Author Topic: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated  (Read 6418 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2010, 05:21:42 PM »
Who's society are you talking about here?

Western Society.
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"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2010, 06:38:25 AM »

Yes, the Constitution was produced by men with entirely different values from those of modern men.


Huh.

Constrained and minimalized government. Carefully restricted allowance for taxation. Sanctity of private contract. Rule by law rather than by theology. Limited yielding of specified powers to the government with all others reserved to the people. Democracy through a multi-tiered representation. Separation of powers. An armed citizenry to resist tyranny. The intentional inability to silence the minority opinion. Security in property and privacy. And all rights being inherent in a person's humanity and existence rather than bestowed by the government.

I, good sir, beg to differ.

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2010, 08:09:37 AM »
Huh.

Constrained and minimalized government. Carefully restricted allowance for taxation. Sanctity of private contract. Rule by law rather than by theology. Limited yielding of specified powers to the government with all others reserved to the people. Democracy through a multi-tiered representation. Separation of powers. An armed citizenry to resist tyranny. The intentional inability to silence the minority opinion. Security in property and privacy. And all rights being inherent in a person's humanity and existence rather than bestowed by the government.

I, good sir, beg to differ.


But how many people believe in such things today as compared to how many want the government to nanny them cradle to grave? Sadly I think his statement is correct with regards to a large minority if not majority of the people living today. It's not a good thing, but I think that is the way it is, but maybe that's just my pessimism showing.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2010, 09:33:53 AM »
But how many people believe in such things today as compared to how many want the government to nanny them cradle to grave? \

Ah, but look at it in reverse. How many back then didn't bother themselves with such things in the same manner as people do today? Going with willingness of military service as a crude and probably thoroughly unscientific benchmark for a set of values that I'll arbitrarily label "patriotism" we are looking at roughly the same number of people. If I recall, only about 3% of the population actively participated in the revolutionary war at any given time, with about 8% of the total population having participated over the entire course of the war. Currently 8% of the national population are Veterans. If we focus solely on the number of them that joined voluntarily after discontinuing the draft we see a number closer to the three percent mark with one percent of the population both on active duty and reserve at any given time.

My own blithe and likely unfounded and indefensible comparisons aside, I again direct my attention to MB's statement that late 18th century Americans wholly held no values contemporary to the modern American. Such is to assume an absolute and total abandonment and separation from the basic tenets of justice and freedom, in addition to a wide array of righteous morals and ethics that comprised the common revolutionary era gentleman and at the most basic level even an extant  sense of right and wrong. The simple fact that anyone here is at all  defending the connection of the mores of newly founded 18th century Americana with modernity is itself proof that such an absolute assertion is false and the flame of those most sincere of axioms still flickers, however dimly, with a most obstinate intransigence to utter extinguishment.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 05:47:29 PM by kgbsquirrel »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2010, 11:01:40 AM »
bolding mine

MB's statement that late 18th century Americans wholly held no values contemporary to the modern American. MB's statement that late 18th century Americans wholly held no values contemporary to the modern American.

thats a long reach
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2010, 11:11:39 AM »
Quote from: kgbsquirrel
The simple fact that anyone here is at all  defending the connection of the mores of newly founded 18th century Americana with modernity is itself proof that such an absolute assertion is false and the flame of those most sincere of axioms still flickers, however dimly, with a most obstinate intransigence to utter extinguishment.

Very pretty.  Downright eloquent, even.

Do you mind if I borrow that?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

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longeyes

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Re: Constitution and Declaration are racist and dated
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2010, 12:05:15 PM »
We are modern men BECAUSE of the "antiquated" values embodied in the Constitution.  Are the values of the Enlightenment dead?  I don't think so.  Are the values of the Ten Commandments also obsolete?  I don't think so.  Who says the contemporary notions of sexism, racism, et al. are necessarily true and enlightened?  Maybe they are wishful thinking or contain their own misguided agendas.

My view of our seminal documents is that they are the DNA of our America, allowing for ordered growth while still maintaining our identity as a political species.
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