AMSEC safe - electronic lock won't open

[Brad Johnson]

Friend of mine (yes, I have friends  ) has an AMSEC gun safe and the electronic keypad lock will not open the safe.  Series and model of the safe are unknown.  He says he can hear the mechanism working, or at least trying to work, but it never releases the door.  I asked if he could manually manipulate the lock and he said it didn't have that provision.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Brad

[Fly320s]

Do you mean other than Detcord? 

Maybe ask CB900F on THR about it.  He's a locksmith and gives out advice on gun safes.

[Brad Johnson]

After poking around a bit it looks like the first thing he'll have to do is identify which locking system he has.  AMSEC uses a half-dozen different mfgs and no two are alike.

Brad

[RevDisk]

After poking around a bit it looks like the first thing he'll have to do is identify which locking system he has.  AMSEC uses a half-dozen different mfgs and no two are alike.

Brad

Call a locksmith that specializes in safes.   

Uh, he did try changing the battery first, right?

[Brad Johnson]

Fresh batteries.  Twice.  Found out the mechanism is an AMSEC ESL10.

Brad

[BryanP]

Every time I have to go through the process of opening my old-fashioned dial safe I think how nice it would be to just key in the numbers on an electronic lock.

Then I read a story like this and I'm glad I bought a dial safe.

[220_SWIFT]

I would suggest the first thing he does is reread the instruction manual to make sure he isn't doing anything wrong when entering the combo. 

Owners manual here.http://www.amsecusa.com/service/PDF/ESL10.pdf


Next, if he is doing everything correctly, I would suggest contacting Amsec customer service.

[Jamisjockey]

Interesting that this thread came up.  I'm going to start hunting for a deal on a safe this month.  Going to start by making the rounds at the local shops and see if anyone has one on sale.  Need a real deal safe finally.

[Brad Johnson]

Beginning to suspect something is jambed in the door (thick letter, gun rug, etc) which is holding it against the locking lugs.  That could easily keep the lugs from being fully engaged.  That would result in the unlock mechanism not working.  I found multiple instances of that on the web.  He's going to try the remedy tonight (pushing hard on the door and moving the handle to see if he can fully engage the locking lugs and free up the mechanism).

Brad

[RevDisk]

Beginning to suspect something is jambed in the door (thick letter, gun rug, etc) which is holding it against the locking lugs.  That could easily keep the lugs from being fully engaged.  That would result in the unlock mechanism not working.  I found multiple instances of that on the web.  He's going to try the remedy tonight (pushing hard on the door and moving the handle to see if he can fully engage the locking lugs and free up the mechanism).

Brad

Also, if that doesn't work, bang on the safe door near the lugs, one at a time, with a hefty rubber mallet while trying to move the handle.  Don't put insane torsion on the handle. 

[220_SWIFT]

Yes, any pressure on the door will jam up the locking mechanism.  That happened once with my safe.  I just had to push in on the door and then turn the handle.

[thebaldguy]

Try making sure the handle is all the way to the right (closed) against the stop. Then enter the combo and open. Try this and pushing in on the door at the same time also.

Contact a locksmith or the Amsec folks for help if this fails.

[sanglant]

Beginning to suspect something is jambed in the door (thick letter, gun rug, etc) which is holding it against the locking lugs.  That could easily keep the lugs from being fully engaged.  That would result in the unlock mechanism not working.  I found multiple instances of that on the web.  He's going to try the remedy tonight (pushing hard on the door and moving the handle to see if he can fully engage the locking lugs and free up the mechanism).

Brad

if pushing doesn't work try grabbing a CLEAN plunger and try it while pulling. might be stuck that way. this is a big part of why i don't own a lockbox, much less a safe.

[stenstro]

I have an Amsec ES913 safe. It has a 12 digit key pad (0-9 and A and B). It uses batteries inside the safe. I 've used it
pretty much without problems for 12 years. When the batteries have gotten weak I open it with the key and replace them.

Recently I punch in the combination and it would not open. I tried the key, both keys, and they will not open the safe
either. When I punch in the code I get a beep and a amber light blink after each number. Then press A to open it and both
red and green LEDs come on. If I punch in an incorrect code, only the red light comes on.

I don't think the door is jammed. I can pull on it and it moves back and forth with a little clicking. I've read the manual. I don't
see any setting to make it ignore the key.

Is there anyone out there with suggestions other than calling a locksmith? If worst comes to worse I'll have to cut it out of my desk drawer
and take it home for dissection.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

mks
 

[HankB]

Every time I have to go through the process of opening my old-fashioned dial safe I think how nice it would be to just key in the numbers on an electronic lock.

Then I read a story like this and I'm glad I bought a dial safe.

What he said.

[K Frame]

When I got my Fort Knox a few years ago I had the option of getting an electronic lock on it, installed by the dealer.

I passed because of possible issues like this. I'm leery of them even with a key bypass. Without a key bypass? No way no how.

I've had an Amsec with a dial combination lock since the mid 1980s, and it's been perfect.

[Brad Johnson]

I don't think the door is jammed. I can pull on it and it moves back and forth with a little clicking. I've read the manual. I don't see any setting to make it ignore the key.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

mks
 

The key should be a direct mechanical connection that overrides the electronics. When you say you've tried the keys do you mean they turn and the door stiil won't open, or neither key will turn at all?

Brad

[roo_ster]

Every time I have to go through the process of opening my old-fashioned dial safe I think how nice it would be to just key in the numbers on an electronic lock.

Then I read a story like this and I'm glad I bought a dial safe.

S&G mechanical FTW.

[Scout26]

Other then checking to see if that CB900F guy is still on THR and/or GRM and picking his brain (I saw what I did there), the only other options seem to be call Amsec's customer service and failing that a locksmith.


It's threads like these that re-enforce my belief in getting dial safes... (No key to lose/be accidentally found by unauthorized person(s) and no battery that dies at inopportune times.)

[AJ Dual]

The man you want is RFB45Colt on Arfcom. Might also be on THR too.

[stenstro]

Hello All. I left the recent post about my ES813 safe that will not open. To answer one question, the
key doesn't turn, neither key will turn. It goes in easily but will not turn. I've tried wiggling and jiggling.

I called the manufacturer who asked a few questions, like could I move the door back and forth a little and I
can. There is nothing inside putting pressure on the door. They told me it was likely that the solenoid
was stuck half way, blocking the key and not opening using the combination. They told me there were
not setting to prevent the key from being used.

I brought the safe home and tried the key and combination with the safe turned in different positions,
door down, door up, door on the side etc. No help. I also used  a rubber mallet and wacked the sides
to see if I could jar the solenoid loose  - no good.

The manufacturer told me if those things don't work, that I should take it to a lock smith to have it drilled out.
I asked if this would destroy the safe - yes was the answer. So if a locksmith can destroy the safe,
so can it.

I guess there are lessons learned here. One is to buy no safe that uses batteries unless they can be replace
with the door locked. The next safe I buy I'll make some notes about how it looks on the inside, to make
it easier to cut open in the future!

thanks for your replies


mks

[Brad Johnson]

Strange suggestion but worth a try...  tilt the safe on its sides, trying the keys in each tilted position. It's possible the odd movement will shift the mechanism enough to let you use the key.

Also, you say the key's won't turn at all. Even if the solenoid is jammed there ahould be some minute amount of movement from the key tumble. Are you ABSOLUTELY certain you have the correct keys?

Brad

[stenstro]

Thanks for your replies!  I have an interesting and happy ending to this saga.  I brought the safe home to my little
work shop. I  ground off the screw heads that were holding it to the desk drawer so that I could  move the safe
easily.  I figured if a locksmith has to  open the safe and destroy it in the process (that's what the manufacturer
told me!) then I could do that myself and save the money.

As I inspected the safe closely, I could see the hinge pins on the door side opposite of the lock. I figured they were
hardened but  I was curious. There was just enough space to slip  a hacksaw blade between the frame and door. I applied
pressure to the blade, pressing it against the hinge pin and it bit, meaning that it wasn't hardened. So I got out my saber
saw and 5 min later I had cut both hinge pins and I was able to open the door.

The hinge pins were 5/16 low carbon steel, just like an ordinary bolt. So I put new batteries in the electronic lock and
entered my combination and the solenoid worked, so I was entering the right combination - not crazy! Then I looked
at the key lock. It was a $5 cam lock and it was stuck. I guess some of the little pins in the tumbler were bent. I was
using the correct key. So I replaced the lock with a new $5 cam lock and installed two terminals connected to the ends of
the batteries (4 AA), so I could always hook up a new battery from outside the safe. Next I made new hinge pins
from 5/16 bolts and put everything back together.

So breaking into this safe took about 5 minutes, after I figured out what to do.  Not a very safe safe. It's ok for me
because I don't keep money, guns or jewelry in the safe, just the CDs of the software I have purchased. This forces me
to be careful and not misplace the discs.

If you have one of these safes, I suggest you add terminals to allow a spare battery to be connected from the outside.
The body and door of the safe are easy to drill. You can also remove the hinge pins and replace them with hardened
pins if security is important.

So, a new profession: professor, engineer, armature photographer, father and now safe cracker.

happy holidays and good luck.

mks

[RevDisk]

I haven't cracked many safes, but from what I know of locks, few are as secure as folks think. Price isn't always correlated to quality either.

[wmenorr67]

Locks only keep the honest folks out.