My thoughts about politics

[longeyes]

No Rev, you're white so he'd probably be fine with you.

And I agree, the problem is a short sighted focus on now. People seem unable to think logically about the consequences of their actions and beliefs.

A cheap shot like that suits you, Balog.  Too bad it took you 1400 words to say what an astute man would say in a hundred. 

The trouble with you and some others on this forum is that they refuse to go the next step; you just keep bouncing off the wall of your own conceptual limitations.  You call our nation escapist and irresponsible, but you don't tell us what we might do about it.  My advice is to gather up the people who still believe in the Founders' principles and create another polity around them.  When I say "excise" I mean separate, though even RevDisk is smart enough to know that; he's just being a snarky little fellow.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things.  The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.

My vote is simple,  ABO.  Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.

My question still remains:  what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic. 

[TommyGunn]

....Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.........

That might actually be an improvement on the choices we have if it can express a coherent thought. 

[Fitz]

What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things.  The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.

My vote is simple,  ABO.  Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.

My question still remains:  what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic. 

It's not JUST ron paul. It's Ron paul in conjunction with the CONTINUED struggle to get constitution-respecting folks in congress.

Which HAS been happening.

Pieces in the puzzle. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[longeyes]

The difference is that when we created this country and built it on a Constitution we had a very different culture than the one we have now and quite a different demographic.  Balog himself noted where we've arrived as a people.

[Balog]

You're being intellectually dishonest longeyes. Also making cheap personal attacks, but that's beside the point.

You constantly preach about the upcoming civil war. You just as consistently talk about the endemic threat of illegal immigration, as a primary issue. In general, you cloak yourself in swirling generalities and refuse to be pinned down on exactly what you think except in the most vague way.

[Jamisjockey]

What could Paul actually do, if elected, to change things.  The president isn't the alpha / omega. He must work through and with Congress. Congress is where the power is and is where the most corruption is.

My vote is simple,  ABO.  Don't care if the Republican Nominee is a 3 peckered goat from Uranus.

My question still remains:  what could Ron Paul do to change the direction of this country. Be realistic. 

Its called a veto pen.  And then, there is all those pesky executive orders that need to be rescinded.
And as the elected leader of the GOP, they'd have more incentive to play ball with him.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Its called a veto pen.  And then, there is all those pesky executive orders that need to be rescinded.
And as the elected leader of the GOP, they'd have more incentive to play ball with him.

Yes he can veto and rescind EO,s. But I doubt the Republicans would have any incentive to work with him. Republicans are as corrupt as Democrats, only difference is the speed that the hand basket to hell is traveling at.

The solution IMO, is get rid of the career politicians. Once you hold elected office, once your term is up, you leave and are never able to run for any elected office for the rest of your life nor be eligible to serve in any appointed position within a government. This applies to elected offices of Local, State, and Federal

[Perd Hapley]

The solution IMO, is get rid of the career politicians. Once you hold elected office, once your term is up, you leave and are never able to run for any elected office for the rest of your life nor be eligible to serve in any appointed position within a government. This applies to elected offices of Local, State, and Federal

Uh, yeah, cause that's something that stands a good chance of being implemented.

Oh, wait; no. President Paul will sign his entire agenda into law before that happens.


Personally, I'd prefer to allow people to re-elect politicians they feel are doing a good job. I'd just like to see any pensions or health care  eliminated, so there's less incentive for politicians to make a career out of it. I don't see Congress supporting that idea, either, of course.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Paul's agenda stands the same chance of happening as getting rid of career politicians. IOW, not going to happen.

[longeyes]

You're being intellectually dishonest longeyes. Also making cheap personal attacks, but that's beside the point.

You constantly preach about the upcoming civil war. You just as consistently talk about the endemic threat of illegal immigration, as a primary issue. In general, you cloak yourself in swirling generalities and refuse to be pinned down on exactly what you think except in the most vague way.

Okay, pal, I'll stoop to conquer.  You implied I was a racist.  That was a personal attack, initiated by you.  I merely responded to it and called you out on it.

I don't cloak myself in swirling generalities.  You want me to lay out the exact scenario of civil war and/or secession for you?  My point, as before, is that there is no viable way to unite a nation that is, even by your conclusions (with which I largely agree), given the current culture and demographics.  Unity at this juncture would mean a de facto surrender to the current trend, which conduces to socialism (or worse).  To me all that leads us inescapably to some initiative that includes secession, quasi-autonomous regions, and/or much greater states' rights.  If there's another way to preserve political liberty, please tell me, in specifics, what that would entail.  Yes, I consider unchecked illegal immigration to be a profound existential threat to our values and culture.  Nothing vague about that either.  What else do you want me to say?

The irony here is that you and I actually agree on most things, though it seems to pain you to acknowledge this.  I can't speak to why.  Go in peace.

[MicroBalrog]

Personally, I'd prefer to allow people to re-elect politicians they feel are doing a good job.

I... agree with fistful.

[RevDisk]

And I agree, the problem is a short sighted focus on now. People seem unable to think logically about the consequences of their actions and beliefs.

Basically.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not an idiot to believe you can boil something so complex down to a thousand variables, let alone one.

I just have noticed a common trend of looking at short term solutions or practices often at great long term harm.  Pretty much everywhere. Some of it is just "I want what I can get NOW and I don't care what happens after I am gone." Some of it is instant gratification. But mostly it is just a mindframe. People don't seem inclined to incorporate long term strategy into short term action. Yes, do whatever is required in the short term, but keep in mind how the short term eventually becomes the long term.

Yes, folks don't think about consequences. But this is more about planning and strategy as much as it is ignoring consequences.


Folks that gripe about "kids today are all about instant gratification" are ignoring the fact that everyone of all ages do the same thing. Just in different ways. AARP is one of the driving forces of government deficit spending, because their membership is geared towards the mentality of "I'll likely be dead in 20 years, so what do I care?" It isn't to knock old people specifically, just pointing out that this seems to be an age independent issue.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I... agree with fistful.

I know... It's a weird feeling when it happens, but it does happen every so often.

[longeyes]

Of course kids are all about instant gratification and always have been, but in the past reality intruded quite a bit more than today, fantasy had not replaced reality so entirely, and kids weren't 45 years old.  To deny what has happened to our culture in the last half-century is naive and self-deluding.

[freakazoid]

I will respectfully agree to disagree with Balog about most everything he wrote except for my view that RP is the best candidate.

  You don't think it's culture?

OK. I take it you like Ron Paul. Lets say he was elected president. Just what could he do?  What change could get start?

I think the big thing is if he got elected it would be more of a sign of things possibly going for the better. It's not like he could just snap his fingers and we would be in Libertarian Land. It's also not like he wouldn't be able to do anything. I believe there would be great strides made towards a smaller government if he was elected president.

My advice is to gather up the people who still believe in the Founders' principles and create another polity around them.

You mean like The Free State Project? Frankly I think it is a good idea, but believe that like what others believe in that they should of chose some place like Montana

[longeyes]

The Free State Project is one of many things we should try.  You have to build a quorum of like-minded people. 

[Balog]

Actually, never mind. I really need to stop arguing with people on the internet...

[freakazoid]

Where's the fun in that? Quitter. 

[RevDisk]

Of course kids are all about instant gratification and always have been, but in the past reality intruded quite a bit more than today, fantasy had not replaced reality so entirely, and kids weren't 45 years old.  To deny what has happened to our culture in the last half-century is naive and self-deluding.

People are all about instant (or near-instant) gratification and always have been. Reality intrudes now just about as much as ever.

Actually, never mind. I really need to stop arguing with people on the internet...

Basically, yea.  People rarely change their opinion based on information, let alone opinion. It's one thing to have an interesting philosophical discussion, it's another to roll in the mud. Sadly, there is a lot more mud rolling than interesting philosophical discussions.  Sadder part, APS is actually better than most of the rest of internet.

Folks always need to keep in mind the whole "polite" thing. I forget my own self time to time.

[longeyes]

No, sir, things are not exactly the same as they were.  You might try reading, for example, Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman.  Might enlighten you on a few matters.  Our electorate is pretty woeful, in terms of literacy, compared to the mid-19th century.  I know in a time of high-speed broadband we don't want to believe this, but it's true.  Most middle-class 25-year-olds today have grown up in a perfumed bubble; they are part of the Orthodontic Generation, the ones who mug incessantly for the camera on Facebook, infinitely satisfied with themselves.  Call me a cynic, but don't tell me I'm deaf, dumb, and blind; what I say is based on contact, not fantasy.  The whole culture conduces to creating young people like this, it's not even their fault, they're just doing what they've been raised to do: Have fun and buy stuff.  The irony here is that Balog, who doesn't much care for Longeyes, is echoing what Longeyes has been saying for years now on this very forum.  So be it.

I don't want to prolong the awkwardness, but you, RevDisk, went off on a little macho snit with me.  I suppose on gun forums this is always lurking in the background.  :)

To him I said go in peace, to you I say the same.  Let's keep it smart, peaceful, and interesting.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Longeyes...

I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually know.

In some ways, they are ignorent in the realities of life they'e never dealt with, but most do recognize that they've had it good and life in the good 'ol USA is not going to be the same.
They are not stupid. They can see the need for a diffrent way of doing things, they just don't know what it is thanks too their mentors up until now.
Give them a few more years to figure out the lies they were trained to beleive, and the idiocy of OWS, and you may end up suprised.

[red headed stranger]

Well, since our electorate is largely NOT middle class 25-year-olds, I guess we don't need to be blaming them for the state of our nation. 

We are right smack in the middle of a huge mess caused by the older generations that needs addressing right now instead of whining about the upcoming doom of our society due to young slackers.  These kids aren't going to be allowed near the wheels of power for another 20+ years anyway. 

[Fitz]

Well, since our electorate is largely NOT middle class 25-year-olds, I guess we don't need to be blaming them for the state of our nation. 

We are right smack in the middle of a huge mess caused by the older generations that needs addressing right now instead of whining about the upcoming doom of our society due to young slackers.  These kids aren't going to be allowed near the wheels of power for another 20+ years anyway. 

This is the funniest part of the whole situation to me. I hear things like "All these young folk, blah blah blah, ruining everything, blah blah blah."

Problems come from long before my generation was old enough to walk, let alone vote

[longeyes]

Longeyes...

I do kind of wonder how many of those middle class kids you actually know.

In some ways, they are ignorent in the realities of life they'e never dealt with, but most do recognize that they've had it good and life in the good 'ol USA is not going to be the same.
They are not stupid. They can see the need for a diffrent way of doing things, they just don't know what it is thanks too their mentors up until now.
Give them a few more years to figure out the lies they were trained to beleive, and the idiocy of OWS, and you may end up suprised.

I know enough to feel confident in my view.  I didn't say they were a lost cause.  But we'll see how they vote come November.  I never said they were stupid, just comfortably self-involved...because, so far, they can be.  Many of them have parents who have made this detachment from reality possible, even easy.  If there's hope it will have to come from them, but they will have to spend a lot of time unlearning what they've learned.