.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #106 on: August 16, 2010, 03:07:13 PM »
if they owned the land how would you stop em?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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taurusowner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #107 on: August 16, 2010, 03:10:25 PM »
if they owned the land how would you stop em?

His statement was not about how to stop them.  It was about how inappropriate the contruction would be.

RevDisk

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #108 on: August 16, 2010, 03:16:11 PM »
So?  His question remains. Now imagine if a group of wealthy Japanese businessmen proposed building a Japanese Naval Aviation Memorial on Ford Island near the USS Arizona.

 =D   So I best not mention how many Shinto shrines are within a five mile radius?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #109 on: August 16, 2010, 03:17:47 PM »
or that its joked that hawaii is a japanese territory
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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taurusowner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #110 on: August 16, 2010, 03:18:51 PM »
=D   So I best not mention how many Shinto shrines are within a five mile radius?

Already been addressed in this thread.  There are mosques within a few miles from ground zero already.  There is a big difference between a few miles away, and almost directly on the site.

SADShooter

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #111 on: August 16, 2010, 03:29:38 PM »
I've never read or heard it argued that Shinto motivated the attack on Pearl Harbor. I have little doubt that this will happen. The pertinent question seems to center on the appropriateness of building the Cordoba Center at the proposed location relative to the motivation for doing so.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #112 on: August 16, 2010, 04:49:38 PM »
if they owned the land how would you stop em?
Ya mean if I was the city and I wanted to stop the Orthodox church from going back up?

First I'd try to get the land re-zoned.  A phone call from the mayor's office to the zoning board usually does the trick.  In this case of the Orthodox church being rebuilt, that may not work.  That land has been used as a church for decades, so it'd look bad to suddenly claim that location isn't suitable for a church.

Second, I'd try the ol' carrot and stick.  I'd offer a big cash payoff if they move (hey, it isn't my money I'm spending, so I'd be generous) coupled with threats of legal action, condemnation, eminent domain, etc.

Third, probably public pressure, bad PR, maybe also try to yank their business license if they need one. If I was a liberal city, I could probably come up with goons to picket the place, boycotts, that sort of thing.  Threaten tax audits, inspections, regulators, or whatever is applicable.  For a church, yanking their non-profit status would work nicely.

Fourth, I'd grudgingly give up and let 'em build their stupid church.  But being a petty city government, I'd engage in all sorts of petty BS to stick it too 'em.  My citizens deserve a new sewer treatment plant, let's build one right next door (or a bomb screening center underground right below).

These are the standard real estate development hurdles that everyone has to deal with in urban environments.  Churches (whether Greek Orthodox or Muslim) are no different.  They are not immune, 1A or not.

As relates to the mosque, the issue should have ended at the zoning board (i.e. zoning for the mosque should have been denied), but when it came time for the mayor to make that phone call, he sided in favor of the mosque instead of in favor of his city.  Sadly, Bloomy doesn't have the same fortitude of his predecessor.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 04:56:57 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

MechAg94

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #113 on: August 16, 2010, 05:11:36 PM »
=D   So I best not mention how many Shinto shrines are within a five mile radius?
Doesn't a 5 mile radius include most of the island? 
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #114 on: August 16, 2010, 05:17:10 PM »
Quote
In hosting the iftar, Mr. Obama was following a White House tradition that, while sporadic, dates to Thomas Jefferson, who held a sunset dinner for the first Muslim ambassador to the United States.
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: August 13, 2010

Regarding this quote from the article in the OP, there is a bit more to the story.

I was listening to Medved this afternoon and he mentioned some facts on this.  First, Obama said the guy was from Tunisia, but Tunisia wasn't a country then.  Also, the "ambassador" was not really an ambassador, but was an representative of the Barbary Pirates come over to negotiate the release of US citizens and ships held by the pirates.  Jefferson apparently delayed his normal afternoon dinner until sunset to accommodate the man.  To call it an iftar is a stretch. 

It might be a small error, but IMO it is up there with the 57 states comment from the campaign.   =D
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

HankB

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #115 on: August 16, 2010, 07:16:16 PM »
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: August 13, 2010

Regarding this quote from the article in the OP, there is a bit more to the story.

I was listening to Medved this afternoon and he mentioned some facts on this.  First, Obama said the guy was from Tunisia, but Tunisia wasn't a country then.  Also, the "ambassador" was not really an ambassador, but was an representative of the Barbary Pirates come over to negotiate the release of US citizens and ships held by the pirates.  Jefferson apparently delayed his normal afternoon dinner until sunset to accommodate the man.  To call it an iftar is a stretch. 

It might be a small error, but IMO it is up there with the 57 states comment from the campaign.   =D
A couple of years ago, much was made of the fact that among Jefferson's books was a Koran - showing that " . . . Jefferson learned about and respected Islam."

Right . . . he learned so much about Islam that his reaction was to make war on the Islamic states of the Barbary Coast.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #116 on: August 16, 2010, 07:22:01 PM »
A couple of years ago, much was made of the fact that among Jefferson's books was a Koran - showing that " . . . Jefferson learned about and respected Islam."


My bookshelves have a whole slew of false scriptures, pinko-lit, gun control propaganda, etc. A few months ago, I couldn't resist buying some yard-sale book about the global ice-age apocalypse that will destroy us all in the year 2000.  :laugh:
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Regolith

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2010, 08:00:49 PM »
Right . . . he learned so much about Islam that his reaction was to make war on the Islamic states of the Barbary Coast.

He made war on them because they were pirates, not because they were Muslim. 
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longeyes

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #118 on: August 16, 2010, 09:33:56 PM »
From HankB:
Quote
For the same reason that animal-rights fanatics are more willing to throw red paint on elderly women wearing fur coats than they are on Hell's Angels wearing leather.

And for the same reason the feminist movement is oddly silent on the abuses of Islam.

Some says liberals are affected by a variant of "The Stockholm Syndrome."  That is too kind.  Cowardice is cowardice.
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BReilley

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #119 on: August 17, 2010, 02:23:58 AM »
My bookshelves have a whole slew of false scriptures, pinko-lit, gun control propaganda, etc. A few months ago, I couldn't resist buying some yard-sale book about the global ice-age apocalypse that will destroy us all in the year 2000.  :laugh:

Indeed, I love that crap!  For example, Goodwill has blessed me with a couple of shirts - which I wear too rarely - which warn of the disaster to come when 1999 rolls over to 2000 :D

Perd Hapley

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #120 on: August 17, 2010, 07:17:31 AM »
Indeed, I love that crap!  For example, Goodwill has blessed me with a couple of shirts - which I wear too rarely - which warn of the disaster to come when 1999 rolls over to 2000 :D

So jealous!
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HankB

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #121 on: August 17, 2010, 08:28:03 AM »
Indeed, I love that crap!  For example, Goodwill has blessed me with a couple of shirts - which I wear too rarely - which warn of the disaster to come when 1999 rolls over to 2000 :D
And December 21, 2012 will be almost as bad as Y2K was!
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

MechAg94

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #122 on: August 17, 2010, 08:58:01 AM »
A couple of years ago, much was made of the fact that among Jefferson's books was a Koran - showing that " . . . Jefferson learned about and respected Islam."

Right . . . he learned so much about Islam that his reaction was to make war on the Islamic states of the Barbary Coast.
Actually, the comment on the show was that Jefferson didn't like Islam at all.  They mentioned that the envoy requested housing be provided and actually asked for concubines while in the US.  That was declined.  You can imagine that Jefferson and others didn't like him very much. 

However, the concept of "millions for defense, but not a penny for tribute" is all about anti-piracy and standing up for yourself, not about Islam at all.  The amazing thing that we managed to do it with just a handful of ships and marines. 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #123 on: August 17, 2010, 09:20:37 AM »
Actually, the comment on the show was that Jefferson didn't like Islam at all.  They mentioned that the envoy requested housing be provided and actually asked for concubines while in the US.  That was declined.  You can imagine that Jefferson and others didn't like him very much. 

However, the concept of "millions for defense, but not a penny for tribute" is all about anti-piracy and standing up for yourself, not about Islam at all.  The amazing thing that we managed to do it with just a handful of ships and marines

Nothing amazing about that at all!  :P
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
« Reply #124 on: August 17, 2010, 09:21:59 AM »
Nothing amazing about that at all!  :P

i saw that coming!  was figuring you to say you were surprised they sent so many marines
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I