Author Topic: Father hits naked boyfriend in daughters bedroom, now the DAD is facing charges?  (Read 52477 times)

The Annoyed Man

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All visible penises in my house will be treated as hostile...

i might put a sign in the yard  add subject to removal and confiscation

Headless Thompson Gunner

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I think Micro makes an excellent point.  There are plenty of things you can and should do to a naked boy you find in your daughter's bedroom, but trying to kill him isn't one of them.  It may be legal for you to use lethal force, but that doesn't change the fact that it's darned stupid. 

Chase his ass out of the house and down the street, swing a pipe at him, scare the daylights out of him, whatever.  But shoot him?  Are you nuts?  How will that improve the situation any?  If nothing else, it'll lead to a lifetime of psychiatrist bills for your daughter.  She'll never be normal again after one of her first real sexual experiences ends with her sweetie's brains splattered all over herself and her bed.

Consensual sex at age 16 isn't something that deserves a lethal response.  Unless there's an actual reason to believe that he's attacking your daughter, lethal force is just plain stupid. 

Balog

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Balog, there's an old joke that goes something like this:

An expectant father was in the waiting room for the blessed event, when the nurse came in and congratulated him on his new baby boy.

The father jumped into the air, whooping and shouting, and gave the nurse a cigar.

The nurse asked him if he would have done the same were it a girl instead of a boy.

The father replied, "No, probably not."

The nurse asked, "Why not?"

"Because, when he becomes a teenager, I only have to worry about just one penis.  Were it a girl, I'd have to worry about all of them!"

(With apologies to Mtnbkr, et al...)

Yeah, I've heard it.

If that attitude is carried over into real life, you end up with guys you've never heard of in your daughters bed. I'm sure thinking your 16 y/o daughter is just as sweet and innocent as she was at 8 is a comforting fantasy, but it's stupid. Teens are horny; note I said teens, not just male teens.Threatening the random boy your girl drags home won't do anything; trying to make your daughter mature and responsible might. And "I'm going to freak out and horribly embarrass you by acting like a caricature of overprotective Dad" is not a good way to do that.
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Firethorn

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I think Micro makes an excellent point.  There are plenty of things you can and should do to a naked boy you find in your daughter's bedroom, but trying to kill him isn't one of them.  It may be legal for you to use lethal force, but that doesn't change the fact that it's darned stupid. 

I don't think the guy was trying to kill him.  While WE consider a pipe strike to the head lethal force, many people wouldn't, not in the same way as they would a gun.

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Chase his ass out of the house and down the street, swing a pipe at him, scare the daylights out of him, whatever.  But shoot him?  Are you nuts?  How will that improve the situation any?  If nothing else, it'll lead to a lifetime of psychiatrist bills for your daughter.  She'll never be normal again after one of her first real sexual experiences ends with her sweetie's brains splattered all over herself and her bed.

Going by the article, this girl's first real sexual experience was over a year before the incident...

Still, having her first 'boyfriend''s brains blown out of his head would be traumatic.  This is why we should be understanding parents and stress about how daddy/mommy gets with unknown intruders to the home, especially at night.  That you expect to know any friends, especially of the boy/girl variety.

Quote
Consensual sex at age 16 isn't something that deserves a lethal response.  Unless there's an actual reason to believe that he's attacking your daughter, lethal force is just plain stupid. 

Naked on the bed when you didn't know he was there, or even recognize him, is getting into 'good shoot' territory.  The pipe to the head could have been prevented if the daughter had simply introduced the boyfriend to her father.  Then, when the father bursts into the room, he at least recognizes him as the boyfriend.  Result - yelling, escort out(preferably with clothes), intense talks with daughter and boyfriend.  Not headsplitting blows or gunshots.

update:  I agree with Balog's statement.  That's what I mean by being an 'understanding' parent.  You want to remain somebody your kids can go to - whatever their problem.

Perd Hapley

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I think Micro makes an excellent point.  There are plenty of things you can and should do to a naked boy you find in your daughter's bedroom, but trying to kill him isn't one of them.  It may be legal for you to use lethal force, but that doesn't change the fact that it's darned stupid. 

Chase his ass out of the house and down the street, swing a pipe at him, scare the daylights out of him, whatever.  But shoot him?  Are you nuts?  How will that improve the situation any?  If nothing else, it'll lead to a lifetime of psychiatrist bills for your daughter.  She'll never be normal again after one of her first real sexual experiences ends with her sweetie's brains splattered all over herself and her bed.

Consensual sex at age 16 isn't something that deserves a lethal response.  Unless there's an actual reason to believe that he's attacking your daughter, lethal force is just plain stupid. 

I don't think anyone here really thinks that way.  Microbalrog is attacking a straw man.
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Balog

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I don't think anyone here really thinks that way.  Microbalrog is attacking a straw man.

unless you have some sort of psychic scapegoat mind reading powers, it's a bit odd to say "Well, they may have repeatedly said it, with no smilies or other indication they're joking, but they don't really mean it."
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Perd Hapley

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Ah, but I DO have psychic scapegoat mind reading powers.  How do you think I always win all the arguments around here, anyway? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Balog

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Ah, but I DO have psychic scapegoat mind reading powers.  How do you think I always win all the arguments around here, anyway? 

Dark magick? Unholy covenant?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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I think Micro makes an excellent point.  There are plenty of things you can and should do to a naked boy you find in your daughter's bedroom, but trying to kill him isn't one of them.  It may be legal for you to use lethal force, but that doesn't change the fact that it's darned stupid. 

I don't think the guy was trying to kill him.  While WE consider a pipe strike to the head lethal force, many people wouldn't, not in the same way as they would a gun.

Quote
Chase his ass out of the house and down the street, swing a pipe at him, scare the daylights out of him, whatever.  But shoot him?  Are you nuts?  How will that improve the situation any?  If nothing else, it'll lead to a lifetime of psychiatrist bills for your daughter.  She'll never be normal again after one of her first real sexual experiences ends with her sweetie's brains splattered all over herself and her bed.

Going by the article, this girl's first real sexual experience was over a year before the incident...

Still, having her first 'boyfriend''s brains blown out of his head would be traumatic.  This is why we should be understanding parents and stress about how daddy/mommy gets with unknown intruders to the home, especially at night.  That you expect to know any friends, especially of the boy/girl variety.

Quote
Consensual sex at age 16 isn't something that deserves a lethal response.  Unless there's an actual reason to believe that he's attacking your daughter, lethal force is just plain stupid. 

Naked on the bed when you didn't know he was there, or even recognize him, is getting into 'good shoot' territory.  The pipe to the head could have been prevented if the daughter had simply introduced the boyfriend to her father.  Then, when the father bursts into the room, he at least recognizes him as the boyfriend.  Result - yelling, escort out(preferably with clothes), intense talks with daughter and boyfriend.  Not headsplitting blows or gunshots.

update:  I agree with Balog's statement.  That's what I mean by being an 'understanding' parent.  You want to remain somebody your kids can go to - whatever their problem.
My remarks were in response to the folks in this thread who seem to take an attitude of "ZOMG if anyone is in my daughter's room without my permission I'm going for slide lock!!!"  That attitude amuses me.  In a situation like that, with a teenage daughter and boyfriend getting cuddly vs a trigger happy Rambo parent threatening to kill people, who's behaving more maturely?

If there's a boy naked in your teenage daughter's room, there are long odds that it's an attack of some sort.  It is far, far, far more likely that he's naked there because your daughter wants him that way. 

The "he's in my house and he's naked so I'm gonna waste him" attitude is wrong.  It may be legal to use lethal force in such a circumstance, but it seems like unjustified murder to me.  The boy would end up dead for no reason other than that the irrational father couldn't cope with his daughter becoming a normal adult woman.

Perd Hapley

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Since I don't have psychic scapegoat mind reading powers (yet), maybe those who plan to use lethal force on any boy who looks south of their daughter's neck should say so unequivocally right now.  Be heard! 
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Gewehr98

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My remarks were in response to the folks in this thread who seem to take an attitude of "ZOMG if anyone is in my daughter's room without my permission I'm going for slide lock!!!"  That attitude amuses me.  In a situation like that, with a teenage daughter and boyfriend getting cuddly vs a trigger happy Rambo parent threatening to kill people, who's behaving more maturely?

If there's a boy naked in your teenage daughter's room, there are long odds that it isn't an attack of any sort.  It is far, far, far more likely that he's naked there because your daughter wants him that way. 

The "he's in my house and he's naked so I'm gonna waste him" attitude is wrong.  It may be legal to use lethal force in such a circumstance, but it seems like unjustified murder to me.  The boy would end up dead for no reason other than that the irrational father couldn't cope with his daughter becoming a normal adult woman.

Ok, I'm game.  Who really said the "slide lock" bit? 

The fact is, the father in this story happened upon an ininvited guest, hovering over his daughter buck-assed naked.  He had no idea that his little princess was engaged in subterfuge, and the law understood that fact by acquitting him. Honestly, it could've been his wife, it could've been his son, there was a stranger in his home and he wasn't the Tooth Fairy putting quarters under pillows.  We just had an incident in Madison where somebody was found naked and uninvited in somebody's home.  The dude went belligerent, then totally bonkers on the family member who found him there, but luckily the incident resulted in no injuries. Like it or not, Castle Doctrine protects the homeowner when situations like the original scenario happen, whether he's defending himself and his family from weirdos who get their jollies by sexually molesting folks, or whether they intend to finish the job with the typical murder. The law recognizes that, and allows a "reasonable man" defense.  There's any number of sexual predators who've entered homes with bad intentions, one can simply Google it. That's exactly what happened here, it was reasonable to conclude that the homeowner didn't know anything about the princess, her consort, and their goings-on, and to prevent what he would have thought was an impending rape, he rung the little bastard's bell a good one. 

Now, who said here "slide lock?" Really, I'll wait.

As folks who've been around know, I'm one of the first on this forum to eschew deadly force when not warranted. I have a very vivid memory of a severely mentally handicapped neighbor kid who broke into my Florida home very late one evening, scared, tired, and on the verge of one of his frequent grand mal seizures.  I recognized him and got him calmed down, then contacted his parents.  It took me all of a split second to identify the intruder and bring the 870 MkI down to low ready. He was an intruder, but not a target.

 I would, however, draw down on an uninvited person in my home if they were hovering naked over my wife, daughter, or son.  They had better come up with a quick explanation, be it an ongoing affair, he likes the kid's purty mouth, or whatever.  Then he would be escorted to the front porch, sans clothing, to await the police.  My wife wants to have an affair, she can do it somewhere else, and then she can scream "rape", like the UPS driver scenario last year. 

In the meantime, this particular scenario played out exactly as it should have, voyeuristic protests notwithstanding.  There was an unknown naked person in the home hovering over princess, the father had no clue who he was, and he prevented what was reasonable to assume was a rape or worse in progress.  The law acquitted him, as it should have.  Princess will now think twice before inviting Mr. Happy over to spend the night in Daddy's house, or Daddy will tell the little tart that she's out the door come 18 years of age. The End.

I now return you to the previous straw man arguments and general weeping and gnashing of teeth.     
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Balog

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No one said the exact phrase "Go for slide lock" so HTG is guilty of a bit of hyperbole. But I think it's clear he was doing that as a deliberate ironic measure, referring to these type of statements.

Fjolnirsson
So sorry, but I would've shot him right there.
If I find someone in my house whom I don't know, he's naked, and he's in my daughter's room with her, he will leave with holes in his body, end of story.

lacoochee
Personally, I would have shot,

seeker_two
he'd better be wearing a Kevlar condom...



G98, I understand what you're saying, but we're not talking about the OP anymore. Thread drift; it's a way of life here at APS. Other than SS several pages ago no one is saying the Dad in the OP did wrong.

What some of us are objecting to is the several posters who have taken the "Any naked guy in my house gets shot" position. We're responding to their statements, not the OP.

Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Perd Hapley

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That's right, folks.  If we see nekkid, we're a-shootin' at it.  There's a reason all them tasty animals run around buck-nekkid in the woods.  Their shameful nudity is just God's way of saying we otta shoot 'em.  That's why tame animals got themsevves a collar, or a bell, or one them little ear-tags.  'Cause otherwise - that's right - there gonna be a-shootin'. 

But seriously, one must learn to use context to evaluate meaning.  And the context of this thread is a naked, unknown intruder standing on the bed of an underage girl.  If anybody sounded just slightly too Rambo with the I'd-shoot-him commentary, just chalk that up to the usual internet commando syndrome, not some weird blood-lust toward those who would deflower our daughters, nor unhealthy attitudes toward sex. 
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seeker_two

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I make no apologies for my statements. A father's greatest responsibility is to protect his children, esp. when high-risk behaviors are involved. If that means redefining the risks to fall upon the naked guy (or girl)  in the room, so be it....

...and, if the act is "consentual", then there will be consequences for my child too...but I'm obliged to protect my child from harm....I have no obligation for the other person...
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MicroBalrog

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I think HTG pretty well summed up my own opinion. Him and the larger flame demon.
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Firethorn

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The "he's in my house and he's naked so I'm gonna waste him" attitude is wrong.  It may be legal to use lethal force in such a circumstance, but it seems like unjustified murder to me.  The boy would end up dead for no reason other than that the irrational father couldn't cope with his daughter becoming a normal adult woman.

The way I look at it, both the daughter and boyfriend were partially to blame.

1.  The Boyfriend knew he wasn't supposed to be there, and that the father didn't know he was there
2.  The Daughter knew he wasn't supposed to be there, and that the father didn't know he was there
3.  The Daughter never introduced her boyfriend to her father.

The odds that it's sexual assault goes way up if the parents don't recognize the guy.  People have snuck into houses for the purpose of rape before.  The very recognition of the boyfriend would have probably resulted in a long enough delay to prevent getting a pipe to the head.

Gewehr98

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Exactly.  Papa has no liability whatsoever in the event that this thread drifted from.

Princess?  Yup, were there a court case, you can guarantee she'd be one of the defendants.

As it stands, it was a legitimate thwacking upside the head, bottom line.  He's lucky he lived to talk about it.

Now, as for dangerous thread drift, I'm putting this one to bed before hyperbole and a bazillion other "what-ifs" take over. 
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