Author Topic: Venezuela, Again, Still  (Read 7798 times)

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Venezuela, Again, Still
« on: April 19, 2017, 10:38:15 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil-tankers-insight-idUSKBN17K0CE

Venezuelan oil tankers have to be delayed for up to 10 days while they are cleaned of the leaking crude in Venezuela's ports. Which delay, of course, the state-owned company cannot afford.

And, of course, here's the relevant statement buried in the story:

Quote
When oil prices were high, crude and fuel exports almost entirely financed an elaborate system of government price controls and social subsidies that maintained the popularity of late President Hugo Chavez, the socialist firebrand.

He used the oil profits to pay for his "socialist utopia" and let the infrastructure to support oil drilling and delivery collapse.

Now, when the inevitable downturn has happened (that Chavez missed by going to hell before it occurred), there is no money to fix the crumbling infrastructure, which causes the country to see not only dropping prices, but dropping exports because they can't deliver what they once did.

Hey, what's that? It's the gods of the copybook headings returning to Venezuela? Shocking.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,776
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 11:40:04 AM »
Communism.....Is there anything it can't drag down?
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,894
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 11:53:34 AM »
Communism.....Is there anything it can't drag down?

Gee, I'm glad we're starting to call it what it is again.

I'm tired of hearing carefully polished glossy words for it.




WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,776
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 12:17:01 PM »
Gee, I'm glad we're starting to call it what it is again.

I'm tired of hearing carefully polished glossy words for it.





Communism probably was a glossy word itself back in the Pre-Stalin days.  After millions of dead people, it picked up some bad associations. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,894
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 12:39:53 PM »
^ Good point, but I'm talkin' post-McCarthy era.  His excesses made pointing out Communism for what it was "paranoia."

I'm no fan of what HUAC* did, but the original investigations into how deeply actual Communists had penetrated our culture would have been helpful had it gone in a less hysterical direction.

Hey, you want to be a Communist, that's okay with me if you're out in the open about it, but to "penetrate" our government and other institutions (like our entertainment industry, f'r instance) in a clandestine manner for subversive purposes is not, at least in my view.  I don't even mind having the Communist Party on the ballot, if clearly labeled as such and their platform/agenda is truly open for public analysis.**

After all, you only have to be sneaky if you know your ultimate goals would not be acceptable to the population at large and you have to work "under the table."

I know my position is deplorable, but you sure as hell can't call it Fascist.

Terry, 230RN

* House Unamerican Activities Committee

** And if their "hangers-on" and "fellow travelers" are also fully aware of the totalitarian implications of their stance.  But they aren't.  Which is why they were characterized as... you guessed it... "useful idiots."

NOTE:  Note the "sub" in "subversive."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subversive#Etymology
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 12:20:27 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 12:41:30 PM »

Unfortunately the situation was set years ago by Chavez outspending oil revenue while not keeping up on infrastructure maintenance.

Before anyone gets too smug, remember that the US is outspending it's revenue at Banana Republic pace while vastly underspending on infrastructure maintenance. We admittedly have C's across the board rather than F's, but still. Oddly enough, we're vastly overspending on social programs and corrupt military programs.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,643
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 12:58:03 PM »
. . . Oddly enough, we're vastly overspending on social programs and corrupt military programs.
LBJ's "Great Society" spending total is fairly close to our total national debt - since 2012, welfare spending (which does NOT include Social Security payments!) had exceeded $1,000,000,000,000.00 annually.

This is considerably more than the DoD budget . . . which I agree is rife with corruption and pork.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 05:10:16 PM »
LBJ's "Great Society" spending total is fairly close to our total national debt - since 2012, welfare spending (which does NOT include Social Security payments!) had exceeded $1,000,000,000,000.00 annually.

This is considerably more than the DoD budget . . . which I agree is rife with corruption and pork.

I don't disagree. I know the DoD budget is a punching bag. But large parts of that criticism is warranted.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,394
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 07:47:49 AM »
"and let the infrastructure to support oil drilling and delivery collapse."

WRONG!

The gringo capitalist rapists of the people sprayed poison on the magical money trees and destroyed the perpetual harvest of FREE *expletive deleted*it! It was nothing short of an act of war against the peace loving people of Venezuela!


Or, that's what Nicholas Maduro would have us believe while he and the rest of the Chavez cadre siphon off a large portion of the free *expletive deleted*it tree money and send it overseas into their personal accounts.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,394
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 07:55:14 AM »
Oops, looks like Maduro has decided to pluck more fruit from the magical money tree!

I wonder how they expect to keep manufacturing cars when GM cancels all of the supplier contracts they had to provide stuff to that facility? Ah, who cares... FREEEEEEE SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2017/04/20/general-motors-auto-plant-in-venezuela-seized-by-government-gm-decries-illegality

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,903
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 08:40:07 AM »
Oops, looks like Maduro has decided to pluck more fruit from the magical money tree!

I wonder how they expect to keep manufacturing cars when GM cancels all of the supplier contracts they had to provide stuff to that facility? Ah, who cares... FREEEEEEE SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2017/04/20/general-motors-auto-plant-in-venezuela-seized-by-government-gm-decries-illegality



Makes you wonder what it would take to rig a plant to burn to the ground.  Some companies are already writing of their Venezualian investments.  Might as well burn it down on the way out.....

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,078
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 09:14:40 AM »
I was just about to post about GM. I was genuinely surprised that they still had a plant in Venezuela. I thought all the smart big US money pulled out after Chavez confiscated 100s of millions in oil production infrastructure.

Any other big US corporation still have a Venezuelan presence?
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2017, 09:25:38 AM »
Well it is government motors after all...

If it were my car company, I would have closed it down for a day for a 'holiday' and ordered management to shred and purge all important materials, then slag all of the machine tools with thermite right before putting them all on a bus to the airport for exfil.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2017, 09:32:25 AM »
Well it is government motors after all...

If it were my car company, I would have closed it down for a day for a 'holiday' and ordered management to shred and purge all important materials, then slag all of the machine tools with thermite right before putting them all on a bus to the airport for exfil.

Too flashy. Grabby Venezuelan government would probably arrest them as "saboteurs" before they got off the ground.

Keep your people in mind and subtly sabotage the equipment.

Or not at all. It's not like competent people will be operating them and the equipment will suffer the same fate as the oil infrastructure in short order.

Pull all expertise from the country. That's a far more effective means of ensuring their demise.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,078
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 09:34:43 AM »
Well it is government motors after all...

I was actually wondering if there was possibly a "suggestion" for them to stay there given the past administration's milquetoast approach to Venezuela.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2017, 12:10:38 PM »
Too flashy. Grabby Venezuelan government would probably arrest them as "saboteurs" before they got off the ground.

Keep your people in mind and subtly sabotage the equipment.

Or not at all. It's not like competent people will be operating them and the equipment will suffer the same fate as the oil infrastructure in short order.

Pull all expertise from the country. That's a far more effective means of ensuring their demise.

True- entropy + incompetence will do the same thing over time
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,903
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2017, 02:38:32 PM »
True- entropy + incompetence will do the same thing over time

Sometimes flashy makes the point more satisfyingly however.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2017, 07:17:51 PM »
Wyatt's Torch... just sayin'
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2017, 09:36:07 PM »
Wyatt's Torch... just sayin'

Who is Amy Schumer?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,192
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2017, 09:47:28 PM »
Who is Amy Schumer?

A fat no talent hack of a failed comedian. And oh yeah, I think some TV chick is named that too. >:D
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 10:31:56 PM »
Reference missed.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,452
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2017, 11:15:11 PM »
Outside joke.  Outside as in outhouse.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Jim147

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,596
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Venezuela, Again, Still
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2017, 05:29:31 PM »
I wonder how they expect to keep manufacturing cars when GM cancels all of the supplier contracts they had to provide stuff to that facility?

How much of the automated equipment is dependent on code stored on GM servers outside Venezuela?

If they were smart, everything more networkable than a stapler could be rendered useless from anywhere in the world.