Seattle: poster child for the $ 15 minimum wage

[MillCreek]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/much-really-cost-live-city-like-seattle/

The $ 15/hour minimum wage is getting a lot of play in the Seattle area in recent months.  I am still unsure as to if either the City Council will pass such a law or if it will be done by initiative.  If it does pass, Seattle will be a lab for the real-world effects of raising the minimum to this figure.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Heard something interesting on the drive into work about that today.   Basically the people that don't want the minimum wage increase are the non fast food restaurant workers who worry that their tips will shrink drastically if this happens because they won't be seen as "underpaid" any more, and ironically the "social justice" nonprofits who will either have to cut staff or get more money.

[Devonai]

Huh, I'd never thought about it from the perspective of wait staff.  If I knew that my waiter/waitress was getting $15/hour, I would only tip for exceptional service.

In reality, I don't see why there wouldn't be the same exception for wait staff that there is now, although I would expect the minimum rate to increase proportionally. In that case, there would still be a reason to tip at least 15%.

[Balog]

I'm sure the unions who base their pay scale on a % of the minimum wage will be delighted, and the politicians who receive generous bribes campaign contributions from those unions will feel good about themselves.

[Bigjake]

I'm sure the unions who base their pay scale on a % of the minimum wage will be delighted, and the politicians who receive generous bribes campaign contributions from those unions will feel good about themselves.

Ding ding ding.

I think we've hit the salient point.  That,  and raising the wage resonates with the morons class. 

[lee n. field]

I think we've hit the salient point.  That,  and raising the wage resonates with the morons class. 

The predictable thing will happen, and they will double down on stupid.

[birdman]

I'm sure the unions who base their pay scale on a % of the minimum wage will be delighted, and the politicians who receive generous bribes campaign contributions from those unions will feel good about themselves.

Not just unions, even without contracts, normal folks are going to demand proportional increases.  After all, say you are making $15 now, you are making double minimum.  If minimum goes up, then what?

[never_retreat]

There goes the dollar menu.
What is the current minimum out there? That would be doubling the minimum here.

[Balog]

Seattle's current minimum is $9.32.

But I'm sure no business will increase prices to compensate for their increased expenses. And if they do, well, I guess we'll just have to put some price controls in place. Did I mention Seattle has a member of the Socialist Party on the City Council?

What's that, small businesses are firing people to offset the increased costs? Better expand unemployment benefits and punish people for doing that.

In reality, this will mainly affect the businesses on the margins. It'll hurt but not kill the rest. Kind of like if we deliberately infected everyone with the flu. Mostly only the old or immuno-compromised would die, but it will just add to the crushing burden everyone else already bears.

[Regolith]

I think you're going to see a lot of businesses flee the city, probably to one of the nearby suburbs. The ones that will remain will be the ones that already pay their employees more than that and the few service industry businesses that depend on the higher paying ones, and those will see a lot more automation.

Seattle is going to turn itself into a somewhat nicer looking Detroit if it's not careful.

[MechAg94]

There goes the dollar menu.
What is the current minimum out there? That would be doubling the minimum here.

Yeah, the cost of a cheap meal has gone up a lot in the last 20 years.  In college, the bare bones burger combo at fast food places was still $3.  It is probably twice that now.

[RoadKingLarry]

I can still remember the McDonalds combo- burger, fries and a drink and change back from a dollar.

[makattak]

I can still remember the McDonalds combo- burger, fries and a drink and change back from a dollar.

I can't recall that, but I can recall when the minimum wage would buy you 5 gallons of gas for an hour of work. (Disregarding taxes, of course.)

Which this law would almost do... sadly NOT the way I would prefer to get back to that parity.

[RevDisk]

Socialist Alternative Party, class struggle, international socialist organization, etc Why not just call themselves communists? Because that's what they are. 


Eh, they are right on wage stagnation. That is a real issue. But I suppose tackling illegal immigration, reducing regulation overhead, incentivizing increasing one's payroll, etc are "too hard". Easier to raise the red banner and start singing L'Internationale.

[MillCreek]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/okay-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-in-seattle-but-plus-tips/

Tom Douglas is one of the leading restaurant owners in the Seattle area and he has some interesting thoughts on the $ 15/hour minimum wage.

[Sergeant Bob]

If increasing the minimum wage to $15 is so great, why not increase it to $30 and hour?

[Balog]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/okay-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-in-seattle-but-plus-tips/

Tom Douglas is one of the leading restaurant owners in the Seattle area and he has some interesting thoughts on the $ 15/hour minimum wage.

All of the hardline socialist business owners who really really want to have nanny .gov control things but are faced with the realization that it'll out them out of business are hilarious.

[RevDisk]

All of the hardline socialist business owners who really really want to have nanny .gov control things but are faced with the realization that it'll out them out of business are hilarious.

I noticed that. And laughed. I love it when people get that absolute look of horror when they get what they wanted, good and hard. Almost as hilarious as true believer communists that froze to death in Siberia because they actually believed in communism and didn't figure out how to play ball with the party elite.

I bet statist true believer tears are even more sweet than a hippy's wailing lament.

[brimic]

Not just unions, even without contracts, normal folks are going to demand proportional increases.  After all, say you are making $15 now, you are making double minimum.  If minimum goes up, then what?

Yes.
What is not talked about is that the inflation is direct theft from the middle class.
If hypothetically, I were making $15/hr then demanded $30/hr after minimum wage goes to $15, All is well and good if the employer adjusts my wages accordingly (Lets say I'm hypothetically in a union, which ties its pay rate/increases relative to the minimum wage).  All is well and good until I figure out that the $50,000 I have in my hypothetical savings to send my kid to college is not going to rapidly double in value, while the tuition does.

[Devonai]

See, the trick is to have nothing in savings like me.  HA!

[Tallpine]

See, the trick is to have nothing in savings like me.  HA!

You say that like it's funny 

[Devonai]

(Devonai bursts into tears)

[Hawkmoon]

There goes the dollar menu.

The dollar menu was already pretty much gone. Just about everything on it that was a dollar maybe a year or a year and a half ago is now $1.49 ... and the "value" menu is a lot shorter now than it was when it was the "Dollar Menu."

[Firethorn]

But I'm sure no business will increase prices to compensate for their increased expenses. And if they do, well, I guess we'll just have to put some price controls in place. Did I mention Seattle has a member of the Socialist Party on the City Council?

I heard about this on NPR.  Did you know that the Socialist is campaigning heavily for a tips exemption/credit on the wage?

The issue of minimum wage increases has become more complicated for me.  You have people who's labor is really only worth the lower wage.  You also have people who's labors have far higher economic benefit, but are paid less because they're easily replaceable, meaning they lack bargaining ability.

The latter is where the economic 'benefits' from raising the minimum wage come from - the extremely wealthy are both more skilled and in better positions on the bargaining table, better able to accumulate that wealth.  But they're looking to invest, and I think we've reached a point where additional investment is of limited value.  So you get hugely inflated values for infrastructure, extremely low interest rates(because everything more worthwhile has already been invested in), etc...  Raise the minimum wage and the low income types get more money(on average), which they then spend on the economy buying 'stuff', which makes the economy go round. 

You need the consumption to justify the businesses.  As such, I think the government should act as a sort of economic "unemployment insurance", acting to keep the economy rolling when a downturn occurs, then getting out of the way(other than collecting taxes to pay back into the insurance fund) when an upswing occurs.  Stability is the name of the game.

Other than that, how do we encourage consumption, business, employment?  I'd say get out of the way of small businesses.  Start clearing out all the bullshit protective regulations.  Unless it deals in hazardous chemicals a hair salon shouldn't need extensive licensing.  It should take less than 20 hours of legal wrangling to open up a silk-screening store, etc...

Create a labor shortage amongst the minimum wage types and wages will take care of themselves.

[MillCreek]

On the NPR series on this subject, I learned that there is not a consensus among economists that raising minimum wage increases consumption and thus puts more money into the economy.  There is not yet a lot of data proving or disproving this theory.