Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

One side violated unconstitutional  eavesdropping law, and the other committed assault and (possibly, perhaps attempted?) vandalism. So which side is "right"?


what do you imagine is unconstitutional?

[longeyes]

It is not just a "Muslim thing;" it is about invidious cultural practices within what is a tribal, collectivist, and authoritarian matrix.  Islam happens to be a particulary obvious and dramatic example, that's all, as well as one growing in political and economic sway.

"Fairly rare incidents" of cultural malfeasance?  Now that is absurd.  There is nothing "fairly rare" about the pervasive acts of brutality, terrorism, and prejudice we see in more than one alien culture.

Because we have a Constitution we are not required to be stupid and blind.  This is not about religious freedom, it is about what constitutes viable religious practice and what kind of impact a "religion" can have on the body politic.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

There are emerging reports of an Orthodox Christian church, originally built a century ago, that was destroyed on 9/11.  The city has blocked them from rebuilding their church.

I don't have any cites, but if this is true it blows a gaping whole into the notion that we're singling out Muslims, discriminating based on their religion, or violating anyone's religious freedom.

[makattak]

There are emerging reports of an Orthodox Christian church, originally built a century ago, that was destroyed on 9/11.  The city has blocked them from rebuilding their church.

I don't have any cites, but if this is true it blows a gaping whole into the notion that we're singling out Muslims, discriminating based on their religion, or violating anyone's religious freedom.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Bagli,%20Charles%20V

Hmmmm

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

  There is nothing "fairly rare" about the pervasive acts of brutality, terrorism, and prejudice we see in more than one alien culture.


ironic post of the day

  
Because we have a Constitution we are not required to be stupid and blind.  This is not about religious freedom, it is about what constitutes viable religious practice and what kind of impact a "religion" can have on the body politic.

with this for icing?   priceless

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Bagli,%20Charles%20V

Hmmmm

The church wants the authority to provide roughly $55 million toward the estimated $75 million cost of rebuilding St. Nicholas. The Port Authority in turn wants the church to scale back its plans, move the location slightly and raise more money privately.

“The church’s role in the rebuilding effort is complementary, not adversarial,” Mr. Koutsomitis said. “We need a resolution on the land so we can move on with the design. We’re talking about a modest facility, larger than what was there before, but modest by any standard.”


yea  7 times the size of the old church is modest

[makattak]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html

Look at that, they want to build a "a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero" as well.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html

Look at that, they want to build a "a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero" as well.

and they only want 20 mill of our cash to do it

[makattak]

and they only want 20 mill of our cash to do it

It's a lot of money, yes. Someone wants to build a "bomb-screening center for trucks, buses and cars entering the area" under the church, though.

[Harrison Bergeron]

I'll be for this as soon as I can open a Wal-Mart next door to Kabba.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's a lot of money, yes. Someone wants to build a "bomb-screening center for trucks, buses and cars entering the area" under the church, though.

that money is not for that  and in the latest location the screening center is no longer an issue  the bill for that iteration was 35 mill

[longeyes]

I'd love, Cassandra, for you to explain your view of irony to all of us.  I'd also like you to define for us what constitutes a "religion" as opposed to a form of pathology.  As for the anything but "fairly rare" incidents you seem to take exception to I point you toward the rampant criminal abuses occurring in illegal immigrant culture in America.  No one with facts would describe what's going on crime-wise as "fairly rare."

I realize you are an unctuous fellow, by the way, but that can be rather oily, you know.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

that money is not for that  and in the latest location the screening center is no longer an issue  the bill for that iteration was 35 mill

The money is to entice the church into giving up their land at ground zero moving farther away.  The city doesn't want a private church right there.

This is all fairly routine for developments in heavy urban areas, and has nothing to do with religious discrimination.

[kgbsquirrel]

One side violated unconstitutional  eavesdropping law, and the other committed assault and (possibly, perhaps attempted?) vandalism. So which side is "right"?


what do you imagine is unconstitutional?

Do we really need to rehash for the Nth time the right of the citizen to film, photograph or in any way record what is observable from a public thoroughfare and the corresponding SCOTUS decisions? Less intentionally obtuse comments would be beneficial to the discussion.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Do we really need to rehash for the Nth time the right of the citizen to film, photograph or in any way record what is observable from a public thoroughfare and the corresponding SCOTUS decisions? Less intentionally obtuse comments would be beneficial to the discussion.

absent a ruling striking down michigan law?  and bear in mind this was an event where it was made clear repeatedly that their taping was unwelcome.  .  wasn't this festival run by a private group?  don't they have a right to exclude who they want and similarly set rules for conduct at their event?!LIBERTY!  Or is jackbooted thuggery permissible so long as you attach "in jesus's name"? i was raised catholic and consider myself a christian  the biggest downside to that is other "christians"  god save me from them.  the druids muslims et al i get along with just fine   .why do i only run into christians with a stick up em?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The money is to entice the church into giving up their land at ground zero moving farther away.  The city doesn't want a private church right there.

This is all fairly routine for developments in heavy urban areas, and has nothing to do with religious discrimination.

except this latest cash bailout involves them on their original plot of land

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I'd love, Cassandra, for you to explain your view of irony to all of us.  I'd also like you to define for us what constitutes a "religion" as opposed to a form of pathology.  As for the anything but "fairly rare" incidents you seem to take exception to I point you toward the rampant criminal abuses occurring in illegal immigrant culture in America.

too easy
  a  did you really speak out against predjudice?  i almost choked had to read it twice
  b neither you or i get to define a religion,  at least not for anyone else  , well maybe i can for my kids till they tell me to get stuffed. if at some time a religion breaks the law we have a mechanism for that.
  c  and did you see your very own sheriff deevers statement on crime in his county? vis a vis the illegal involvement?  since my sites are tainted look it up yourself  may of this year  i think it was the 6th  maybe the 10th  its out there with video and everything.  hint  its not on wnd

[longeyes]

I'm not defining a religion, friend, I'm looking at actions taken in the name of religion and identifying praxis rather than theory.  "Religions" that become plenary social and political systems are no longer a set of spiritual practices but something else and must be considered in a wider context.

Speak out against prejudice?  No, I'm identifying it.  Tolerance for the intolerant is not anti-prejudice, it's rank stupidity, subversive of one's own best principles (on which we probably agree).

Sheriff Deevers doesn't say the last word on that problem.  The statistics are out there.  Try the LAPD.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i showed ya mine  what lapd stats?  real stats  not some email from cair

[Firethorn]

This is all fairly routine for developments in heavy urban areas, and has nothing to do with religious discrimination.

My thought; also 'close to ground zero' is relatively imprecise in a big city - there's limited properties available for construction, costs are high, etc...

Sadly, due to buildings damaged during the event, a fairly large portion of 'available properties' are indeed 'close' to ground zero.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i haven't been able to go there  i'm still messed up by going near the pentagon  was there a couple days after and i am disturbed still

[Nitrogen]

Quick question:  how do ya'll feel about the mosque inside the pentagon, which opened there in october, 2001?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Quick question:  how do ya'll feel about the mosque inside the pentagon, which opened there in october, 2001?

oh   now you did it

[longeyes]

"This Islamic prayer center, the first of its kind in the Marine Corps, is really an extension of our ethos, (the) ethos that we take care of one another." - Commandant Gen. Michael Hagee at Quantico.

So when is a mosque not a prayer center and vice-versa?

[makattak]

Quick question:  how do ya'll feel about the mosque inside the pentagon, which opened there in october, 2001?

Put in by the Marines and under the control of the US Military? Not a problem.

Funded by terrorist backers and dedicated to celebrating Islam's victory over the Great Satan? Quite the problem.