Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on August 16, 2012, 05:57:03 PM
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So explain this to me: what does Ecuador possibly stand to gain by giving Assange asylum?
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sucking up to argentina
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So explain this to me: what does Ecuador possibly stand to gain by giving Assange asylum?
I would very much like to know that too.
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Something interesting I just heard on the radio is that Great Britain is prepared to invade the embassy to arrest Assange.
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Something interesting I just heard on the radio is that Great Britain is prepared to invade the embassy to arrest Assange.
Oh this ought go be good...
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Shades of "The Final Option". [ar15]
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I'm not sure if they meant the British military or the London police, but either way could get very interesting if the embassy is fortified and reasonably well armed.
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Something interesting I just heard on the radio is that Great Britain is prepared to invade the embassy to arrest Assange.
If it is the embassy, that is an act of war.
Assange is loving every moment.
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Something interesting I just heard on the radio is that Great Britain is prepared to invade the embassy to arrest Assange.
[popcorn]
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I recall that a few years back, the UK passed a law allowing it to revoke the diplomatic status of an embassy or consular post if it was being used for purposes contrary to diplomatic functions. This was done in response after concerns that some countries (I am looking at you, Iran and North Korea!) were using their embassies for criminal activities. There have been accusations that NK uses embassies as a front for drug smuggling and currency counterfeiting in order to secure foreign exchange for NK.
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IIRC. teh Brits raided the Iranian embassy a few years back.
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IIRC. teh Brits raided the Iranian embassy a few years back.
pretty well iirc
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So explain this to me: what does Ecuador possibly stand to gain by giving Assange asylum?
Leverage in their disputes with the United States
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Leverage in their disputes with the United States
Do the Ecuadorians have a bone to pick with the US or vice versa? For the life of me, I cannot recall anything very exciting with Ecuador prior to WikiLeaks, other than the Chevron dispute.
Fun fact about Ecuador: According to Tony Bourdain, a whole lot of restaurants in NYC would shut down but for Ecuadorian line cooks. Apparently, they have carved out a real niche in the restaurant industry there.
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Do the Ecuadorians have a bone to pick with the US or vice versa? For the life of me, I cannot recall anything very exciting with Ecuador prior to WikiLeaks, other than the Chevron dispute.
Massive - since they've had an independent leader, who doesn't care about drug spraying and supports democracy in south America. He booted a us military base, offered to let it stay if he could open a base in Miami...long list of troubles.
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Do the Ecuadorians have a bone to pick with the US or vice versa? For the life of me, I cannot recall anything very exciting with Ecuador prior to WikiLeaks, other than the Chevron dispute.
ASSange could face the death penalty if extradited to the US, and if they turn him over to Sweden (or is in Switzerland?) they would then turn him over to us. I'm pretty sure that's why Ecuador granted him asylum. If he was accused of murder they probably wouldn't protect him, but who knows.
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assange would never get the needle. if we had the hair john walker woulda got it
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assange would never get the needle. if we had the hair john walker woulda got it
This. We stopped executing spies and traitors long ago.
So we're beefing with Ecuador. Big whoop.
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This. We stopped executing spies and traitors long ago.
So we're beefing with Ecuador. Big whoop.
i'd cheerfully hotshot walker myself. let his kin watch then ask who's next. hes special. though aldrich ames is on the list too
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I would do Ames first. It is documented that people died as a result of his actions. The Soviets executed several people working for the Americans after Ames burned them. If I recall correctly, no one directly died as a result of Walker.
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The US relationship with Ecuador has been touchy for quite some time . . . IIRC, a couple of decades ago we gave Ecuador some old gunboats, which they promptly used to seize some American fishing vessels.
We generally get along when we have to, but we're not exactly the best of friends.
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So explain this to me: what does Ecuador possibly stand to gain by giving Assange asylum?
I heard on Fox News that the new president of Ecuador praised George Bush for his policies which allowed him to be elected, the leftish socialist that he is. Quite simply, the new Ecuador president hates the USA. Just wants to be thorn in our side just like Argentina.
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assange would never get the needle. if we had the hair john walker woulda got it
What would John walker get it for again?
And what about Assange? What crime did he commit?
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What would John walker get it for again?
John Walker was a traitor and a Soviet spy. We used to execute such filth.
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And what about Assange? What crime did he commit?
He dissed Hillary.
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John Walker was a traitor and a Soviet spy. We used to execute such filth.
??!? Soviet spy? How was he spying from the mountains of Afghanistan, a place so remote he didn't even know 9/11 had happened?
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Last time I heard anything about Ecuador was those missionaries getting killed back in the 1950s :P
They do have quite a bit of oil IIRC.
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??!? Soviet spy? How was he spying from the mountains of Afghanistan, a place so remote he didn't even know 9/11 had happened?
No, no. You are thinking of John Walker Lindh, aka 'the American Taliban'. We are speaking of the John Walker who was a Navy communications officer who spied for the Soviets from the 60's to the 80's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker_(spy)
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If it is the embassy, that is an act of war.
Assange is loving every moment.
If GB does this, I see a lot of embassies packing up & leaving.....and maybe a few English ambassadors getting change-of-address cards in their futures....
Let's see how the UN handles this one....
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If I recall correctly, no one directly died as a result of Walker.
I would personally disagree with that statement.
He was feeding the Soviets documents, and more damaging, key lists for encoding machines, during the Viet Nam war. Using information supplied by Walker the Soviets were able to feed info to North Viet Nam, including air strikes, etc. While it has never been proven his info caused the death of US servicemen, I will always believe it did.
bob
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Massive - since they've had an independent leader, who doesn't care about drug spraying and supports democracy in south America. He booted a us military base, offered to let it stay if he could open a base in Miami...long list of troubles.
Oh, so just another latin american idiot.
Just more proof that ignorant savages would rather be ruled brutally and poorly by their own kind than lightly and well governed by folk who look or sound different.
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If GB does this, I see a lot of embassies packing up & leaving.....and maybe a few English ambassadors getting change-of-address cards in their futures....
Let's see how the UN handles this one....
The Brits better close their embassy in Ecuador before they violate Ecuador's embassy in London - if I were a banana republic leader, you better believe I'd be invading the embassy of any country that violated mine within hours of the foreign incursion. (And my embassy guards would have orders to shoot anyone forcing their way in.)
And considering where Ecuador is, and how far British force projection capabilities have fallen since the Falklands festivities, there really isn't much the Brits could do in response.
Do the Brits really think extraditing Assange to Sweden is worth queering their relations with practically all of South and Central America . . . and a whole lot of other countries who will regard British observation of diplomatic niceties with distrust?
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Just more proof that ignorant savages would rather be ruled brutally and poorly by their own kind than lightly and well governed by folk who look or sound different.
That comment makes a hell of a lot of assumptions.
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That comment makes a hell of a lot of assumptions.
Maybe he just looked at places like Venezuela, Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc.
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Do the Brits really think extraditing Assange to Sweden is worth queering their relations with practically all of South and Central America . . . and a whole lot of other countries who will regard British observation of diplomatic niceties with distrust?
You may not have noticed this, but at the moment our relations with South and Central America are not exactly cordial.
In any case, this OMG THE REDCOATS ARE GOING TO INVADE A SMALL BUILDING BEHIND HARRODS!!!!!!!!!11111one argument comes solely from the Ecuadorians trying desperately to pretend that what they are doing is the principled thing here, rather than actually trying to resolve the situation by pointing out to Assange that he would have been better off actually going to Ecuador before trying to claim asylum.
But then, of course, this whole affair has been pretty stupid from the start - the allegations against Assange in Sweden are unlikely to result in him being found guilty (though his antics since they came out dont exactly point to his innocence), and the argument that he is more likely to be extradited to your waffle-fond nation from Sweden than he is from our shores is laughable to anyone even remotely familiar with our extradition treaty with the US. You then have the madness of someone claiming they are fleeing because of journalistic persecution running off to somewhere where journalistic freedom isnt exactly respected.
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That comment makes a hell of a lot of assumptions.
The primary assumption being that I have read a few history books.
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In any case, this OMG THE REDCOATS ARE GOING TO INVADE A SMALL BUILDING BEHIND HARRODS!!!!!!!!!11111one argument comes solely from the Ecuadorians trying desperately to pretend that what they are doing is the principled thing here, rather than actually trying to resolve the situation by pointing out to Assange that he would have been better off actually going to Ecuador before trying to claim asylum.
Why would the redcoats even consider violating Ecuador's embassy over Assange when they wouldn't do the same to Libya's embassy over Yvonne Fletcher?
There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know . . .
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One other thing to consider.....Argentina has started making waves about reacquiring the Maldives/Faulklands again. If this plays out badly, Argentina may make their move....with Ecuador (& maybe even Venezuela) as allies. And GB doesn't have the military punch they once did, esp. being tied up in our WOT.
This could get bad quick....
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Why would the redcoats even consider violating Ecuador's embassy over Assange when they wouldn't do the same to Libya's embassy over Yvonne Fletcher?
There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know . . .
The person who shot WPC Fletcher had (apparently) full diplomatic immunity, Assange doesnt. In any case there was a siege of that embassy for more than a week, the whole lot were kicked out after they refused to revoke the killer's immunity, and the law was changed (the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987) to allow the Government to use force should something like that ever happen again.
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The primary assumption being that I have read a few history books.
Well then you would know that US influence in Central and South America during the 20th century has often led to the debasement of civil society and the democratic process, people remaining ignorant savages under the poor rule of a brutal local American-sponsored dictator/oligarchy. Hey, that kind of reminds me of the Middle East!
My point being that there is a lot more complexity to the cynical distrust of US foreign meddling than random "savagery and ignorance".
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The person who shot WPC Fletcher had (apparently) full diplomatic immunity, Assange doesnt. In any case there was a siege of that embassy for more than a week, the whole lot were kicked out after they refused to revoke the killer's immunity, and the law was changed (the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987) to allow the Government to use force should something like that ever happen again.
They can pass a law if that makes them feel better, but it is still illegal under the 1961 Vienna Convention treaty.
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Well then you would know that US influence in Central and South America during the 20th century has often led to the debasement of civil society and the democratic process, people remaining ignorant savages under the poor rule of a brutal local American-sponsored dictator/oligarchy. Hey, that kind of reminds me of the Middle East!
My point being that there is a lot more complexity to the cynical distrust of US foreign meddling than random "savagery and ignorance".
We hardly "debased" their society. We did throw in with a lot political cacafuegos who would have thrown in with the Soviets had it not been for us.
I suppose you think they'd have been better off had they done that? :O
The fact they felt they had to "throw in" with anyone reflects their weaknesses more than any accusations of any "debasement" to their society.
Circa 1970 I had the opportunity to visit Venezuela. I did not find anybody there to be "debased" or "savage" or even ignorant. We became good friends with a gentlman there who drove a cab for a living ...before we left he invited us to his house to meet his family. It would be nice to think a cabdriver in America could make enough $ to buy a house like that, plus he had enough books in his study to make a nice library, had he so desired.
Ignorant? No way.
He remained a good family friend for many years until his very untimely death from natural causes.
I have to wonder what life in Venezuela is like now, under Hugo Chavez ..... ??? Not so good, I would think.
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The Brits better close their embassy in Ecuador before they violate Ecuador's embassy in London - if I were a banana republic leader, you better believe I'd be invading the embassy of any country that violated mine within hours of the foreign incursion. (And my embassy guards would have orders to shoot anyone forcing their way in.)
And considering where Ecuador is, and how far British force projection capabilities have fallen since the Falklands festivities, there really isn't much the Brits could do in response.
Do the Brits really think extraditing Assange to Sweden is worth queering their relations with practically all of South and Central America . . . and a whole lot of other countries who will regard British observation of diplomatic niceties with distrust?
Two concepts of justice. The Anglosphere is coming from a whole different place. At some point a line must be drawn, no?
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Well then you would know that US influence in Central and South America during the 20th century has often led to the debasement of civil society and the democratic process, people remaining ignorant savages under the poor rule of a brutal local American-sponsored dictator/oligarchy. Hey, that kind of reminds me of the Middle East!
My point being that there is a lot more complexity to the cynical distrust of US foreign meddling than random "savagery and ignorance".
They didn't need Uncle Sam to debase their society. They have been doing a fine job for hundreds of years with their own hands. It is their supreme accomplishment and we ought not take that away from them by denying their ability to act.
Do you really think throwing a little money at any particular country so that its thug leader preferred us to any one of other rivals had a significant effect on their societies? Given that most non-US aligned latin countries are also unlovely pits, US $$, involvement, and alignment might not be the causal agent. Perhaps the cause of their being pits is not who waved money under their dictators' noses, but their own culture?
FTR, earlier statement...
Just more proof that ignorant savages would rather be ruled brutally and poorly by their own kind than lightly and well governed by folk who look or sound different.
...is near universal and not confined to latin america.
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Well then you would know that US influence in Central and South America during the 20th century has often led to the debasement of civil society and the democratic process, people remaining ignorant savages under the poor rule of a brutal local American-sponsored dictator/oligarchy. Hey, that kind of reminds me of the Middle East!
My point being that there is a lot more complexity to the cynical distrust of US foreign meddling than random "savagery and ignorance".
If we really wanted to debase S. American society, we'd legalize/decriminalize drugs. The dominoes falling in their economies from where all the cartel money goes would be entertaining to say the least...
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If we really wanted to debase S. American society, we'd legalize/decriminalize drugs. The dominoes falling in their economies from where all the cartel money goes would be entertaining to say the least...
That is one of the most evil suggestions I've ever heard. >:D [popcorn] [popcorn] :angel:
;)
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One other thing to consider.....Argentina has started making waves about reacquiring the Maldives/Faulklands again. If this plays out badly, Argentina may make their move....with Ecuador (& maybe even Venezuela) as allies. And GB doesn't have the military punch they once did, esp. being tied up in our WOT.
This could get bad quick....
Yes, for Argentina, and anyone foolish enough to try and help them out of some sense of Pan-Southamericanisim, I guess one could call it.
After the first "war", (I resist the urge to call it a "spanking") the Falklands have been rather well garrisoned. And any lack of flattop force-projection the Royal Navy has suffered since then, will just be made up with 20+ years in missile and sub technology. The poor pilots of the mish-mash of aging A-4's and Mirages won't even see who/what is killing them this time, unlike the first time around they went up against the Harriers.
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I wouldn't be so sure....Argentina & Ecuador aren't as far behind militarily as you think. Add Venezuela's muscle & oil money (supported indirectly by China) and you have a Grade A C*F in the making.....
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We hardly "debased" their society. We did throw in with a lot political cacafuegos who would have thrown in with the Soviets had it not been for us.
I suppose you think they'd have been better off had they done that? :O
The fact they felt they had to "throw in" with anyone reflects their weaknesses more than any accusations of any "debasement" to their society.
Circa 1970 I had the opportunity to visit Venezuela. I did not find anybody there to be "debased" or "savage" or even ignorant. We became good friends with a gentlman there who drove a cab for a living ...before we left he invited us to his house to meet his family. It would be nice to think a cabdriver in America could make enough $ to buy a house like that, plus he had enough books in his study to make a nice library, had he so desired.
Ignorant? No way.
He remained a good family friend for many years until his very untimely death from natural causes.
I have to wonder what life in Venezuela is like now, under Hugo Chavez ..... ??? Not so good, I would think.
Ah benevolent despotism? Look how happy we keep our darky's? It amuses that amongst folk so concerned about their own liberty and infringements upon it so many are so free with the liberty of others. For me but not for thee.
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I wouldn't be so sure....Argentina & Ecuador aren't as far behind militarily as you think. Add Venezuela's muscle & oil money (supported indirectly by China) and you have a Grade A C*F in the making.....
Argentina's air force? =| The four Typhoons that are stationed on the Falklands will likely splash them BVR.
Their surface fleet of destroyers etc. is semi-respectable, I'll give you that, but the Brit subs will just sink them if the risk from Exocets is going to be significant. My money's on the RAF and RN.
They may stick out their pinkies at tea time, but the British military is still REALLY good at killin' people.
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Ah benevolent despotism? Look how happy we keep our earliest? It amuses that amongst folk so concerned about their own liberty and infringements upon it so many are so free with the liberty of others. For me but not for thee.
"Our earliest??" What the _____ are you ranting about? [tinfoil]
"It amuses that folk so concerned...." Lacks a pronoun. WHO is "amused?" [tinfoil]
Look, I didn't create the world. I didn't wake up one morning and decide to place an expansionist evil empire on this planet and turn Russia into a sludgepot of communists whose greatest call-to-glory was going to be to spread their vile oppressive philosophy across the planet. We did what we had to do to defeat it. War, even COLD WAR is an ugly thing. But I will defend to my death the concept that we were right to defeat communism, even if we did make a lot of deals with tinpot devils in some squalid corner of the planet. The Soviets would never have stopped there, they'd have continued on ad infinitum until all was consumed.
If you feel so bad there's some nasty tinpot dictators remaining, you are free to go take care of them.
Oh wait, I forget, now, we're not supposed to BE the "world's policeforce" we're supposed to keep our evil vile paws off all others because it isn't OUR business to impose "freedom" on a people ....it's OK if their leaders are killing the children, raping the women and turning the poltroonified peasants into a slave workforce.
Because if they wanted their freedom, THEY should rise up with their pitchforks and take out the AK-47 armed jackboots with their assault pitchforks.........
Oh well. [tinfoil] ;/
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Argentina's air force? =| The four Typhoons that are stationed on the Falklands will likely splash them BVR.
Their surface fleet of destroyers etc. is semi-respectable, I'll give you that, but the Brit subs will just sink them if the risk from Exocets is going to be significant. My money's on the RAF and RN.
They may stick out their pinkies at tea time, but the British military is still REALLY good at killin' people.
Any excuse to post this, the best Newsweek cover of the past millenium:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-u-du2VFE_Yc%2FTZgQH41iQCI%2FAAAAAAAAANg%2FWv3f-3-wZWU%2Fs1600%2F449px-The_empire_strikes_back_newsweek.jpg&hash=99ff2353cc4fe86c215617d8ef342c9e347cb08e)
:D
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Good picture.
But that reminds me . . . was it true that the carrier had to shut down its radars when conducting air operations because of the electrical priming of the Harrier's munitions?
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I happened to be in DC with a bunch of British exchange students shortly after the Falklands War was over. Every time we went out, they'd get pissed (in the British sense of the word) and start singing.....
"RULE BRITANNIA !!! BRITANNIA WAIVES THE RULES !!!!......."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Sigh, the British.
Someone needs to tell them, again, that they do not rule the world.
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Sigh, the British.
Someone needs to tell them, again, that they do not rule the world.
We do still rule Knightsbridge, though.
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We do still rule Knightsbridge, though.
Yes, you do!
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We do still rule Knightsbridge, though.
Yes....but you defend it with dull knives....
http://thedailyeater.com/2010/02/stab-free-safe-kitchen-knives.html
=D
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No, no. You are thinking of John Walker Lindh, aka 'the American Taliban'. We are speaking of the John Walker who was a Navy communications officer who spied for the Soviets from the 60's to the 80's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker_(spy)
makes more sense now!
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We do still rule Knightsbridge, though.
How long until the caliphate is established in Londonistan?
http://www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Melanie-Phillips/dp/1594031444
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How long until the caliphate is established in Londonistan?
http://www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Melanie-Phillips/dp/1594031444
Yes, a religion that forbids alcohol is going to absolutely flourish in a nation that has more pubs per square mile than anywhere else in the world.
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Yes, a religion that forbids alcohol is going to absolutely flourish in a nation that has more pubs per square mile than anywhere else in the world.
I would put Davenport, Iowa, up against any town in the British Isles in the pub-per-square-mile metric.
Of course, towns like Little Rock, Arkansas, bring down the national metric due to not having a decent pub in the whole dang city. Quite the accomplishment, that.
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makes more sense now!
We need to insist traitors take on mutually distinct names to prevent getting them confused.
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I would put Davenport, Iowa, up against any town in the British Isles in the pub-per-square-mile metric.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2F120806_th_silverblues3803807700.jpg&hash=103564bdacc117fc307cf2bf23255f81f633d987)
Just about anyplace you'd care to name in Wisconsin is not impressed with that.
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>Just about anyplace you'd care to name in Wisconsin is not impressed with that. <
Y'all know what it takes to make a town in Wisconsin?
A gas station, 2 churches, and 4 bars. Population is just a bonus
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We do still rule Knightsbridge, though.
I thought Arthur agreed to call it a draw ...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beautifulfunnysadandtrue.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fblack%2Bknight%2Bdefeated.jpg&hash=72260a5d7bb45faaef220ad5d3fec49f4f6e303c)
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Having come from a suburb of Milwaukee, I was amazed when I met my wife (in 1968) at the number of bars on the south side of Milwaukee. In her area, there was literally a bar at almost every single intersection of main streets or cross streets. There were four bars in a 500 foot radius of her house.
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Having come from a suburb of Milwaukee, I was amazed when I met my wife (in 1968) at the number of bars on the south side of Milwaukee. In her area, there was literally a bar at almost every single intersection of main streets or cross streets. There were four bars in a 500 foot radius of her house.
there are fifty bars in a square mile around Soho, though in only two of these will the beer be cheap enough to drink without the price of it sobering you up
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there are fifty bars in a square mile around Soho, though in only two of these will the beer be cheap enough to drink without the price of it sobering you up
What is the general description of "pub" over there?
In most the midwest towns we write of, they are properly known of as "taverns." They have alcoholic beverages, but also serve some sort of limited victuals like sandwiches, burgers, etc. and be open from maybe mid-morning until late night. Some will specialize in a particular chow, like ribs or BBQ. As such, bringing in accompanied young 'uns during reasonable hours (for kiddos) is not a big deal. The adult(s) and kid(s) eat a meal and the adult may or may not consume alcohol.
Many small towns will lack a fast food restaurant, but have a tavern where one can get prepared food in addition to alcohol. Most/many will consume alcohol while there, but it is not expected/required.
OTOH, in points south, many of the "bars" serve no or little food and bar minors from entry.
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>Just about anyplace you'd care to name in Wisconsin is not impressed with that. <
Y'all know what it takes to make a town in Wisconsin?
A gas station, 2 churches, and 4 bars. Population is just a bonus
In Montana, a "town" is a bar and a post office.
The post office is optional.
:lol:
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What is the general description of "pub" over there?
In most the midwest towns we write of, they are properly known of as "taverns." They have alcoholic beverages, but also serve some sort of limited victuals like sandwiches, burgers, etc. and be open from maybe mid-morning until late night. Some will specialize in a particular chow, like ribs or BBQ. As such, bringing in accompanied young 'uns during reasonable hours (for kiddos) is not a big deal. The adult(s) and kid(s) eat a meal and the adult may or may not consume alcohol.
Many small towns will lack a fast food restaurant, but have a tavern where one can get prepared food in addition to alcohol. Most/many will consume alcohol while there, but it is not expected/required.
OTOH, in points south, many of the "bars" serve no or little food and bar minors from entry.
Once upon a time (and not that long ago) pubs were all about the drinking, you couldnt get food in there unless it was served in a pre-sealed bag that was attached to a piece of card behind the bar with other snacks. Loads of them - especially in the countryside - are starting to become more like what you describe as a tavern, with varying menus and degrees of success.
That said, very few if any of the Soho bars will be like that, they will all be about drink and sins associated with that substance.
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I did a search on Google Maps for "taverns", and found 30 in a 1 square mile area of Milwaukee. That was in the north Water Street area, where all of the fashionable pubs are. If I search for "Milwaukee bars", I find more in that square mile area, so that part of Milwaukee is probably close to Soho. Of course, a lot of these places serve food as a secondary attraction.
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In Montana, a "town" is a bar and a post office.
The post office is optional.
:lol:
I've driven through parts of rural Iowa and Minnesota where some "towns" are not much more than a wide spot in the road, with competing bars across the street from one another.