Author Topic: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...  (Read 9662 times)

Marnoot

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,965
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2010, 12:44:39 PM »
Quote
Suddenly, Berry and 40,000 other Michigan private day-care providers have learned that union dues are being taken out of the child-care subsidies the state sends them.

Eh, my sympathy for her waned at that last bit there. In my mind, she is a government employee if she's taking free government taxpayer money.

Strings

  • APS Pimp
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,195
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2010, 03:47:51 PM »
Oh, I don't have MUCH sympathy for her. But being suddenly told "Hey... you're a union drone now" has to be major suckage...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Sergeant Bob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,861
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2010, 11:42:06 AM »
Eh, my sympathy for her waned at that last bit there. In my mind, she is a government employee if she's taking free government taxpayer money.

Well, she is providing a service, which the government is paying for in lieu of the client. Using your logic, the government should be able to unionize Walmart and Safeway because they do, after all, take food stamps (free government money).
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Marnoot

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,965
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2010, 12:49:56 PM »
Never said I approve of the unionizing thing, I don't, just that I don't approve of the subsidies. If she's receiving them on behalf of specific clients, that's one thing, as I'd view the client as the recipient; but if she just receives a lump-sum for running a day care, that's another thing entirely.

S. Williamson

  • formerly Dionysusigma
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,034
  • It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2010, 01:02:13 PM »
 :facepalm:

Wait, so let me get this straight...

She runs a business.

She gets government money as a subsidy.

The union starts taking a portion of her subsidy (and others') against (t)he(i)r consent and will.

So the union is receiving government money, simply because it has declared it can do so.

HOW IS THIS LEGAL?  :mad:
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

Angel Eyes

  • Lying dog-faced pony soldier
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,343
  • You're not diggin'
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2010, 03:30:08 PM »
Even the union-loving S.F. Chronicle is catching on:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/13/INSD1DRDIC.DTL


For public employee unions - those representing police, firefighters, teachers, prison guards and agency workers of all kinds at the state and local levels - these are the worst of times.

Despite record high membership and dues, and years of unparalleled clout in state capitols, public-sector unions find themselves on the defensive, desperately trying to hold onto past gains in the face of a skeptical press and angry voters. So far has the zeitgeist shifted against them that on one recent weekend, government employees were the butt of a "Saturday Night Live" skit, and the next day, a New York Times Magazine cover article proclaimed "The Teachers' Unions' Last Stand."


Public unions' traditional strength - the ability to finance their members' rising pay and benefits through tax increases - has become a liability. Although private-sector unions always have had to worry that consumers will resist rising prices for their goods, public sector unions have benefited from the fact that taxpayers can't choose - they are, in effect, "captive consumers."

At some point, however, voters turn resentful as they sense that:

-- They are underwriting, through their taxes, a level of salary and benefits for government employment that is better than what they and their families have.

-- Government services, from schools to the Department of Motor Vehicles, are not good enough - not for the citizen individually nor the public generally - to justify the high and escalating cost.

We are at that point.

In California, government-sector unions, once among the most entrenched and powerful labor groups in the country, mainly have themselves to blame. For most of the postwar period, they were a force for progressive change, prospering by winning over public support for their agenda.

In the 1970s and '80s they backed laws like the Public Records Act and Brown Act to make state and local government more transparent. Because unions enjoyed broad-based political support, efforts to enhance government accountability and responsiveness to voters were seen - correctly - as benefiting the unions and their members. The public interest and public employees' interests were aligned.

But the unions switched strategies. Although the change was gradual, by the 1990s, California's government unions had decided that, rather than cultivate voter support for their objectives, they could exert more influence in the Legislature, and in the political process generally, by lavishing campaign contributions on lawmakers. Adopting the tactics of other special-interest groups, government unions paid lip service to democratic principles while excelling at the fundamentally anti-democratic strategy of writing checks to legislators, their election committees and political action committees.

While not illegal (in fact, such contributions are constitutionally protected), the unions' aggressive spending on candidates put them on the same moral low ground as casino-owning tribes, insurance companies and other special interests that have concluded that the best way to influence the legislative process is to, well, buy it.

Public unions' distrust of voters, and abandonment of government transparency as a union objective, could be seen in their successful push, in the mid-1990s, for a change to the Brown Act, California's open-meeting law. The new provision ensured that the public would have no access to collective-bargaining agreements negotiated by cities and counties - often representing 70 percent or more of their total operating budgets - until after the agreements were signed.

What happens when voters and the press have no opportunity to question elected officials about how they propose to pay for a lower retirement age, better health benefits for retirees' dependents, richer pension formulas and the like? The officials make contractual promises that are unaffordable, unsustainable and, in general, don't come due until after those elected officials have left office. In the case of Vallejo, this veil of secrecy and the symbiotic relationship it fosters led to municipal bankruptcy.

The biggest blow to unions' public support has come from revelations about jaw-dropping compensation and pension benefits. Police have received unwelcome attention for budget-busting overtime and the manipulation of eligibility rules for "disability pensions," which provide higher benefits and tax advantages. Other government employees, particularly managers, have been called out for "pension spiking": using vacation time, sick pay and the like to boost income in the last years of employment, which are the basis for calculating retirement benefits.

Such gaming of the system boosts starting pensions to levels that can approach, and even exceed, employees' salaries. Some examples from the reporting of the Contra Costa Times' Daniel Borenstein: A retired Northern California fire chief whose $185,000 salary morphed into a $241,000 annual pension; a county administrator whose $240,000 starting pension was 98 percent of final salary; and a sanitary district manager who qualified for a $217,000 pension on a salary of $234,000. At a time when most Californians anticipate an austere retirement (if they can afford to retire at all), government pensions are a source of real voter anger.

The harm to the credibility of public employee unions from these excesses is made far worse by the unions' attempts to hide them. The revelations about pay and pension abuses have surfaced only as a result of lawsuits. (The First Amendment Coalition has been a plaintiff in several of these cases.) Public employee unions, could have, and should have, taken the lead to stop abusive pension practices, which mainly involve managers and other senior staff. Instead, they have vigorously opposed disclosure of individual employees' salaries and pension amounts.

Public employee unions need to reboot. The old strategy of cynically buying political influence and excluding the public from decision making has run its course. Unions can rebuild public support by recommitting to an agenda of open government in the public interest. If they don't, they will be further marginalized.


Peter Scheer, a lawyer and journalist, is executive director of the First Amendment Coalition, a California nonprofit dedicated to government transparency and political accountability. Contact him at www.firstamendmentcoalition.org.


"End of quote.  Repeat the line."
  - Joe 'Ron Burgundy' Biden

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2010, 08:38:47 AM »
Michelle Berry runs a day-care business out of her home in Flint, MI. She thought that she owned her own business, but Berry's been told she is now a government employee and union member. It's not voluntary. Suddenly, Berry and 40,000 other Michigan private day-care providers have learned that union dues are being taken out of the child-care subsidies the state sends them. The "union" is a creation of AFSCME, the government workers union, and the United Auto Workers.

My response:  Oh goody!  I'd then proceed to apply for the rest of benefits provided to government employees - medical care, pension, etc...

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Think unions are all "benevolent and stuff"? Think again...
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2010, 07:58:22 AM »
Update:

The Marine "won."

http://foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=327722.proteus.fma

Short version: MA lawmaker adds an exemption to another bill that allows Marine JR ROTC instructors to opt out of unions.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?