Author Topic: GOP: Losers!  (Read 11773 times)

charby

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Re: Re: Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2013, 02:48:44 PM »
Boo-hoo.  There weren't 80 year old sheriffs in the 19th century, either.  It wasn't a lifetime job, any more than NFL player is, or infantryman.

You didn't learn enough to be valuable for your creativity, intellect and wisdom in the last 60 years?  Tough cookies. 

How many people actually lived to 80 in the 19th century?

Do you want to be doing your job or even working for 60 years?

What about all the old people working keeping the job market flooded so the young are unable to find decent paying jobs?
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Balog

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2013, 02:54:00 PM »
Even if you think the .gov should be America's retirement account, that's not relevant.

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement plan. It was designed around the idea of helping the very few people who lived past age X so that doddering ancients were not dying in the streets. It cannot, and was never intended to, provide benefits to most people. And it certainly cannot support the very recent idea of everyone retiring autonomously.

Whether you want the fed.gov to do those things or not isn't relevant. The program, by design, cannot support what it is being called on to do. You may need to move a few yards of dirt, but your '83 Camry isn't going to be up to the task no matter how much you want it to be.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Re: Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2013, 02:54:33 PM »
How many people actually lived to 80 in the 19th century?


Not many.  Life expectancy will go down when we expect people to work past 65, too.  It's artificially high due to the vampirism of social security and medicare.

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Do you want to be doing your job or even working for 60 years?


Want?  Did you really throw "want" and "feelings" into a logistical financial discussion?  That's kind of a weak argument, don't you think?

Of course I "want" to retire.  I want to right now.  But I can't, so I don't.  Some day I may have the means to do it.  We'll see.  But I'm not counting on BSL and Jocassee to be held at gunpoint by hired mercs to give me money.

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What about all the old people working keeping the job market flooded so the young are unable to find decent paying jobs?

Better than taxing the young people, paid at lower salaries than the greyhairs in the market currently, and giving those greyhairs social security and medicare.  Even better would be eliminating all the hurdles for people to improvise, open new businesses or just engage in individual entreprenureship, and take care of themselves.
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Re: Re: Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2013, 03:14:03 PM »
How many people actually lived to 80 in the 19th century?

Do you want to be doing your job or even working for 60 years?

What about all the old people working keeping the job market flooded so the young are unable to find decent paying jobs?

I have to say it, a person needs to live below their means.  Save for retirement, put money away and not live on credit!  The American people have bought into the sham of buy the biggest house you can't afford, buy all the newest, latest gadgets, credit cards, mortgages are your greatest friend/tax write off.  I worked hard, paid off my house, bought cars with cash and did not go into debt buying stupid junk that's meaningless.  I don't have write offs, but I don't have a large income tax bill either.   I have 0 debt, I can work at anything I want and short of electric/internet/phone/taxes I have no bills.
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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2013, 03:35:03 PM »
Quote
What about jobs/careers that require younger stronger people? Could you imagine a 80 year old police officer or a 80 year old electrical lineman?
Find a new one? Position yourself into a job that you will be able to work at 70 before you hit a wall? Work your way into desk work related to your field? Set yourself up so you can afford to step down to a part time job? Make smart investments or get a job with a pension plan that will allow you to collect after X number of years? Seriously, plenty of options if you live smartly.

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How many people actually lived to 80 in the 19th century?
How many folks collected social security in the 19th century?

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Do you want to be doing your job or even working for 60 years?
I don't particularly want to be doing my job or working now. It's irrelevant.

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What about all the old people working keeping the job market flooded so the young are unable to find decent paying jobs?
That's much more a factor of crappy economy, government idiocy, heavy tax burdens, and various issues contributing to the number of available jobs not keeping up with the number of folks entering the work force.
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charby

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 04:35:59 PM »
Even if you think the .gov should be America's retirement account, that's not relevant.

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement plan. It was designed around the idea of helping the very few people who lived past age X so that doddering ancients were not dying in the streets. It cannot, and was never intended to, provide benefits to most people. And it certainly cannot support the very recent idea of everyone retiring autonomously.

Whether you want the fed.gov to do those things or not isn't relevant. The program, by design, cannot support what it is being called on to do. You may need to move a few yards of dirt, but your '83 Camry isn't going to be up to the task no matter how much you want it to be.

I know it was not intended to be a retirement plan, but it evolved into a lot more then what the original intent was. Yes, there are people getting SSD benefits who shouldn't be, I can't argue that.

I'm also not fan of *expletive deleted*it on people either, some people no matter how hard they try will never be able to build a retirement saving plan or let alone afford medical care when they are too old to work.

Also one more thing, I've paid in over $60k (plus my employers share too) into SS since I was 16 and dammit I want some of that back when I retire.
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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2013, 04:41:43 PM »
I know it was not intended to be a retirement plan, but it evolved into a lot more then what the original intent was. Yes, there are people getting SSD benefits who shouldn't be, I can't argue that.

I'm also not fan of *expletive deleted* on people either, some people no matter how hard they try will never be able to build a retirement saving plan or let alone afford medical care when they are too old to work.

Also one more thing, I've paid in over $60k (plus my employers share too) into SS since I was 16 and dammit I want some of that back when I retire.

I spent years trying to build a business, that in theory would have eventually been my retirement plan.  Pretty hard to save and invest at the same time.  Then I had to take a job that nearly killed me and spent years recovering both physically and financially.  Wasn't until about a dozen years ago that we started to be secure enough to start to save beyond just "rainy day" fund.  :(
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2013, 04:45:16 PM »

Also one more thing, I've paid in over $60k (plus my employers share too) into SS since I was 16 and dammit I want some of that back when I retire.

Too bad that Ida May Fuller and all her friends never paid for anyone. 
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Balog

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2013, 04:48:22 PM »
The thing is, the payments going out have expanded but the basic underlying system has not. You can keep piling crap into that Camry, but eventually it'll break down.

Some people will always be poor. Having the fed.gov take money for SS etc just increases that number, and prevents them from being self sufficient or even able to care for their friend's and family. But no matter what scheme you try, some people will always die broke and alone. Nothing we can do to stop that. And the best, most efficient way to address it is to get the feds the hell out of it, and let local commnities deal with it as they always have.

What you want and what you can get are different things. It sucks that the feds have stolen and squandered all that money from you and me and everyone else working to make a living. But trying to prop up a fundamentally broken system on the basis of "I gots ta get mine" doesn't work. Math and demographics don't care if you're entitled to get money back, any more than they care about promises politicians made to get elected. The "Greatest Generation" massively expanded the welfare state, then had huge amounts of kids that they raised to selfish greedy entitled little bastards who dramatically reduced their birthrate and even further expanded the welfare state. A very small cadre of young people is going to have an enormous, soul crushing burden stuck on them by a giant cadre who voted themselves unrealistic benefits. It can't go on. Not from a moral point, but it logistically can't continue. Other people's money is running out.
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Tallpine

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2013, 04:54:48 PM »
I agree the anti-social insecurity system has to go.

But you can't blame those who have paid in for wanting to get back while it lasts.

I still remember trying to cough up 15% of the miserably small amount of profit that we were trying to live on :(
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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2013, 05:35:02 PM »
I agree the anti-social insecurity system has to go.

But you can't blame those who have paid in for wanting to get back while it lasts.

Exactly. We seem to have this debate / argument at least once a year. It all comes down to enlightened self-interest.

Young people don't want to pay in because they see the futility of doing so and the waste of their money. You can't blame them for wanting to see the system disappear ASAP.

Older people, who have paid into it all their lives at gunpoint, want to at least try and get back some of the money they were forced to put into it before the system fails. You can't blame them for that either.

The system is bound to fail at some point and a lot of people are going to get screwed, one way or the other, before it does. Who gets screwed the most depends on when it fails. I say this as likely one of the people who will be most totally boned. The system right now, is predicted to become insolvent right around the time I would be eligible to try and get back a little bit of the six figures I've put into it over my adult working life. I would have loved to have had that money in my own investment accounts over that time - I would have made at least triple what SSI made off my money.

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brimic

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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2013, 05:52:51 PM »
SSI is a red herring.

We can all bitch about how its a pyramid scheme, how its socialism, how it forces people to pay for their elders against their will...
its a drop in the bucket compared to the national debt.
At some point in time, the entire earnings of our children or grandchildren are going to have to be 'nationalized' in order to just pay the interest on this debt.

Its too late to ever pay down the debt- it was too late after the first dollar was borrowed from the Fed- simply because another dollar had to be created by the Fed to pay the interest on the first dollar borrowed.
Crash and burn. I want to see this slow moving tyranny that we've been saddle with since 1914 destroyed, wiped out, burned, and buried.
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Re: GOP: Losers!
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2013, 02:06:38 PM »
And we've just started another Ponzi scheme with Obamacare, where once again the young will be subsidizing the elderly and infirm.   Apparently, we do not learn.  P.T. Barnum was all wet when he said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

There are thousands born every minute.


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