cases like this steam me up

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there are already automatic appeals that won't change a thing

i think a dime for concealing exculpatory evidence might encourage good behavior

[De Selby]

Fistful, a death penalty conviction should not be treated as a routine case - it's only supposed to be handed down in exceptional cases, and the additional procedures that go with it reflect that fact.

Some localities have notoriously unreliable fact finding processes - it's all well and good to say "well, fact finding isn't the job of superior courts" when a civil judgment or a five year sentence is on the line, but it's more reasonable to question the process when someone's life is on the line.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in my state a black democrat gov got conclusive proof a young black man did not commit tje murder but in the name of politics only commuted the sentence to life  in florida after an innocent man was released from jail after 27 years   10 on death eow the former prosecutor   now a judge said "hell i convicted lots of less guilty guys than that!"  thats unacceptable

[Perd Hapley]

Fistful, a death penalty conviction should not be treated as a routine case - it's only supposed to be handed down in exceptional cases, and the additional procedures that go with it reflect that fact.

Obviously I disagree with current practice, but thanks for pointing that out. I suppose you refer to the idea that the death penalty should be reserved for "brutal" murders, while gentle, considerate murderers should not face anything like justice. That's never made sense, but apparently a lot of people are fine with that.

Some localities have notoriously unreliable fact finding processes - it's all well and good to say "well, fact finding isn't the job of superior courts" when a civil judgment or a five year sentence is on the line, but it's more reasonable to question the process when someone's life is on the line.

I didn't say what you wrote there in quotation marks. I was talking about automatic appeals that skip directly to a supreme court, bypassing all the courts in between, that would normally hear an appeal. Obviously, if a case needs to go all the way to the top, it should.

[Waitone]

Blatant, in-your-face diddling of the justice system by prosecutors, LE, and medical examiners will continue right up until the time they are personally held accountable for their personal conduct while in the employ of the judicial system.  On one extreme we have Tejas and its enthusiasm for the death penalty.  One the other extreme you have Charlotte, NC's unqualified refusal to conduct murder trials.  Both are wrong.  Both perpetuate injustice.  Both commit people to death wrongly.  And both get away with it because the good citizens care not to get involved. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in va it varies from county to county  some place almost never go death [enalty others go after it often

interestingly faquier county doesn't go after it much after they screwed the pooch so royally with earl washington

[roo_ster]

i think a dime for concealing exculpatory evidence might encourage good behavior

Sounds good to me.

yea
this though i wanna muck with

not wanting to badmouth any one state but both va and texas have some less than glorious moments in our legal systems. i think being real hard core law and order carries a risk of making mistakes in that push to "get em"

things like this
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/local/stories/DN-DNAlineups_05pro.ART.State.Edition2.4a899db.html

cast a pall over the entire system

as does giving a guy 190 k for 15 years in the joint for something he didn't do.  i can safely claim to not be soft on criminals but the mistakes burn me up cause they do it in my/our name

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Facts_on_PostConviction_DNA_Exonerations.php

these folks bring up some good points that i believe you share about forensics that to be candid i wasn't aware of till they were brought up here
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Facts_on_PostConviction_DNA_Exonerations.php


and outa 239 exonerated folks 40 are in texas 12 are in va  both states are over represented when you figure that those 239  cases came in 34 states

CSD, I was referring to  (# cases overturned on appeal) / (# convicted & got DP).

IMO, Innocence project has the same credibility that infowars & similar sites have.  IOW, Not much, because the bullshinola content is so high it makes the nuggets of fact too hard to work for.

For instance, IP and some other anti-DP groups are ranting about a guy in Texas "convicted and executed on old and out of date forensic fire techniques" that new, improved fire forensic voodoo thinks now was in error. 

Now, if that was what convicted the guy, I'd be there with the IP.  Old-school and contemporary fire forensics are worthless, if one takes the scientific method and related statistical techniques with any seriousness.

What IP and the other anti-DP groups aren't saying is that the dude convicted himself with his mouth and talked his worthless *expletive deleted*ss onto the highway to Hell. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

are we talking about the same arson case?  i looked a long time at that one  saw it differently

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/us/20texas.html

its the reluctance to look or allow others to look that gives rise to the nasty stench

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So popular is the death penalty here that Mr. Perry’s main opponent in next year’s Republican primary for governor, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, has taken the rather novel approach of suggesting that his actions have lent ammunition to opponents of capital punishment.

“The only thing Rick Perry’s actions have accomplished is giving liberals an argument to discredit the death penalty,” she said in a statement. “We should never do anything to create a cloud of controversy over it with actions that look like a cover-up.”

[roo_ster]

are we talking about the same arson case?  i looked a long time at that one  saw it differently

Maybe.

If you read some of the interview xscripts, maybe you'd think otherwise.  They'd need squat for forensic evidence after the performance he gave.  Just read his own words and play the tape to the jury and he'd be toast.  When he passed, Texas's mean IQ went up a point or two and justice was done, IMO.

Re-looking at the fire forensics would be akin to consulting a shaman and having him look at chicken entrails.  Fire forensic "science" was crap then and is crap now.  I wouldn't re-open the case so current charlatans can shake their fetishes at the evidence.

If the IP or other folks want a real, live guy who was convicted on such "science," they have several candidates to choose from.  Here's one I knew who is presently in federal "pound me in the ass" prison on such "science."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-lonestar_08cco.ART0.West.Edition1.43cb5dc.html

Severns's case has been discussed in other venues besides DMN.

KBH is just pissed she lost to Governor Goodhair.  And between Gov Goodhair and Debra Medina, 70% of Texas Republicans said to her, as she retires from the US Senate, "Don't let the door hit you in the *expletive deleted*ss on the way out."  She is at heart a squish on this & many other issues and only grows a spine when Texans send her phone into orbit.


To make it plain, in case I haven't been: Nobody ought to be convicted of jaywalking on the strength of contemporary fire forensic "science," let alone murder or arson.  If the oxygen thief Texas offed a few years back had only such evidence against him, it would have been an injustice and I, as a juror, would have voted "not guilty."

Luckily for most of society, most crooks is dumb and some manage to talk their way into prison or worse.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

heres a poster child for the anti folks
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39769332/ns/us_news
  not only did this poor sob spend nearly 3 decades locked up but even though we know who really did it they walked   i'd really like to see how many more victims those 4 men had that could have been spared had the system not failed