Author Topic: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq  (Read 2570 times)

Balog

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First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« on: December 18, 2014, 05:46:13 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878897/American-troops-battle-ISIS-time-attempted-attack-militants-Iraqi-base.html

I hope all of the "End this unjust war!" hippies who voted for Obama are feeling good about themselves.
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Scout26

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 06:12:05 PM »



(I know this first appeared when Obama did his Libyian incursion, but I thinks it also goes here.  Given that the only noise from the Anti-War Left has been crickets.)
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Firethorn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 11:50:06 PM »
(I know this first appeared when Obama did his Libyian incursion, but I thinks it also goes here.  Given that the only noise from the Anti-War Left has been crickets.)

Well, not to be a rat bastard, but would you want to protest against going to war against a group that's best known for cutting the heads off of reporters and holding women not of their religious sect as sex slaves?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 01:50:30 AM by Firethorn »

vaskidmark

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 12:22:32 AM »
Well, not to be a rat bastard, but would you want to protest against going to war with a group that's best known for cutting the heads off of reporters and holding women not of their religious sect as sex slaves?

I know you probably did not mean it that way, but I see no problem whatsoever with liberal hippies going to war alongside those fellas you described.

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Firethorn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 01:53:50 AM »
I know you probably did not mean it that way, but I see no problem whatsoever with liberal hippies going to war alongside those fellas you described.

I do.  I don't want those bastards getting any help.  Liberal hippies are annoying, but they're our liberal hippies, you know? 

Yes, that was somewhere between a typo left in from my changing how I was phrasing the sentence even as I was typing it and just plain approaching it from a different context.  I went 'ack' myself when I reread it after some time to divorce myself from the writing.  Changed.

Scout26

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 03:32:39 AM »
Well, not to be a rat bastard, but would you want to protest against going to war against a group that's best known for cutting the heads off of reporters and holding women not of their religious sect as sex slaves?

They had no problem protesting when the guy we were going to war against had used poison gas on his own citizens, not to mention invading 3* out of 6 neighbors.  You tell me which is worse.  Sawing heads off, or attempting to enslave your neighbors and then using Nerve gas (IIRC what was used although there were reports of others being used in the Iran -Iraq war).




* He did invade Saudi Arabia after the air war started.  Only Syria, Jordan and Turkey got a pass.

P.S.  Do I even need to mention the actual torture and murder(s) that was conducted by Hussein's regime?
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 04:07:28 AM »
They had no problem protesting when the guy we were going to war against had used poison gas on his own citizens, not to mention invading 3* out of 6 neighbors.  You tell me which is worse.  Sawing heads off, or attempting to enslave your neighbors and then using Nerve gas (IIRC what was used although there were reports of others being used in the Iran -Iraq war).




* He did invade Saudi Arabia after the air war started.  Only Syria, Jordan and Turkey got a pass.

P.S.  Do I even need to mention the actual torture and murder(s) that was conducted by Hussein's regime?


But, but....Bush lied....... [barf]

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agricola

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 06:36:17 PM »
But, but....Bush lied....... [barf]

Bush did lie, though.  So did Blair.  Iraq was a disaster, largely of their making.
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JN01

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 07:06:07 PM »
QUAGMIRE!!!!! QUAGMIRE!!!!!  What's the exit strategy?!!!!


RoadKingLarry

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 07:30:36 PM »
Bush did lie, though.  So did Blair.  Iraq was a disaster, largely of their making.

He's a politician, "The Lie" is their stock in trade. Even Saddam lied, about the status of his WMDs.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2014, 07:52:03 PM »
He's a politician, "The Lie" is their stock in trade. Even Saddam lied, about the status of his WMDs.

Bet he wished he had't before his ending


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TommyGunn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2014, 08:01:28 PM »
Bush did lie, though.  So did Blair.  Iraq was a disaster, largely of their making.

Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied .....

Repeat it like a mantra and all sheeple will believe it.

Bush did not lie.
"A lie is a statement that is made that is KNOWN to be false at the time it was made."

We can all scream about there being no WMDs found in Iraq.  We know Sadam had them because he had used them on the Kurds.
Bush believed there was an active program, we forget but so did Clinton, and as well the Germans and other countries' intel services thought so.

B-b-b-b-but Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied .....

Yea Iraq was a disaster.....and let's not forget Obama had a role in that, too.
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agricola

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2014, 08:39:02 PM »
Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied .....

Repeat it like a mantra and all sheeple will believe it.

Bush did not lie.
"A lie is a statement that is made that is KNOWN to be false at the time it was made."

We can all scream about there being no WMDs found in Iraq.  We know Sadam had them because he had used them on the Kurds.
Bush believed there was an active program, we forget but so did Clinton, and as well the Germans and other countries' intel services thought so.

B-b-b-b-but Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied Bush lied .....

Yea Iraq was a disaster.....and let's not forget Obama had a role in that, too.

Bush demonstrably lied - he certified to Congress that Iraq posted a "continuing threat to the national security of the United States", whilst his administration put about, knew and planned for how easy it (the invasion) would be. 
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TommyGunn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2014, 12:02:13 AM »
Bush demonstrably lied - he certified to Congress that Iraq posted a "continuing threat to the national security of the United States", whilst his administration put about, knew and planned for how easy it (the invasion) would be. 

Yeah, BECAUSE HE BELIEVED IT WAS TRUE AT THE TIME!    
Good grief.
I do not grant to you, or to anyone on this forum, the right to your own individual definition of what a "lie" is.  If you want to disagree with me, fine.   This topic has been beaten to death over the past decade.
Everyone who has been paying the scantest attention knows the search for WMDs in Iraq was a bust.
If anyone is interested (which I highly doubt) I'll be happy to explain what I believe happened, and why I believe what I do about it.
But I am not going to further engage in any childish jackassery about Bush lying.  NO ONE has ever been able to demonstrate to me that Bush knew that there were no WMDs or a program for making them in Iraq. 
Bush, and many others, were fooled by misinformation -- or are you accusing ALL of the people, agencies and countries who supported the intelligence also lied?


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Firethorn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2014, 12:50:29 AM »
TommyGunn - I'd also add that there's a world of difference between 'threat to national security' and 'hard to invade'. 

Scout26

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2014, 03:37:46 AM »
Uhhh, The actual Invasion was pretty easy.  Crossed the border on 20 March, Baghdad falls 9 April.   Beating the previous record of Belgium to Paris, set by the Germans in 1940, by 3 weeks.   :P



Quote
After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.‑led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted.

Jesus, even the *expletive deleted*ing New York Times says "Oh, hey look.  Ummmm there were WMD's there after all."

http://op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/who-was-right-about-w-m-d-s-in-iraq/

The simple fact he is still had them whether or not he was making new ones was irrelevant.  He already had the ones he was supposed to destroyed after GW1.

And the 17 UN resolution violations mean nothing either....



 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:





Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

agricola

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2014, 05:55:35 AM »
Yeah, BECAUSE HE BELIEVED IT WAS TRUE AT THE TIME!    
Good grief.
I do not grant to you, or to anyone on this forum, the right to your own individual definition of what a "lie" is.  If you want to disagree with me, fine.   This topic has been beaten to death over the past decade.
Everyone who has been paying the scantest attention knows the search for WMDs in Iraq was a bust.
If anyone is interested (which I highly doubt) I'll be happy to explain what I believe happened, and why I believe what I do about it.
But I am not going to further engage in any childish jackassery about Bush lying.  NO ONE has ever been able to demonstrate to me that Bush knew that there were no WMDs or a program for making them in Iraq. 
Bush, and many others, were fooled by misinformation -- or are you accusing ALL of the people, agencies and countries who supported the intelligence also lied?

I am not using my own definition of what a lie is, I was using yours.   

One would have thought that the evidence revealed by the investigations into what went on before the invasion (both in the UK and the US), which showed how the end goal was decided long before the "evidence" was gathered to support it (be it WMDs, his record of torturing his own people, the claimed links to al-Qaeda, the dossiers, the entirely spurious claims that the Iraqi military was targetting the US / UK / whoever etc) might have suggested to anyone with an open mind that, at best, Bush and Blair had not been entirely honest. 

What is more, we now know that Blair demonstrably lied on several occasions to the House of Commons, the media and even to his own Cabinet - and its hard to see the monkey fibbing over an issue when the organ grinder remained honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jan/29/tony-blair-chilcot-iraq-inquiry


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Chester32141

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2014, 09:04:03 AM »
Quote
The WikiLeaks de facto declassification of privileged material makes it case closed: Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction — and intended to restart his program once the heat was off.

Quote
“By late 2003, even the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction(emphasis added). … Chemical weapons, especially, did not vanish from the Iraqi battlefield. Remnants of Saddam’s toxic arsenal, largely destroyed after the Gulf War, remained. Jihadists, insurgents and foreign (possibly Iranian) agitators turned to these stockpiles during the Iraq conflict — and may have brewed up their own deadly agents.”

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/06/09/repost-the-2010-wikileaks-vindication-of-george-w-bush-the-sunlight-which-blinds-the-moonbats/
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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2014, 11:57:44 AM »
Dumb question, but what about the 500 metric tons of yellow cake uranium shipped out of Iraq in 2007? What was that? It took 140 trucks and 34 flights to get it to Canada. Iraq had no nuclear reactors.

Ron

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2014, 12:52:36 PM »
Dumb question, but what about the 500 metric tons of yellow cake uranium shipped out of Iraq in 2007? What was that? It took 140 trucks and 34 flights to get it to Canada. Iraq had no nuclear reactors.

IIRC that was from the nuclear facility that the Israelis bombed and had already been cataloged by the inspectors pre invasion. 
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TommyGunn

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2014, 12:56:49 PM »
I am not using my own definition of what a lie is, I was using yours.    

One would have thought that the evidence revealed by the investigations into what went on before the invasion (both in the UK and the US), which showed how the end goal was decided long before the "evidence" was gathered to support it (be it WMDs, his record of torturing his own people, the claimed links to al-Qaeda, the dossiers, the entirely spurious claims that the Iraqi military was targetting the US / UK / whoever etc) might have suggested to anyone with an open mind that, at best, Bush and Blair had not been entirely honest. 

What is more, we now know that Blair demonstrably lied on several occasions to the House of Commons, the media and even to his own Cabinet - and its hard to see the monkey fibbing over an issue when the organ grinder remained honest.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jan/29/tony-blair-chilcot-iraq-inquiry

No, you were not using my definition.  I do not own any defintition, I use what is a common meaning of the word "lie."
  And there were other countries aside from England which believed there were WMDs as well.
Quote
  . ..at best, Bush and Blair had not been entirely honest.

"entirely"   Geeesh.  What weasel words.   Either Bushed expressed what he honestly believed true at the time or a LOT of people lied -- forget about Blair, he's just one other person.  

Dumb question, but what about the 500 metric tons of yellow cake uranium shipped out of Iraq in 2007? What was that? It took 140 trucks and 34 flights to get it to Canada. Iraq had no nuclear reactors.
Good question.    Saddam did have an ambition for nukes.   There used to be a news story around about caravans of trucks leaving Iraq for Syria and other places .... wonder what was in those vehicles?  
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roo_ster

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Re: First battle between US ground troops and ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2014, 02:12:46 AM »
Saddam did his best to suggest he still had WMDs after GW1 and used them in the past vs the Kurds and Iranians, IIRC.  The evidence was pretty convincing to most involved, to the point that allied intel agencies believed he had them.  Unless GWB had information not yet uncovered, it is more plausible that he believed Saddam had WMD than GWD made it up and lied about the issue.  When WMDs were not found immediately afterwards, GWB made a mistake in conceding the point as later were found both the capacity to restart WMD production and existing stockpiles.

Saddam was a credible threat to Jordan, Kuwait, Syria, and maybe the Saudis.  He could not touch the USA save by terrorism and the Iranians were too strong for him to take on after GW1.  I am sure the usual neo-neo-con(1) folks could argue that this was a threat to America.  A bit of a stretch.



(1) As opposed to the old neo-cons of course being the Jewish Trotskyites who were born again anti-commie and pro-Israel.  The Neo-neo-cons being those who came along later and seem to want to invade the world with our troops while inviting the world to replace those descended from America's founding culture and population.
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