Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: vaskidmark on April 10, 2015, 08:26:06 PM
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http://www.ambulancedriverfiles.com/2015/04/10/yellow-freight-loses-entire-charterarms-show-inventory/
TL/DR - Yellow Freight has signed receipts for 4+1 crates of Charter Arms stuff for the NRA Annual Meeting. Box #5 - the one full of all the display guns - has not made it to the display floor.
Charter says Yellow Freight screwed up. Says they may sue. Yellow Freight says we have signed receipts.
ATF to be notified.
All sorts of people are/are about to be unhappy. (Including, I'll bet Charter's legal staff once they check out the signed receipts and verify the handmade sign.)
[popcorn]
stay safe.
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If it is anything like the signatures UPS does sometimes, they may not be good signatures.
With the data storage these days, you would think they could take a picture as well as take a signature on those hand held devices they carry.
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That said, if you are going to steal a crate of guns, you would think they would target one of the other manufacturers.
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If it is anything like the signatures UPS does sometimes, they may not be good signatures.
Back when, I would often sign "B. de Clown". Not that that scrawled looked any different from my usual signature.
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That said, if you are going to steal a crate of guns, you would think they would target one of the other manufacturers.
No kidding.
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Interesting. Very interesting. *Puts load auditor and OS&D guy hat* [tinfoil]
I'm going to assume the story is correct as written. YRC (Yellow/Roadway, they combined a few years back) may or may not be in the clear. There's two LTL freight bills in play here, one for four pieces and one for one piece (the gun crate). The bill for four pieces? Completely irrelevant as it's an entirely different shipment that was received in full.
Problem comes in with the other bill with the gun crate, and very good on Charter for putting their sensitive shipment on it's own bill with it's own Pro number which makes things easier as the one important create is it's own shipment entirely, but may also bite them in the ass. By now I'm sure YRC sent them their copy of the POD for the one pallet. Step one for Charter, or their agent, should have been making sure the signature matches one of their guys and also jives with the date/signature on the other bill that was presumably received on the same trailer. Step 1.5, while they were waiting for YRC to get back to them with that, should have been locating their copy of the POD. YRC bills are carbon copies, YRC gets the top copy back and you keep the bottom carbon copy. Basically checking for red flags. If there isn't one, YRC actually has a good leg to stand on. Actually a better leg to stand on since the crate in question was it's own shipment with it's own POD that they can point to as being delivered and signed for. ATF might choose to make YRCs life hell, or they might take a look at YRCs signed POD, and barring any red flags tell them to have a nice day and switch their attention to whoever received it for Charter.
That said, YRC would be wise to check bone piles and storage trailers at any terminal it passed though or could have been misdirected to, as well as any consignees it might have been delivered to by mistake(and based on my experience with them, is very likely doing or already finished this). Hell, the guy doing the unloading could have signed for it and left it on the trailer and it ended up back in the terminal and in a bone pile/OS&D storage trailer. Or the next guy in line could have taken an early Christmas gift. Either way, you sign for it you own it unless you can come up with a damn good reason.
TL:DR version of all that, barring any red flags Yellow probably is actually in the clear here if the POD they have back was signed for by someone at the Consignee, particularly if it lines up with the other bill for the four pallets. That said, stuff gets signed for and left on the truck or misloaded onto the wrong trailer all the time, so the YRC OS&D folks are crossing their t's and dotting their i's making sure the pallet isn't floating around in one of their bone piles or storage trailers. Charter and their agent would be wise to do the same on their end.
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http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2015/04/10/charter-arms-guns-for-the-nraam-lost-by-the-shipper/
This site links back to the story above. More comments though.
I talked to the Charter Reps, and Yellow is apparently giving them a different story every time they call…
This is an interesting comment if true. I do tend to agree that sometimes you end up with really lazy people at warehouses who make sure the paperwork is good, but could care less about the actual shipment. I guess that type can show up anywhere.
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All the more reason for Charter to get their ducks in a row and review their paperwork. If it made it to its destination and the rep for charter signed it they have a carbon copy of what YRC got back.
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All the more reason for Charter to get their ducks in a row and review their paperwork. If it made it to its destination and the rep for charter signed it they have a carbon copy of what YRC got back.
I was curious if it was Charter that received it or the convention center receiving people.
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More than likely it was consigned to the convention or a receiving agent. It's possible Charter had one of their people in place to receive the stuff at the convention end but I don't think so. Regardless of who exactly it was they should have all proof of deliveries on file and need to be checking them for both PODs. If the paperwork lines up YRC can look for the missing container, and will, but if they don't find it then they're no longer part of the festivities coming along with a missing crate of guns.
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If they don't find it, I think YRC will be part of it regardless unless someone can show proof the actual crate was off loaded where they said it was, not just paperwork.
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If you had a pick a crate of magical disappearing guns, it wouldn't be charter.
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If they don't find it, I think YRC will be part of it regardless unless someone can show proof the actual crate was off loaded where they said it was, not just paperwork.
That's what the paperwork is, that's why it's referred to as a proof of delivery. Truck gets there, you take stuff off, pro number on the freight is matched up to the paper freight bill, and someone at the consignee signs it, and there is a stipulation right there on the line you sign that you're received everything connected to that freight bill unless you specifically note it on the freight bill. That's their legal proof that they delivered the freight, and short of some red flag they are in the clear. Especially when we are talking a shipment for one crate/pallet and the entire thing is missing. Sure, they've got an OS&D department. Because sometimes parts of a shipment go missing or is damaged, and mistakes do happen so it is in their interest to investigate claims. But if they have a clear POD, there are no red flags, and the consignee doesn't have some proof that they didn't receive it ("We can't find it" is not proof) then the carrier is legally in the clear. And they will have a name in they're system, either from the signature if it's legible or they asked the receivers name when the bill was handed back, so it's not simply a matter of "that chicken scratch isn't ours"
Now if there's some red flag that pops up? Or the receiver isn't someone who works for the consignee? Or they don't actually have a signed POD at all? Or the consignee can prove they didn't get the freight? Different story. But YRCs proof of delivery is in order the ATF or anyone else investigating is liable to take one look at the signed POD, verify there's no red flags or funny business, and move on to the entity that signed for the shipment and expect them to answer where a crate of guns went.
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Chances are that there wasn't anyone from Charter signing for the shipments. It would have been delivered to the Convention Center and those folks would sign for it.
Someone there currently has a real high pucker factor if YRC has a POD.
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Chances are that there wasn't anyone from Charter signing for the shipments. It would have been delivered to the Convention Center and those folks would sign for it.
Someone there currently has a real high pucker factor if YRC has a POD.
Be interested to know exactly where/who the shipment was consigned to.
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Be interested to know exactly where/who the shipment was consigned to.
The article said the crate with the guns was shipped to a remote warehouse. That was probably S.O.P. for the show, and all exhibitors were required to do the same. Their booths and stuff got shipped directly to the convention hall so they could be set up, but I'm sure neither the NRA nor their exhibition producer nor the convention hall wanted a bunch of guns lying around while workers were setting up the booths.
One would hope that a warehouse being used to store a LOT of guns would have had some sort of video survellance.
Stay tuned.
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The article said the crate with the guns was shipped to a remote warehouse. That was probably S.O.P. for the show, and all exhibitors were required to do the same. Their booths and stuff got shipped directly to the convention hall so they could be set up, but I'm sure neither the NRA nor their exhibition producer nor the convention hall wanted a bunch of guns lying around while workers were setting up the booths.
One would hope that a warehouse being used to store a LOT of guns would have had some sort of video survellance.
Stay tuned.
One would hope, and would likewise hope that the system did not have an "unfortunate" blip in its operation. The management should have the same hope, or that the paperwork doesn't back it up as coming there.
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Has anyone seen any updates on this?
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Has anyone seen any updates on this?
No, and apparently Yellow Freight has not, either.
http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2015/04/13/you-cannot-make-this-stuff-up-i-have-to-side-with-charter-arms/
Apparently not everybody at Yellow Frieight is aware of the incident and scurrying their backsides off trying to find out what happened (or armorplate their backsides).
stay safe.
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I searched around a little more and didn't turn anything up. The only new information since the original post indicates that Yellow Freight may not have all their paperwork lined up as well as they ought to.
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I bet they rent a Uhaul next time.
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Gun Free Zone is the only other thing I've seen on this incident.
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Thank you to all who turned out at the NRA show! Thank you also for your comments of concern. It's is a shame our revolvers were not located in time for the show but the crate has been located and is on its way back to us now.
CA on facebook
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We've had freight companies falsify PODs on us at work. Lost deliveries, fake signatures, stuff like that.
How much weight does a POD really carry in a legal/criminal investigation?
I bet they rent a Uhaul next time.
We did that once. Critical delivery, didn't trust the freight guys. I drove the truck.
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We did that once. Critical delivery, didn't trust the freight guys. I drove the truck.
We do it fairly often. Especially for stuff in D/FW where one of us might be planning to go soon anyway. I really don't like having to find a place to park a company truck and gooseneck trailer at a nice date restaurant, but what the heck; 200+ miles worth of fuel on the company's dime instead of mine, (even if it is 4x as much diesel as the gas my car would need) plus I get to leave the office earlier and beat the rush hour traffic.
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We've had freight companies falsify PODs on us at work. Lost deliveries, fake signatures, stuff like that.
How much weight does a POD really carry in a legal/criminal investigation?
We've never had them actually falsify one. I get stacks/emails all the time that they send back to us that they got back without a signature/count/something else out of order.
As to weight, I'm not one of the company lawyers but to my knowledge it's binding. I looked at one yesterday and this is what a YRC bill states on the signature line- "YRC tariffs limit carrier’s liability. All freight received in good order and shrinkwrap/banding intact unless otherwise noted." You've then got lines for printed name, signature, date, and time. We don't sign this line, we stamp it with a subject to later count stamp and sign that with a pallet count, because frankly we're big enough to tell them to FOAD this is how we sign our bills. Even with that one of our unloaders periodically screws up and either signs for a pallet we didn't get, or signs for a pallet and leaves it on an LTL(less than load, IE truck with shipments to multiple folks) by mistake. When it get noticed sometimes they can find it sometimes they can't. We've had plenty of instances of can't and each and every time we've had to pay for it. The last pallet of vitamins was worth more than I make over the span of a few years :facepalm:
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Drivers here will forget to bring the paperwork when they deliver. Or bring the wrong paperwork. "No problem, I'll fix it when I get back to the depot. You don't need to sign."
We had a lost shipment where the freight company swore up and down that we received and signed for our crate. The signature didn't match up to anyone who works here, and it was signed at a date/time when our office was closed. The freight company signed the POD themselves to dodge responsibility.
The best one was when we paid extra to buy an on-time delivery guarantee for an overseas shipment. The shipment was late and we tried to collect. Turns out the guarantee only guarantees the cost of buying the guarantee. So either the shipment is on time and they keep your fee, or it's late and they return the fee. No matter what happens they never have to pay out for a late shipment.
Don't get me started on the damage they'll do to our stuff if given half a chance. Or to our building when backing up the truck. :facepalm:
My opinion, these guys are all crooks.
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I was thnking that I have seen Fedex and UPS stuff left at my door where the online tracking update says "signed". It hasn't really been a problem, but if the paperwork is commonly wrong then it isn't worth much. The problem is proving that it is "commonly wrong" and having something worth sueing over.
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I am curious what the circumstances were on finding the crate. Did the shipper have it or did they find it at the warehouse?
If the shipper had it, I can imagine that Charter could try to hold them liable for lost sales.
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I remember a time that UPS damaged a part my company sent out. They never returned said part, just a notice that it had been damaged and "trashed." I filed a claim which was denied based on "insufficient" packaging. I called my CSR and told them that if the claim didn't get paid ASAP I was going to file a theft claim with the police department since the damaged part hadn't been returned. Claim was paid less than 24 hours later.
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This story came to mind today. Anyone hear about any updates for this? Did they ever find the guns?
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I filed a claim which was denied based on "insufficient" packaging.
I know I've posted it elsewhere, but back when the Pentium chip was brand new and just the chip was over $800, we shipped a complete system to one of our customers. UPS ran a forklift through the box, both sides of the steel case, motherboard tray and the motherboard, shattering the socket and shearing several pins off the chip. They tried to claim insufficient packaging. When our lawyer pointed out that no reasonable packaging would be tougher than the two layers of steel plus the bracing and internal structure they ran through, they paid.
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This story came to mind today. Anyone hear about any updates for this? Did they ever find the guns?
Google is silent since April.
One might have thought Charter would have said something if/when their guns were found. Or Yellow Freight when they proved it was not their fault.
Bupkis. Nada. Dead air.
[tinfoil] + :police: = [popcorn]
stay safe.