Post by: SalukiFan on September 29, 2005, 01:54:29 PM
I was looking at the motor oil section and noticed that they have special "high-mileage" motor oil now.
Has anyone used it? Is it worth it? (It comes with it's own special "high-mileage" price)
Will it make my engine last longer or what?
Post by: Paddy on September 29, 2005, 02:21:35 PM
Quote
I usually use Pennzoil 5w30 and a new Fram oil filter each time I change the oil somewhere between 3,000 and 4,500 miles.
You're doing everything right except the Fram filter. They're basically crap.
Post by: SalukiFan on September 29, 2005, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: RileyMc
Motor oil collects dirt and combustion byproducts which are abrasive. The longer it's in the engine, the dirtier it gets. Modern oils really do not break down. "High mileage" oil is a marketing gimmick.
Are Fram filters crap? I had no idea. What would you recommend instead?
Quote
I usually use Pennzoil 5w30 and a new Fram oil filter each time I change the oil somewhere between 3,000 and 4,500 miles.
You're doing everything right except the Fram filter. They're basically crap.Post by: Sindawe on September 29, 2005, 03:08:50 PM
Check out this site, http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi for additional information/debate about oils.
The "budget" Frams are garbage. The top end Frams are still OK though. Wix and Napa Gold are currently considered some of the better filters.
Post by: Ben on September 29, 2005, 03:11:59 PM
Quote
You're doing everything right except the Fram filter. They're basically crap.
I generally agree with that statement, except for the Toughguard. There used to be a really great webpage that is now 404, where some engineers did an in-depth analysis of different filters (cut them open, analyzed materials both before and after use). Parts I remember were that all the Frams (basically the radioactive orange ones) except the Toughguard were pretty much bottom of the barrel (apparently after an ownership and manufacturing technique change some years ago, when they were all good filters). The Toughguard was actually rated as one of the top five. The only other brand in the top five I remember was Motorcraft. I happen to use both those filters, which is probably the only reason I remember them from the list.Edited to add: Sindawe's post jarred my memory. I remember Wix mentioned as good quality.
Edited again: Actually that link kicked in the other two on that top five list -- I think they were a NAPA filter and one of the Purolators.
Post by: SalukiFan on September 29, 2005, 04:09:16 PM
Luckily, my Camry doesn't consume a lot of oil so I don't think the reduced oil consumption is a big factor for me. My understanding of the mechanics of motor oil is limited so some of theoildrop.server101.com forum conversation seemed over my head but through a search, I was able to find some good information. Thanks for the link Sindawe.
I think I'll give the high mileage motor oil a try and throw on a better filter and see how it goes.
Post by: Azrael256 on September 29, 2005, 04:46:37 PM
Quote
You're doing everything right except the Fram filter. They're basically crap.
I used to work in one of those McDonalds auto shop places. Not quite JiffyLube, but only a half-step or so up. I've cut open a whole bunch of filters. Those el-cheapo off-brand filters that you get from places like JiffyLube, Penzoil filters, and Fram all look absolutely identical on the inside. The Toughguard filters are much different, as are STP filters and Wix. I recall the Motorcraft filtered engines having the nicest looking oil no matter what the age of the vehicle."High mileage" oils are different. Vehicles that usually burn a great deal of oil will burn less on those oils. I know that just from checking. There is no such thing as a 10,000 mile oil change, so don't bother with the "extended protection" BS. Just as Riley said, oil changes have more to do with contamination than oil breakdown. Btw, modern oils will break down. We had an idiot come in with what we estimated to be 15,000 mile old oil in his car. After five times the recommended life, the oil had become so filthy that it really just wouldn't flow anymore, and it began to cook in various places around the engine. We drained out a clear-ish fluid, much lower viscosity than new oil, and some sort of charred-looking sediment that was floating in it. I still don't know just how that happened, but there you have it.
Post by: Standing Wolf on September 29, 2005, 05:17:09 PM
He kept suggesting she take it in for an oil change and tune-up.
"Nope," she insisted. "They did all that at the factory."
It finally stopped running after about five years. At that point, she took it back to the dealer to complain she'd been sold a lemon. Even the dealer couldn't persuade her she was supposed to have the car serviced now and then. Muttering and cursing all the way, she invested the costs of an oil change, new tires, and a tune-up in the car, and drove it several more years.
Her advice to me as a novice driver was to "line up the hood ornament with the curb, and you'll be all right."
Amazingly, she never had a wreck, nor ever received a traffic ticket.
Post by: Sindawe on September 29, 2005, 05:26:40 PM
Post by: Guest on September 29, 2005, 11:25:05 PM
Post by: 280plus on September 30, 2005, 12:40:30 AM
This reminds me, time to change the oil in all my vehicles...
Post by: cfabe on September 30, 2005, 03:42:12 AM
Post by: mfree on September 30, 2005, 03:47:36 AM
I'd avoid fram, period. If they cost-cut as much as they do on the regular flters it's just a matter of time before that effort "trickles down" into the TG's.
Post by: Paddy on September 30, 2005, 06:36:33 AM
Post by: SalukiFan on September 30, 2005, 06:41:00 AM
Post by: DrAmazon on September 30, 2005, 07:07:50 AM
Post by: richyoung on September 30, 2005, 07:11:02 AM
Part ONE: "Mineral Oil? Filter? We don't NEED no stinking filter!"
Early internal combustion engines were lubricated with oil from castor beans, the infamous "castor oil" that used to be administered as a laxitive. This was really, REALLY hard on early pilots, as the exhausts and engine leaks exposed them to a steady diet of castor oil fumes - thus the "dashing young men in their flying machines" were actually dashing...to the latrine! Clearances and seals were so loose that the oil probably never stayed in the engine LONG enough to go bad, as it was contantly being replaced. Filters? Heck many of the engines of the day had NO OIL PUMP - the rods slamming into the cankcase splashed oil all over - called "splash oiling". Fast forward to the '30s - engines are starting to use "mineral oil", refined from petroleum, and with additives. In the interest of longevity, most now have at least a partially pressurized oil system - still no filter though - a simple screen over the pump intake is all thats there. Air filters are primitive, if present at all, and the metallurgy of bearings, cranks, valves, and blocks is only slightly improved. The fuel contains tetra-ethyl lead, as both a "top end" lubricant, and an octane enhancer. The question now arises, since the newer technology is sealed better, "How long do we run on one "change" of this new oil? Engineers and chemists got together, greased up their slip sticks, and decided for aircraft and heavy equipment, 50 hours of operation was about right. When it came to cars, slight problem - no detailed logs of operation are normally kept, nor is there a timer for hours of operation - so they "swagged" an average speed of 30 MPH, multiplied it by 50 hours, to get a recommended oil change interval of 1,500 miles.
FAST FORWARD to the '50s: The modern "spin on" oil filter is coming into use, much better than a screen (which is still there) at purifying the oil - everything has at least an "oil bath" air filter, if not an oiled paper-element or foam filter for the air. Automatic chokes are starting to reduce the time the engine runs excessively rich, which reduces oil contamination by unburned fuel over "manual chokes". Modern overhead-valve systems replace "flathead" valve-in-block technology and REQUIRE a fully pressurized oil system - as a side benefit, mians and rod bearing oiling is also improved. Real advances in engine component materials are starting to be seen. Vastly improved additives are now in "motor oil". NOW, how long do we run on one "oil change"? Again, airplanes led the way - 100 hours was thought to be safe. Again, they "swagged" 30 MPH,...and came up with the "3000 mile oil and filter change".
The '60's and 70's- blocks get tougher - the automakers, who want to avoid using expensive aluminum for blocks and heads, add tin and other alloys to cast thin, strong, "lightweight" iron castings - which also are more wear-resistant. Technology for seals starts to incorporate neoprene, nylon, and other synthetic materials - bearing metal improves...
The '80s up to now - What few carbs are still hanging on are computer controlled - everything else is one form or another of fuel injection - ELIMINATING fuel contamination of oil. Synthetic oils, and conventional oils with improved additive packages cope with foaming, coking, acid, dirt, viscousity break-down, and moisture MUCH better. Thermostats are 15 degrees hotter, lead has been removed from gasoline, removing another oil contaminant. Oil filter technology improves, with some "extended life" filters claiming lifetimes in excess of 15,000 miles, aircraft and major fleets use oil analysis to determing if oil needs to be changed - how long do you run it in your car? Especially when some manufacturers are recommending oil change intervals in excess of 7,500 miles? The answer in part two....
Post by: richyoung on September 30, 2005, 07:33:07 AM
Question: when does most engine wear occur?
Answer: At start-up. At least 80% to as much as 95% of ALL engine wear occurs in the first 30-60 seconds of engine operation after start.
Question: Where is the oil during all this wear?
Answer: Sitting in the crankcase - waiting to be pumped to the parts.
IMPLICATION: Synthetic, dino, clean, dirty, DOESN"T MATTER - so long as you don't run it long enough to SLUDGE THE ENGINE, approximately 90% of engine wear is BEYOND your ability to control - unless you go to a dry sump system or hydraulic accumulator that allows you to pre-oil the ngine before firing, routinely.
Oil doesn't "wear out" - its additives become depleated, and it becomes contaminated. "Dirty" looking oil is NOT necessarily bad, or ready to be changed - the oil has detergent additives to keep dirt in suspension - "dirty" looking oil just means the detergent is doing its job. IF you change the oil every 3000 miles, you probably will never have an oil-related issue - of course, you also probably wouldn't have one if you changed the oil and filter every time you started the engine, (except wearing out the threads on the drain plug...), - BUT you DON'T - because it would be a waste of $$$ - JUST like a 3000 mile oil change is! If you change too often, you waste a scarce natural resource, the excess waste oil has to be disposed of somehow, you have less money for other things....and the owner of the "kwicky-loob" gets to send his son to Harvard! I have driven over 25,000 miles on ONE oil change - this in an LT1 in a Firebird that was driven HARD - NO engine problems! The oil was synthetic, (Mobil One), the filter an extended life model, and most of the miles were highway miles. The KEY is to keep the crankase topped off - even if it is only 1/4 of a quart low - top off. This replenishes the additives.
Advice: FOLLOW your manufacturer's recommended standard service interval, (or the "towing/severe duty" interval IF you primarily drive short trips and/or live in a particularly dusty environment, like Oklahoma....) when using regular "dinosaur" oil and conventional filters...if outside of the waranty period, you can safely DOUBLE that with fully synthetic oil and extended life premium filters. EXCEPTION: diesels and turbocharged engines that don't have a seperate oil system for the turbo bearings OR a "feed after engine shutoff" oil system to thte turbo - THOSE applications should RELIGIOUSLY follow their manufacturer's service intervals, with synthetic oil and premium filters being good "insurance" on top of that. The reason is that turbos get very hot - they can literally "cook" the oil in them, especially after being run hard and shut off. Diesels have tighter clearances, more combustion by-product contamination, more fuel dillution of oil, and higher operating pressures (that's why they sound like they are about to blow...), consequently, they are much harder on oil. A turbo-diesel? I don't HAVE one, but if i did, I'd..."religiously change the oil and filter every 3000 miles..."
Your mileage may vary -
Rich
Post by: DrAmazon on September 30, 2005, 10:13:52 AM
Post by: richyoung on September 30, 2005, 10:21:27 AM
Quote from: DrAmazon
What if you have an oil that is more viscous, or has more "stick" to the metal (can't think of the scientific term)? Those properties mean that there is more oil remaning on the intert parts when the majority of the oil has infact drained into the crank case. That residual oil is what will protect those parts on startup.
You would THINK that - but it doesn't work out that way in practice - the temperatures of the internal engine components range from that of the water jacket - about 200 degrees F - to in excess of 1000 degrees. At those temps, ALL the oil, regardless of viscosity, runs off pretty fast - just like the chicken at KFC - only more so, because its metal - not food. Try this experiment at home: pick any oil-based salad dressing - (I prefer French or Thousand Island - your salad may vary...), tighten the cap, and TURN THE BOTTLE UPSIDE DOWN. Go ahead and put it back in the fridg, (don't want to cause food poisoning for anybody!) Come back 4 hours later, and see what, (if anything) is sticking to the bottom (now top) of the bottle - THATS what is left on your engine parts at start-up! (Again, its worse with hot metal than cold glass or plastic.)The idea does make for a good comercial tho - doesn't it!
Post by: Art Eatman on September 30, 2005, 10:59:05 AM
I've been running Fram filters since around the early 1960s, and have rebuilt over 100 engines during the years. Sporty-car racing, hot-rodding, and buying "dead" sports cars for rebuild/resale.
I've mostly stayed with the GTX 20-50, since I never lost oil pressure with it during races. Full-throttle for a half-hour in July/August in Texas is a pretty good test. I started out running Pennzoil Z-7 30 and 40 weight in my Formula Vee, which is a pretty good test. I had a Valvoline deal during my one year of Formula A; never had any bearing trouble, and I was turning to 8,500 rpm.
I've generally changed oil in 3,000 to 3,500 mile intervals...
Art
Post by: Declaration Day on September 30, 2005, 12:58:46 PM
I own a small lawnservice company and our newest truck, which also serves as my daily driver, is a 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD. Between pulling the lawnservice equipment 6 days a week, 6.5 months per year, and snowplowing, these trucks get one heck of a workout.
I change the oil once a month in that truck, no matter what it looks like or how many miles are on it. I do it myself, use the cheap stuff, and can do the job for $10. On top of that, it's a write off, and a tiny drop in the bucket of my company's monthly expenses. I paid $34,000 for that truck and I need it to last a long time, so I get peace of mind if nothing else!
Post by: Waitone on September 30, 2005, 04:11:56 PM
Filter? WIX private labels a large number of filters including CarQuest, NAPA, Texaco, and many others. Go to WIX HQ and browse the samples case in the lobby. To the best of my knowledge FRAM does not private label.
Post by: Antibubba on September 30, 2005, 08:59:09 PM
Yay or Nay?
Post by: 280plus on October 01, 2005, 02:23:06 AM
Quote
Now's my chance to ask about the Amsoil bypass filters and accessories.
Does this have anything to do with Amway?
Post by: DrAmazon on October 01, 2005, 04:42:34 AM
Quote from: richyoung
You would THINK that - but it doesn't work out that way in practice - the temperatures of the internal engine components range from that of the water jacket - about 200 degrees F - to in excess of 1000 degrees. At those temps, ALL the oil, regardless of viscosity, runs off pretty fast - just like the chicken at KFC - only more so, because its metal - not food. Try this experiment at home: pick any oil-based salad dressing - (I prefer French or Thousand Island - your salad may vary...), tighten the cap, and TURN THE BOTTLE UPSIDE DOWN. Go ahead and put it back in the fridg, (don't want to cause food poisoning for anybody!) Come back 4 hours later, and see what, (if anything) is sticking to the bottom (now top) of the bottle - THATS what is left on your engine parts at start-up! (Again, its worse with hot metal than cold glass or plastic.)
The idea does make for a good comercial tho - doesn't it!
You're making the assumption that all "oils" are the same and have identical properties. They do not. Think about the different oils and greases you use for your guns.The idea does make for a good comercial tho - doesn't it!
Salad oil is completely different in composition than motor oil. Salad oil is made of fatty acid esters. Most mechanical lubricating oils are completely hydrocarbon (C and H atoms only). The fatty acid esters in salad oil are chosen to have the flow properties that you want for a salad dressing. No one would want salad dressing that flowed like motor oil. Lastly, the attractive forces of salad oil to plastic is different than those of motor oil to metal.
Apples and oranges.
Post by: DrAmazon on October 01, 2005, 04:47:41 AM
Quote from: 280plus
Quote
Now's my chance to ask about the Amsoil bypass filters and accessories.
Does this have anything to do with Amway?My filter system is in an odd place under the hood, and a filter got dented in a wreck. Eventually it developed a leak. The local vendor was very polite and sent me over to a nearby mechanic for installation. Everyone involved was polite, efficient etc. I found working with the AmsOil people to be very positive.
Post by: Guest on October 01, 2005, 09:09:45 AM
Engine designs, some are engineered, then when the engine don't work " right" they holler at some Lube folks " Make something that will work in this thing".
Some engine designs have poor designs - period. Some were great, then TPTB started tweaking and messing to get more out of them, meet marketing races, EPA...and whatever.
Running hotter, hot spots, metallurgy and you name it.
Enter Gas. Gas qualities have changed. Some areas get Reformulated, Sulfer contents vary, summer grade, winter grade.
It is my understanding the Phosphorus and Zinc levels in oils had to be reduced to keep catalytic converters from going on the bling.
To damn much of this stuff is regulated, be it .gov, .bunnyhugger,.treehugger, or whomever. Somebody "says" and creative marketing "sells" the reasons why these changes were made. Is 5w-20 "really that good or is it because it gest better milage and a Mfg line overall CAFE comes down? I mean the mean mpg of SUV and economy looks better on paper...
Sump, well in Europe they have bigger sumps and Petrol products are expensive! Not only Petrol, but engine oils. Bigger sumps do a more efficient job, not only lubricating - but cooling as well. Fuels are different, both petrol and diesel.
Fuels do enter into this, the acids , fuel dilution of oil only driven in town , short hops, rarely getting up to temp vesrus one that is driven at highway speeds , up to operatiing temps. Be it dino, semi dino, or syn dino.
Contaiminants like dust, salts from road salt. coastal areas , and all sorts of stuff contaiminant from poor filtration and change oil properties too. Dino and Synthetic.
WE have better basestocks and additive packages today than we did twenty years ago. The differences of Dino and Synthetic is narrowing.
Like I said, what engine design, how maintained and inpected, fuel, how driven, environment...
Gun fit to shooter for task intended. Inspect and maintain.
Same principles applies to other life stuff.
Oil, Feed, tires, carpet cleaning, vet visits...too many variables.
If something sounds too good - probably is.
Post by: SalukiFan on October 02, 2005, 05:39:23 AM
I think I'll probably go for a high-quality oil filter, conventional oil and possibly an additive like Slick 50 like I said before. I might also consider lengthening the time between my oil changes although I wonder if my 3,000 mile interval hasn't helped my engine if my Fram oil filters have been of questionable value.
Thanks for the info everyone!
Post by: Guest on October 02, 2005, 06:14:20 AM
Adding something to an oil is 1) going to/ may cause additive clash 2) mess up the oil chemistry.
Then there is the fact DuPont specifically says to NOT use Teflon in motors. Refuses to sell it to folks that wanted to, some folks "obtained" teflon from other sources put into aftermarket oil stuff, and lawsuits ensued. FTC got involved and many of the 'Oil Add" stuff were sued for false advertising - pulled off the market.
Some companies ( or the name only) are back out there with " new and most wonderfullest chemistries" * Caveat Emptor*
Filter by Wix, Havoline / Chevron has great basetocks and add packages. Pennzoil or Castrol GTX works well too, depends on region and availablity.
Read the manual for specs for your temp range for oil weight [ 5w-30, 10w-30...]
Replace the PCV with factory - second choice is NAPA replacement. Never get a cheap PCV valve.
Don't overfill.
I just assisted with a classmates - AC Delco Fitler $2.69, Gallon jug of Havoline 5w-30 for $5.98 and one quart for $1.58. Hers takes 4.5 quart with the filter. Advance Auto carries the Havoline, and takes old oil. Autozone next door to them has the AC Delco OEM filters. NAPA was not on her/ our route or we would have bought the better Wix filter.
I figure being Oct, come January be time do change again. Lots of stop and go, short trips for her. Winter time and start up wear, fuel dilution...won't have the miles, better to change out the contaiminants early. For <$12 , why not? Cheaper than what some damages that can occur can cost.
Yeah I did the hard part. I put the PCV valve in [ OEM AC Delco] handed her wrenches, paper towels, oil filter and suggested she get back down and get the other jean pocket stained with oil to match the left one.
I put in the 1/2 quart of oil and let her pour in from the jug the othr 4 quarts...I did hold the funnel for her...being a gentleman and all.
While she was cleaning up the driveway, I drove onto a brick in a clean area of driveway and made sure drain plug snug , filter snug. I even let her buy me a hamburger after all was done and let her turn in the used oil.
And you folks thought I was not a nice guy....
Post by: Art Eatman on October 02, 2005, 08:42:12 AM
In 1980 or so, some Slick 50 peddlers hired me to test their product. I took a good-used Chevy sedan and ran a baseline test for idle speed and gas mileage. Fresh oil change and new spark plugs and all that. I then added Slick 50 per instructions. No, the idle speed didn't increase. No, the gas mileage didn't improve. On the peddlers' instructions, I added more Slick 50. No change from the baseline test. I'd already been paid for the first phase of work, but when my report went to them they stiffed me for the balance due.
Mouse Milk.
Now, I HAVE found that STP will let you sell a car with a nearly-junk crankshaft...
Art
Post by: Guest on October 02, 2005, 09:53:14 AM
Yeah that works.
Helps to turn the volume knob to the right on the radio too, you know, to show how good the Resistor plugs do cut down on the static.
*ahem*
Real important that radio works, seems to be what folks really interested in...
Customer : car makes a noise
Mechanic : turn up the radio - ya won't hear it..
Post by: Guest on October 02, 2005, 10:27:07 AM
Subtitled : How to change a Volvo into a Mercedes.
TRUE story.
Banker fella has a Trophy wife. Ditsy as all get out, but she throws a great party and gets the Fancy doo dads sent on time , knows the right Caterers, and does the Thank You notes.
Volvo is the current one you are supposed to have being the Trophy Wife and all. I mean all the other Trophy Wives have 'em.
Well the Volvo is getting old it seems, I mean 13 months old is "old" has nothing to do with the fact the new Trophy Wife - mobile is that new Mercedes coming out...Besides ...THE Jones, the Insurance Guy has already put an order in for his Trophy Wife...
Banker is doing some serious Banking Business, out of town, entertaining clients at the Duck Club.
Volvo has this diagram showing something needs fluid. Great, Banker guy is out of town, the Dealer won't answer the phone at home, and the yard guy - how dare him take Sunday off ...
Hood gets raised, looks at diagram, she has a College Education and all...Looks under the hood, diagram, hood, uses the Copper Flower Water Spout [ shush dont' tell - it was supposed to be deocorative only] and puts water in .
Scrubs with bacterial hand soap and some kind of lotion. after getting the hood back down.
I am sitting in the Country Club, sipping my coffee listening to this story. I set my cup down because I knew it was gonna get better...
Seems the diagram showed the windshield washer fluid was low. Forget the fact the fluids are labeled with real big letters, that oil fill matched up about where the washer fluid goes looking under the hood.
Well she didnt' tell anyone - too mad to tell anyone, I think a nail got out of whack.
Drove it Sunday until Friday...that is when everything finally went 'nutzoid' - I mean she pulled into the Dealer, snagged a car to make the luncheon in the nick of time...
Just easier to buy a MB and gain serenity. Besides Big Folks coming to town and Trophy Wife needs to be happy.
There is no good was to ask a Trophy Wife how water got poured into the oil fill. Volvo folks didn't need it explained, and they only went to Volvo Auto Tech School.
Being a Banker, who happens to have the MB dealer as a customer...you can get a MB trucked in from Dallas right fast.
Uh oh, the ladies are back with Trophy Wife leading the way. Us Boys need to go outside to smoke anyway.
Banker fella and the other couples men-folk do not look real happy, they perk up and put on fake smiles when the ladies return...
Saw the new Benz, cracking up laughing all the while...
I asked the valet where my truck was - he said he had to move it, Trophy Wife had remarked the mud dripping off of it was 'tacky'. He sprayed off my truck over near the Tennis Court, even rinsed off the mats, parked it "over there".
We laughed even harder.
Post by: richyoung on October 02, 2005, 04:08:37 PM
Quote from: DrAmazon
Quote from: richyoung
You would THINK that - but it doesn't work out that way in practice - the temperatures of the internal engine components range from that of the water jacket - about 200 degrees F - to in excess of 1000 degrees. At those temps, ALL the oil, regardless of viscosity, runs off pretty fast - just like the chicken at KFC - only more so, because its metal - not food. Try this experiment at home: pick any oil-based salad dressing - (I prefer French or Thousand Island - your salad may vary...), tighten the cap, and TURN THE BOTTLE UPSIDE DOWN. Go ahead and put it back in the fridg, (don't want to cause food poisoning for anybody!) Come back 4 hours later, and see what, (if anything) is sticking to the bottom (now top) of the bottle - THATS what is left on your engine parts at start-up! (Again, its worse with hot metal than cold glass or plastic.)
The idea does make for a good comercial tho - doesn't it!
You're making the assumption that all "oils" are the same and have identical properties. They do not. Think about the different oils and greases you use for your guns.The idea does make for a good comercial tho - doesn't it!
Salad oil is completely different in composition than motor oil. Salad oil is made of fatty acid esters. Most mechanical lubricating oils are completely hydrocarbon (C and H atoms only). The fatty acid esters in salad oil are chosen to have the flow properties that you want for a salad dressing. No one would want salad dressing that flowed like motor oil. Lastly, the attractive forces of salad oil to plastic is different than those of motor oil to metal.
Apples and oranges.
Post by: mfree on October 03, 2005, 04:13:14 AM
Hydraulic bearings work because the oil sticks to the metal surfaces, and since one is spinning and the other is stationary the one that's spinning "drags" oil into the spots where the surfaces are closer, pushing them apart. This makes the shaft want to center itself in the bearing.
Post by: Art Eatman on October 03, 2005, 04:31:06 AM
Well, yeah, mfree, but it helps to have that oil pump pumping...
, Art
Post by: richyoung on October 03, 2005, 04:50:56 AM
Quote from: mfree
Actually high speed lubricants *must* stick or otherwise there'd be no "hydraulic wedge" effect.
Hydraulic bearings work because the oil sticks to the metal surfaces, and since one is spinning and the other is stationary the one that's spinning "drags" oil into the spots where the surfaces are closer, pushing them apart. This makes the shaft want to center itself in the bearing.
That's a different kind of "stick" - it doesn't apply to a hot engine that has been shut off - there is NO oil on the parts to speak of at start-up - thats why so much of the engine wear occurs then. It is also why the Silver Hill restoration facility coats the cylinders of aircaft engines with anti-friction coastings when they restore them for display - so little oil remains on the cylinder walls that routine re-positioning of the propellors for display purposes will score the cylinder walls without it - and thats using special "pickling" oils, not regular motor oil. It also why ALL the engine rebuild manuals tell you to spin the oil pump with a drill before firing the engine for the first time - if oil, or even assembly lube, could be counted on to stick to the parts, this step wouldn't be needed before firing up your 454 chevie...
Hydraulic bearings work because the oil sticks to the metal surfaces, and since one is spinning and the other is stationary the one that's spinning "drags" oil into the spots where the surfaces are closer, pushing them apart. This makes the shaft want to center itself in the bearing.