The law of Unintended Consequences Strikes again!

[makattak]

Or, in this case, just stupid people who can't think things through:

http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/childcare-costs-skyrocket-after-minimum-wage-hike-passes/42473272

Perry spoke with one parent who voted in favor of the initiative not realizing that it would affect child care.

Of course she did. Because all that mattered to the voters was it made them feel good. The only people affected were those nasty people who only pay minimum wage, right?

Oh, SURPRISE. You're one of those nasty people.

[brimic]

I was mansplaining this to some woman on facebook a few weeks back who claimed that the minimum wage needs to be raised so she can afford daycare.  She didn't like the idea I presented to her that higher minimum wages would raise the costs of daycare significantly, and she said that government 'should do something about that.'    

[Scout26]

Too bad no one saw this coming and warned people about it....

[tokugawa]

I second scouts opinion.
 Can't wait to see what the unanticipated consequences are for I-1491 in WA. 

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/10/a-resounding-vote-against-due-process-an

[BobR]

I second scouts opinion.
 Can't wait to see what the unanticipated consequences are for I-1491 in WA. 

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/10/a-resounding-vote-against-due-process-an

This will make the second anti-gun initiative in a row where the NRA was a no show in WA state. I saw a few commercials pushing for 1491, didn't see a single one against. :(

bob

[tokugawa]

This will make the second anti-gun initiative in a row where the NRA was a no show in WA state. I saw a few commercials pushing for 1491, didn't see a single one against. :(

bob

They probably figured it was a waste of money- gotta figure, when 70% of king county is willing to give up their rights to a faceless accusation, and Bloomberg is fronting it with an essentially bottomless pool of money, that other winnable fights take precedence. 

 It will be interesting when the cops start showing up unannounced to grab peoples guns, based on false accusations. It will be so easy, what public official can take the chance someone is lying - it is the old saw, it is way easier to say "no" than yes- there is no downside risk to saying "no".
 IMO this will be like "swatting" x 10.

 The only reason this passed is the initiative process- any debate on the subject in the legislature would have exposed the very serious issues with it. And the district senators would have stopped it. no one conceived of the initiative process as being made to order for  special interest big money legislative work arounds until recently- I expect the next election to have more antigun initiatives, there is no reason they will not keep following up with more, probably "safe storage", mag capacity and "assault weapon" issues.  There is no way to beat King County voter numbers.
 I give WA state no more than five years before the gun laws approximate California's.

 The equivalent to WA I 594 (background checks, AKA registration) passed in Nevada, 15 out of 16 counties opposed, with a 1% margin.  That is damned near the definition of Tyranny of the Majority.  Bloomberg money again.

[Hawkmoon]

Can't wait to see what the unanticipated consequences are for I-1491 in WA. 

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/10/a-resounding-vote-against-due-process-an

I haven't read it but I've been told by pro-2A friends in CT that CT passed a similar law earlier this year (or maybe it was last year).

I'm a widower. I still miss my wife and I have no desire to even think about dating again but, if I were so inclined, a law such as this would probably make me change my mind right quick.

[sumpnz]

I-1491 makes me very glad my sister and her anti-gun hysteria moved to Denver earlier this year.  I could easily see her trying to have my guns taken away through abusing this process.  Not right away, but when she thought it was opportune.  Like when there was some dispute over an inheritance or some other money related matter.

[BobR]

They probably figured it was a waste of money- gotta figure, when 70% of king county is willing to give up their rights to a faceless accusation, and Bloomberg is fronting it with an essentially bottomless pool of money, that other winnable fights take precedence.  <snip>

 The equivalent to WA I 594 (background checks, AKA registration) passed in Nevada, 15 out of 16 counties opposed, with a 1% margin.  That is damned near the definition of Tyranny of the Majority.  Bloomberg money again.

I would almost buy that except when 594 passed the NRA was a no show and that was the ONLY anti-gun initiative in the nation that election day. I am not a fan of the NRA any more but it is still the best we have for fighting for our rights.

bob

[Scout26]

This will make the second anti-gun initiative in a row where the NRA was a no show in WA state. I saw a few commercials pushing for 1491, didn't see a single one against. :(

bob

*sigh*   Where was your state association and what were they doing? 

The "N" in NRA stands for "National" as in they fight on the National or Federal Level.   Here in Illinois we have the Illinois State Rifle Association (and Illinois Carry) which fight for us on the State Level.  The NRA does have a very, very, part time lobbyist here (he also represents the Operating Engineers Union in Springfield, when he's not driving a Bulldozer), but unless it's a national ad buy, you won't see NRA ads or commercials anywhere in Illinois.  ISRA and IC are the major water carriers here.

[K Frame]

"She didn't like the idea I presented to her that higher minimum wages would raise the costs of daycare significantly, and she said that government 'should do something about that.'"

Paging the sterilization squad, please report to...

[K Frame]

I would almost buy that except when 594 passed the NRA was a no show and that was the ONLY anti-gun initiative in the nation that election day. I am not a fan of the NRA any more but it is still the best we have for fighting for our rights.

bob

So, what did YOU do to fight for your gun rights?

[MechAg94]

So, what did YOU do to fight for your gun rights?

That is the question I hear asked to people from these states complaining about the NRA.  Most of them don't even contribute money to the NRA (or anyone else) to fight this stuff.  Often, many gun owners voted for those initiatives.  It isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular.  It is just a statement about the attitude of gun owners in that state. 

[BobR]

So, what did YOU do to fight for your gun rights?

I attended several rallies at the state capitol, took other people with me who would not have made it otherwise because of the drive, I write letters, make phone calls, was one of a core group of people in Spokane who was at the leading edge of open carry back when we would get stopped by the police every time, helped draft the local police training bulletin on open carry encounters and a few other things. I know about 3 other people who have done the same or more locally. I also spent about 2 years fighting the local sports arena (Public Utilities District) about open carry in the facility IAW state law. The SAF finally recommended we do not go any further because there was about a 30% chance of making bad law. So we stopped the fight, for now.

So yes, I do get out and fight. We were trying to fight Bloomberg with a "grassroots campaign". Grassroots and no money is fairly synonymous, we really had no chance against Bloomberg and his money without help from "National".

Bloomberg and his groups have pretty much given up on national reform and are now going to the states with initiatives to further their agenda at the state level. It has worked out for them in WA so far. I am afraid they will start picking off the states one at a time, it may take them a while but the end result, erosion of gun rights nationally, will be the same.

http://www.thegunmag.com/wa-gun-groups-draw-line-in-sand-with-gun-rights-campaign-launch/


bob

[Hawkmoon]

Bloomberg and his groups have pretty much given up on national reform and are now going to the states with initiatives to further their agenda at the state level. It has worked out for them in WA so far. I am afraid they will start picking off the states one at a time, it may take them a while but the end result, erosion of gun rights nationally, will be the same.

IIRC, Bloomberg had an anti-gin ballot initiative in Maine during this election, too. Does anyone know how that turned out? I was disappointed and surprised to see that Maine was solidly blue. 60 years ago I used to spend summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine. I can see Portland and south being blue due to the "North Boston" syndrome, but I really expected that the rest of the state would be solidly red.

[tokugawa]

IIRC, Bloomberg had an anti-gin ballot initiative in Maine during this election, too. Does anyone know how that turned out? I was disappointed and surprised to see that Maine was solidly blue. 60 years ago I used to spend summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine. I can see Portland and south being blue due to the "North Boston" syndrome, but I really expected that the rest of the state would be solidly red.

 They beat the proposal, just barely. Maine does have a conservative governor, LePage .

 The problem with the initiative process is that it eliminates the normal balancing of the popular vote, and the Senate. It becomes strictly a popular vote with a simple majority. Added to this, there is little info or debate of the pros and cons-most voters get any info from either the paid ads , the unpaid ads (media) or the one page blurb in the voters pamphlet. With urban areas overwhelmingly left, it becomes a shoe-in.

 I think the way to beat this sort of thing is to take a page from Alinski  and protest the local  leaders of the "everytown" organization. Freeze it, and make it personal. 

[TechMan]

IIRC, Bloomberg had an anti-gin ballot initiative in Maine during this election, too. Does anyone know how that turned out? I was disappointed and surprised to see that Maine was solidly blue. 60 years ago I used to spend summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine. I can see Portland and south being blue due to the "North Boston" syndrome, but I really expected that the rest of the state would be solidly red.

Here is how Maine voted in the election: http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/maine/  Again blue around population centers.

The expanded background checks initiative failed.  http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/ballot-measures
Expand Gun Background Checks
Requires background checks before gun sales and between unlicensed gun dealers.
100% Reporting
Winner No   
52.0%   
785,402
Yes   
48.0%   
724,312

[Perd Hapley]

IIRC, Bloomberg had an anti-gin ballot initiative in Maine during this election, too. Does anyone know how that turned out?

I'm pretty sure that failed. I believe I just read that on the NRA's web site, yesterday.

[Scout26]

Does WA have a state firearm organization like the ISRA.  (Ahhhhh, yes they do.  http://www.wsrpa.net/wsrpa/index.php)   Here in Illinois we are able to beat back most anti-2A legislation.  One thing that really helps is the ISRA has a decent membership (and does piggie-back off the NRA's list), so that when when anti-2A bills are "moving" they send out an e-mail or three and we "melt the phones", inundate them with e-mails, and flood the system with appearance notices.

I remember one Anti-2A representative saying that he hates when legislation is coming up for a hearing or a vote.  He told the ISRA lobbyist "Please make it stop"  referring to the phone calls urging him to vote pro-2A, as his admin assistant (one for every two reps) had done nothing but answer the phone for 3 days.

While there is few of them and more of us, they have more resources $$$, so we have to work harder and smarter to stop them.

[freakazoid]

IIRC, Bloomberg had an anti-gin ballot initiative in Maine during this election, too. Does anyone know how that turned out? I was disappointed and surprised to see that Maine was solidly blue. 60 years ago I used to spend summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine. I can see Portland and south being blue due to the "North Boston" syndrome, but I really expected that the rest of the state would be solidly red.

But I love gin. 

[MechAg94]

The NRA did put a lot of resources into backing Trump so I don't know how much they had left for state initiatives.  I heard how much money they gave to fight the Cali initiative and it wasn't much compared to what Bloomberg had given.  I think they had the right priority though. 

[tokugawa]

Does WA have a state firearm organization like the ISRA.  (Ahhhhh, yes they do.  http://www.wsrpa.net/wsrpa/index.php)   Here in Illinois we are able to beat back most anti-2A legislation.  One thing that really helps is the ISRA has a decent membership (and does piggie-back off the NRA's list), so that when when anti-2A bills are "moving" they send out an e-mail or three and we "melt the phones", inundate them with e-mails, and flood the system with appearance notices.

I remember one Anti-2A representative saying that he hates when legislation is coming up for a hearing or a vote.  He told the ISRA lobbyist "Please make it stop"  referring to the phone calls urging him to vote pro-2A, as his admin assistant (one for every two reps) had done nothing but answer the phone for 3 days.

While there is few of them and more of us, they have more resources $$$, so we have to work harder and smarter to stop them.

 The problem is, the new laws are not coming from the legislature. there IS no debate, no modifying the bill, no voting in either house.  They are drafted by Bloomberg inc, put in front of the public with a simple majority vote, and backed by a leftist deluge of ad money.
 All the traditional methods of opposing them are null.