GOP: Losers!

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/11/House-GOP-Caves-Will-Lift-Debt-AND-Reopen-Government

GOP blinked.

The democrats give to them, nothing... and take from them, everything.

Obama is even stoopider than the Stupid Party if he doesn't accept this, because the next shutdown inside this proposed framework WILL be the GOP's fault in the public's eye.

[AmbulanceDriver]

[censored]

[censored][censored]

[censoredcensoredCENSOREDcensoredcensoredCENSORED!!!censoredcensoredcensoredcenSORED]

lilly-livered gutless spineless pieces of [censored] chicken [censored] yellow bellied nutless morons.

Yet again the stupid party manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Got another source?
CNN say
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?hpt=po_c1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Scout26]

Reid and Obama rejected their 6 week offer.  According to the new report I heard on the radio the R's a negotiating their surrender.

 


All they had to do was hold out.  Now, they'll get nothing later.  Morons.


 

[Sergeant Bob]

Got another source?
CNN say
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?hpt=po_c1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

From the story:

Much of the discussion of late revolves around a proposal from House Republicans to increase the federal borrowing limit for about six weeks to avoid a potentially harmful default as soon as October 17, when the Obama administration says the government will run out of money to pay its bills.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Do you know how you (collectively) can tell if Obama's lying? Of course you do.

[Gowen]

Really people, did you expect anything different from our Washington reps?  They haven't failed us yet have they?  The leadership will bend over and grab ankle first sign of bad press they see.

[brimic]

Boehner never fails to disappoint.

His M.O. at every turn has been to bluster, angrily stomp his feet, and put on a political kabuki (or was that bukakke? I get the two mixed up) show then give obama everything he wants.
Every. Single. Time.

Link below explains it all.
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm

[French G.]

His M.O. at every turn has been to bluster, angrily stomp his feet, and put on a political kabuki (or was that bukakke? I get the two mixed up) show then give obama everything he wants.

Well that's a disturbing mental image. I will say that the APS betting line had Boehner caving pre-dawn Oct 1, so at least we got two weeks of hilarity out of it.

[roo_ster]

Conflicting reports out there.

Would not be surprised to see Boehner capitulate.   Here's hoping that like the Tin Man found his heart, the tan man can find his spine.

[Boomhauer]

Dammit hell the Dems were busy making themselves look like *expletive deleted*it and all the Republicans had to do was kick back and let the administration screw itself over in the court of public opinion but no the Republicans have to go and end the best thing they had going for them.

[TommyGunn]

Dammit hell the Dems were busy making themselves look like *expletive deleted* and all the Republicans had to do was kick back and let the administration screw itself over in the court of public opinion but no the Republicans have to go and end the best thing they had going for them.

It's the STUPID party ...wadja 'spect?

[charby]

Maybe its brilliance, all they are doing is raising debt ceiling. This doesn't address immigration reform, gun control and other leftist agenda items. Perhaps digging in just long enough to get the Dems all worried about Gov completely shutting down, then raise the debt ceiling, then do it all again in six weeks.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Well, I'll be darned....   Obama is dumber than The Stupid Party:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/house-senate-saturday-session-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98218.html?hp=t1_3

He has apparently rejected the House GOP offer.....

[Kingcreek]

I think its a race to the bottom,
And we all lose.

[roo_ster]

Well, I'll be darned....   Obama is dumber than The Stupid Party:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/house-senate-saturday-session-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98218.html?hp=t1_3

He has apparently rejected the House GOP offer.....

It is looking to be a freakish competition, where each side sees how many times it can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[brimic]

Squeee!

[geronimotwo]

I think its a race to the bottom,
And we all lose.

two parties driving the same cart.  the only difference is that they dangle differently colored carrots.

[Hawkmoon]

Maybe its brilliance, all they are doing is raising debt ceiling. This doesn't address immigration reform, gun control and other leftist agenda items. Perhaps digging in just long enough to get the Dems all worried about Gov completely shutting down, then raise the debt ceiling, then do it all again in six weeks.

Somebody please explain to me why it would REALLY be TEOTWAWKI for the U.S. to default?

1. The interest on the national debt is one of the largest line items in the national budget. Politicrats love to talk about "deficit reduction," but they don't ever talk about "deficit elimination." The fact is ANY budget deficit still means the debt increases ... just maybe not as much or as fast as it did the year before. Default on the debt, and it's a new ball game.

2. Other countries have done it to screw us out of repayments that were due to us. Why shouldn't the U.S. default? Would it really be a BAD thing if a default were to result in foreign countries and entities being so happy to buy the United States? Would it really be a BAD thing to leave America for Americans to own?

3. How is defaulting on the debt significantly, inherently different from just printing more money with which to pay said debt?

I'm not real smart. Somebody help me out here ...

[seeker_two]

Well, I'll be darned....   Obama is dumber than The Stupid Party:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/house-senate-saturday-session-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-98218.html?hp=t1_3

He has apparently rejected the House GOP offer.....

Obama....doing the job no GOP leader has the balls to do....

[AZRedhawk44]

Somebody please explain to me why it would REALLY be TEOTWAWKI for the U.S. to default?

1. The interest on the national debt is one of the largest line items in the national budget. Politicrats love to talk about "deficit reduction," but they don't ever talk about "deficit elimination." The fact is ANY budget deficit still means the debt increases ... just maybe not as much or as fast as it did the year before. Default on the debt, and it's a new ball game.

2. Other countries have done it to screw us out of repayments that were due to us. Why shouldn't the U.S. default? Would it really be a BAD thing if a default were to result in foreign countries and entities being so happy to buy the United States? Would it really be a BAD thing to leave America for Americans to own?

3. How is defaulting on the debt significantly, inherently different from just printing more money with which to pay said debt?

I'm not real smart. Somebody help me out here ...

Murray Rothbard has an excellent analysis why defaulting on the debt is the only honorable and rational thing to do.  I was shocked when I read such a scandalous proposition, but I agree with the logic behind it.

[HankB]

Don't get all excited - there's nothing to be surprised about.

Just like we can count on Obama/Reid/Pelosi to take the action which is most harmful to the country on nearly every issue, we can count on a Boehner-led House to ultimately grovel before The Anointed One and his votaries, giving them everything they want.

[Scout26]

Remember the largest holder of US is.....






The Social Security Trust Fund !!!

Here's all the dirty details:

Question: Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

Answer: The U.S. debt is more than $16.7 trillion. Most news headlines focus on how much the U.S. owes China. And, in fact, China is the largest foreign owner of U.S. debt. However, the biggest single owner of national debt is the Social Security Trust Fund, aka your retirement money. How does that work, and what does it mean?

The Debt Is in Two Categories

The U.S. Treasury manages the U.S. debt (among other things) through its Bureau of the Public Debt. The Bureau has broken out the debt into two main categories: Intragovernmental Holdings ($4.8 trillion) and Debt Held by the Public ($11.9 trillion).

Intragovernmental Holdings - Just under one-third of the Federal debt is owed to about 230 other Federal agencies. How does this happen? Some agencies, like the Social Security Trust Fund, take in more revenue from taxes than they need right now. Rather than stick this cash under a giant mattress, these agencies buy U.S. Treasuries with it.

This effectively transfers their excess cash to the general fund, where it can be spent. Of course, one day they will redeem their Treasury notes for cash. The Federal government will either need to raise taxes, or issue more debt, to give the agencies the cash they will need.

Which agencies own the most Treasuries? Social Security, by a long shot. Here's the detailed breakdown:
    Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.764 trillion
    Office of Personnel Management (Federal Employees Retirement, Life Insurance, Hospital Insurance Trust Funds, Postal Service Retiree Contributions) - $826.8 billion
    Military Retirement Fund - $419.5 billion.
    Uniformed Services Retiree Health Care Fund - $189 billion.
    Dept. of Health and Human Services (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $260 billion
    Department of Energy - $54.8 billion.
    Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation - $33 billion
    Department of Labor (Unemployment Trust Fund) - $30 billion
    Department of the Treasury (Exchange Stabilization Fund) - $26 billion
    Other Programs and Funds - $260 billion. (Source: Treasury Bulletin, Monthly Treasury Statement, Table 6. Schedule D-Investments of Federal Government Accounts in Federal Securities, August 30, 2013)

Debt Held by the Public - Foreign governments and investors hold about half of the nation's public debt. A little over one-fifth is held by other governmental entities, like the Federal Reserve and state and local governments. Fifteen percent is held by mutual funds, private pension funds, savings bonds or individual Treasury notes. The rest  is held by businesses, like banks, and insurance companies and a mish-mash of trusts, businesses and investors. Here's the breakout:
    Foreign - $5.724 trillion
    Federal Reserve - $1.794 trillion
    State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $703.5 billion
    Mutual Funds - $946.4 billion
    Private Pension Funds - $457.7 billion
    Banks - $341.4 billion
    Insurance Companies - $263.3 billion
    U.S. Savings Bonds - $181.7 billion
    Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.497 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, March 28, 2013;  Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of March 2013)

This debt is not only Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also TIPS, Savings Bonds, and State and Local Government Series securities.

As you can see, if you add up debt held by Social Security, and all the retirement and pension funds, nearly half of the U.S. Treasury debt is held in trust for people's retirements. If  the U.S. default on its debt, foreign investors would be angry, but the greatest harm would befall the average U.S. citizen.

Why Does the Federal Reserve Own Treasury Debt?

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve is in charge of the country's credit, so it really doesn't have a financial reason to own Treasury notes. So why did it double its holdings between 2007 and 2013? That's when it began its program of Quantitative Easing. It stimulated the economy to escape the grips of the 2009 recession by purchasing more Treasury notes. This stoked demand for Treasuries and kept interest rates low.

The Fed's been criticized for simply monetizing the debt. The Fed purchases Treasuries from its member banks, using credit it created out of thin air. This has the same effect as printing money. It keeps interest rates low, avoiding the high-interest rate penalty the Federal government would usually incur for excessive debt.

However, as the economy returns to normal, the Fed announced it will taper its $85 billion-a-month purchases of Treasuries sometime in the fall of 2013. As a result, interest rates on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note rose from a 200-year low of 1.442% in June 2012, to around 2.9% in the summer of 2013. For more, see Relationship Between Treasury Yields and Mortgage Rates.
What About Foreign Ownership of the Debt?

The breakout of foreign-held debt shows that China was the largest holder, at $1.276 trillion (as of June 2013). Japan came in second, at $1.108 trillion. The Caribbean Banking Centers have also increased their holdings in recent years, and are now third, holding $291 billion. The Bureau of International Settlements has stated that the Caribbean centers, Luxembourg (at $151 billion) and Belgium ($176 billion) are probably fronts for oil-exporting countries and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions.

The oil exporting countries have increased their holdings, and edging up to become #4 at $256 billion. Brazil is the fifth largest holder, at $254 billion. The next largest holders are Taiwan, Switzerland, Russia, Hong Kong and the United Kingdom, holding between $124-$186 billion each. (Source: Foreign Holding of U.S. Treasury Securities, August 15, 2013; U.S. Treasury report ”Petrodollars and Global Imbalances”, February 2006)

China has increased its holdings, from $1.147 trillion, in the last year. It's obviously not too concerned that the U.S. will default on its debt. China wants to keep the value of the dollar high. This makes its own currency, the yuan, relatively cheaper by comparison. That helps China's exports to the U.S. seem more affordable, which helps its economy grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, it's happy to be America's biggest banker, and largest foreign owner of U.S. debt. Article updated October 10, 2013

[BlueStarLizzard]

Oh screw it. Let it default. We knew Social Security was gonna fail anyway.

[Scout26]

It can't go on forever.  All Ponzi scheme's eventually run out of new suckers.

[BlueStarLizzard]

It can't go on forever.  All Ponzi scheme's eventually run out of new suckers.

I figure the sooner it crashes, the better off I'll be. I pay into that system and I'm never going to see a dime of it.

The sooner it crashes, the better off the younger generations are going to be. Sorry too the old geezers, but life goes on.