Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on January 25, 2012, 09:45:03 AM
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This is getting old.
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/
"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."
Compare & contrast:
"Brock Estep, 31, of Knoxville, alleged that two men in a Toyota Avalon attempted to cut him off in traffic as they pulled out of the Waffle House parking lot at the corner of Weisgarber Road and Papermill Drive on Dec. 15."
"The officers' names have not been released."
"We determined they acted reasonably," Gill said.
Maybe it was mutual hostility, maybe they met some threshold of perceived danger. Thing is, anyone here expect to not have to spend big bucks defending such actions, were they to pull guns on an off-duty cop?
As instapundit writes, "Laws are for the little people."
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/135931/
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In terms of public opinion / public perception, the effect of one isolated incident is trivial . . . but when people become aware of many such incidents of LEOs behaving badly, the cumulative effects become significant. In some places, even regular, normally law abiding citizens are starting to regard the police as adversaries.
Which is sad . . . =(
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There was one here in the DC area recently regarding a motorcyclist and an off duty MD cop. The video was awful. Friggin jerks.
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It makes sense from an authoritarian POV. In order for Police to be able to control the population through force, there has to be some form of distinct separation between them and the general population. If police were treated under the same law as the rest of the citizenry, they would be very cautious at using violence to subdue and keep people in check. This would make them less effective as tools of government control over the populace. It is therefore in the best interest of those who govern us that the police remain relatively unaccountable for aggression against "civilians". They are more likely to enforce government's will if they are not held responsible for any "damages" they cause.
On a side note, NEVER exit your vehicle in a road-rage incident to tell the other driver "what is what".
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I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.
I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."
In fact, in a recent conversation with one of my cop friends, he identified the moment he's asked to confiscate weapons from people a'la New Orleans will be the moment he takes off the uniform
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I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.
I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."
In fact, in a recent conversation with one of my cop friends, he identified the moment he's asked to confiscate weapons from people a'la New Orleans will be the moment he takes off the uniform
Most I know are like that, but a few are going to follow orders, whatever they may be.
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As a side note... When I was a drill sergeant, my troops EVERY cycle got a long block of instruction on where their loyalties should lie (i.e. the constitution) and some Situational brainstorming regarding what they should do if they're ever ordered to do unconstitutional things.
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I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.
I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."
Me too, mostly...
The cops I know personally or that are in my family are the former type.
I have a feeling that the JBT-types mainly keep to their own JBT-cliques.
I have had experience with some of these types a decade or so ago when I was in a billiards league. There were about 20 taverns in the league, we played a couple of times a week with all different kinds of people in different environments- outlaw bikers, punk rockers, Western bars, upper middle class types, emo/goths, old farts, and everyone got along really well. There was a 'cop bar' in the league that noone like to play at- the clientele there were a bunch of meatheads- rude, obnoxious, tried to intimidate everyone who came into the place, just all around high speed-low drag jackoffs.
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It makes sense from an authoritarian POV. In order for Police to be able to control the population through force, there has to be some form of distinct separation between them and the general population. If police were treated under the same law as the rest of the citizenry, they would be very cautious at using violence to subdue and keep people in check. This would make them less effective as tools of government control over the populace. It is therefore in the best interest of those who govern us that the police remain relatively unaccountable for aggression against "civilians". They are more likely to enforce government's will if they are not held responsible for any "damages" they cause.
On a side note, NEVER exit your vehicle in a road-rage incident to tell the other driver "what is what".
That is so over the top that I can't tell if it is sarcasm or not. Just to start, only in a police state do the police control the population through force. Big difference between using force to subdue an individual and using force as a policy on an entire population.
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This is getting old.
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/
"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."
They'll probably celebrate by going out and shooting someone's dog (it's OK, it wasn't a police dog)
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Just to start, only in a police state do the police control the population through force.
So where exactly do you think we are headed?
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There was one here in the DC area recently regarding a motorcyclist and an off duty MD cop. The video was awful. Friggin jerks.
yea the video was awful. and awful edited. if the doofus on the bike hadn't tried that hack job editing he likely woulda walked with an 80 dollar ticket . he beat the wiretap charge but hes still got some sweet traffic charges he richly deserved
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This is getting old.
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/
"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."
Compare & contrast:
"Brock Estep, 31, of Knoxville, alleged that two men in a Toyota Avalon attempted to cut him off in traffic as they pulled out of the Waffle House parking lot at the corner of Weisgarber Road and Papermill Drive on Dec. 15."
"The officers' names have not been released."
"We determined they acted reasonably," Gill said.
Maybe it was mutual hostility, maybe they met some threshold of perceived danger. Thing is, anyone here expect to not have to spend big bucks defending such actions, were they to pull guns on an off-duty cop?
As instapundit writes, "Laws are for the little people."
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/135931/
what happened? is there evidence that causes you to believe they didn't act reasonably?
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yea the video was awful. and awful edited. if the doofus on the bike hadn't tried that hack job editing he likely woulda walked with an 80 dollar ticket . he beat the wiretap charge but hes still got some sweet traffic charges he richly deserved
Source?
Also, what does that have to do with anything?
FACT: Off duty cop got out of the car and DREW A *expletive deleted*ING GUN, without identifying himself immediately, on a dude.
A dude who was NOT, you know, raping, robbing, or killing anyone.
Also, i didn't see any edits. I saw continuous helmet cam footage.
And the kicker was: he wasn't even riding that recklessly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg
I see one continuous vid.
Lemme guess. He's a bad guy cuz he's riding a motorcycle, right?
THey got him for 80 MPH.
EIGHTY.
YOu think that's worthy of getting a gun drawn on you?
I suppose you've never travelled 80MPH?
Everyone went nuts because his SPEEDO said a huge number. He also had gearing changes on the bike, and no speedo-healer.
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Source?
Also, what does that have to do with anything?
FACT: Off duty cop got out of the car and DREW A *expletive deleted*ING GUN, without identifying himself immediately, on a dude.
A dude who was NOT, you know, raping, robbing, or killing anyone.
Also, i didn't see any edits. I saw continuous helmet cam footage.
And the kicker was: he wasn't even riding that recklessly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg
I see one continuous vid.
Lemme guess. He's a bad guy cuz he's riding a motorcycle, right?
THey got him for 80 MPH.
EIGHTY.
YOu think that's worthy of getting a gun drawn on you?
I suppose you've never travelled 80MPH?
Everyone went nuts because his SPEEDO said a huge number. He also had gearing changes on the bike, and no speedo-healer.
you missed all the hoopla? search is your friend it was discussed here. and he rode a wheelie at 110 as he passed a bus on the right. he topped out at 130 in traffic and ironically? his own hd vid is what nailed him. stupid should hurt. you imagine junior didn't know it was a cop? is that the thin green line? or just you deciding to back up a squid rider? cop wasn't outa control and never pointed the gun anywhere unsafe.
i bet that was a real career limiter for the boy. and i know if the grown son i let live in my basement got my house raided he and i would have a come to jesus moment. you didn't hear the cop identify himself? is that cause you saw the vid he edited the audio outa? or you believe the badge on his belt was invisible?
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So where exactly do you think we are headed?
Maybe I should have asked a simple question so I could understand your intent: Are you in favor of an authoritarian police state?
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you missed all the hoopla? search is your friend it was discussed here. and he rode a wheelie at 110 as he passed a bus on the right. he topped out at 130 in traffic and ironically? his own hd vid is what nailed him. stupid should hurt. you imagine junior didn't know it was a cop? is that the thin green line? or just you deciding to back up a squid rider? cop wasn't outa control and never pointed the gun anywhere unsafe.
i bet that was a real career limiter for the boy. and i know if the grown son i let live in my basement got my house raided he and i would have a come to jesus moment. you didn't hear the cop identify himself? is that cause you saw the vid he edited the audio outa? or you believe the badge on his belt was invisible?
Watch the full video. The identification came after "Get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle"
I see no badge. Maybe this guy didn't either. Especially since he was likely focused on the GUN
I say again. The radar caught him going passed the unmarked at 80.
the guy didn't have a speedo healer after his gearing change. What is on the video is irrelevant, as the speedo was not accurate.
The radar caught him at 80.
Wheelie?
LOL
yeah, sure.
That's cause for drawing a weapon on someone.
They threw the bull*expletive deleted* wiretapping charge on because they were caught being pricks.
Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?
Did you watch the video or are you just going off what people are saying on cop forums?
I've been 130+ on my motorcycle at the track. He was NOT going 130.
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Watch the full video. The identification came after "Get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle"
I say again. The radar caught him going passed the unmarked at 80.
the guy didn't have a speedo healer after his gearing change. What is on the video is irrelevant, as the speedo was not accurate.
The radar caught him at 80.
Wheelie?
LOL
yeah, sure.
That's cause for drawing a weapon on someone.
They threw the bull*expletive deleted* wiretapping charge on because they were caught being pricks.
Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?
Did you watch the video or are you just going off what people are saying on cop forums?
I've been 130+ on my motorcycle at the track. He was NOT going 130.
no radar try again i watched the long version of the video the first one he posted before he decided to cast himself as a victim and started peddling the "the video wasn't working line"
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Yes radar. I've seen the citation. They got him on radar doing 80.
But we'll just agree to disagree.
BTW: if they didn't have radar (or pacing,, and we know it wasn't that), the ticket wouldn't have stuck either. Just sayin.
With all the hoopla, don't you think if they could have gotten him for 130 they would have?
Trust me. dude was NOT doing 130. If you think so, your sense of speed is WAY off
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Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?
Means your CMYK printer is using yellow instead of magenta. [popcorn]
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Yes radar. I've seen the citation. They got him on radar doing 80.
But we'll just agree to disagree.
BTW: if they didn't have radar (or pacing,, and we know it wasn't that), the ticket wouldn't have stuck either. Just sayin.
With all the hoopla, don't you think if they could have gotten him for 130 they would have?
Trust me. dude was NOT doing 130. If you think so, your sense of speed is WAY off
http://woofie2.pixiq.com/files/blog/carlosmiller/uploads/2010/04/AnthonyGraber_939x689.jpg(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwoofie2.pixiq.com%2Ffiles%2Fblog%2Fcarlosmiller%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F04%2FAnthonyGraber_939x689.jpg&hash=4d998f6335ce2b66df812c8886f1b9678b24d3d8)
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"visually estimated" above 100
Cited for 80
Radar said 80.
You still haven't addressed ANY of the rest of my post.
But fine. You win. Motorcyclist was wrong and deserved an armed encounter. Hell, the cop probably should have shot him, to keep dangerous criminals like him off the streets!
By the way, that paperwork's *expletive deleted*ed too. He didn't rev. I hear no revving on the with-audio vid. Trumped up bull*expletive deleted* from a jackass cop
The full vid showed NOTHING worthy of getting a gun drawn on him. NOTHING
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can you show that citation? i just looked and couldn't and there is no mention of radar there. there is mention of the second trooper and he coulda shot radar . i think junior got off light. got stupid and it bit him in the butt
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can you show that citation? i just looked and couldn't and there is no mention of radar there. there is mention of the second trooper and he coulda shot radar . i think junior got off light. got stupid and it bit him in the butt
Again, answer my question: Was there ANYTHING on that stop worthy of getting a gun pulled?
Want me to ask the rider to scan a copy of the citation to post here?
Also, did you notice how the cop attempted to hide the gun when his pal showed up with the dashcam?
Yeah. He knew he was wrong
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what happened? is there evidence that causes you to believe they didn't act reasonably?
Read my response/comment in the OP.
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Again, answer my question: Was there ANYTHING on that stop worthy of getting a gun pulled?
Want me to ask the rider to scan a copy of the citation to post here?
Also, did you notice how the cop attempted to hide the gun when his pal showed up with the dashcam?
Yeah. He knew he was wrong
you and i clearly watched different videos
you really think the cop was afraid the trooper he coordinated the stop with would see his gun? why?
that was a soft stop. i've been yanked off the bike in the same spot. in your world view the young man who looked over his shoulder as he was decelerating on the ramp failed to notice the cop pulling up on him? you said you saw the citation? i would think a poor victim like him would have posted it long ago. heck he posted the evidence used to jack him on the traffic charges and get em escalated.. your allegation of speedo nonsense fails with me. if you use search and look at the long earlier thread you will see that his speed as indicated matched the speed limit when he was moving with the flow of traffic and unless his "error" only happened when he turned on the wick i think the squid got what he had coming. i hate it when they cry when they get caught. i wasn't the one who enchanced the vid in the earlier thread it was beaten pretty good then.
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OK guy.
You win. He was wrong, and deserved a gun in his face.
Maybe next time he'll do us all a favor and die
;/
He was NOT doing 130... 130 is a lot faster than that.
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so thats a no to showing the citation? i ran searches on google looking. did the poor victim get a sudden case of shy? all i found was the formal charging document and it doesn't have the word radar anywhere. maybe i need to refine my search?
here the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg
the speedo is visible
you would have me believe its works fine at 65 and throws a magic error at 127?
.44 in 1.13 in are good
at 3:00 he looks back over his shoulder as the cop comes up on him
at what point do you imagine, and i stress imagine , the gun was anywhere near his face? did one of us miss something?
i do stand corrected his speedo read 127
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So, he was doing the speed limit because a.) it was indicated, and b.) surrounding traffic was matching his speed.
That's your evidence.
Got it.
around 40-50 seconds in was maybe 90 MPH. POSSIBLY 100. I couldn't see the speedo in that time range.
But you're the expert.
All i know is, if an unidentified dude gets out and draws a weapon on me without immediately saying something, it might not work well for him.
Gun wasn't in his face. LOL....
Your definition of "in his face" is different than mine, apparently.
Tell me this, officer CSD, if they had any evidence of him doing 130, don't you think that's what they would have cited him with? ESPECIALLY considering the hoopla surrounding the case?
Also, I don't know if you knew this, but indicated speeds on sportbikes are GODAWFUL. Google it. EVERY manufacurer, even without the speedo healer issue, is WAY off, particularly up high. This has been verified with all the japanese brands in particular.
My old VTR would indicate 140 when i was doing 105 radar. GPS read 110.
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Screw it. I'm done with this.
If you really want to believe that the officer acted properly, that's fine.
Moderators, please for the love of god delete all my posts in this thread.
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Here's my question - since when is a motorcyclist (whose whole body is visible) Simone so likely to be a threat that the gun needs to be out?
Looks to me like officer uhler has seen one too many episodes of the wire
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Because motorcyclists are dangerous! Especially when they're... you know... going FAST and stuff!
I asked the same question, and Officer CSD repeatedly ignored the question.
In other news, my day is ruined now, because I suspect De Selby and I share views on this issue. And that does not sit well with me [tinfoil] >:D :facepalm: [barf]
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my understanding was they modified his traffic charges since he was kind enough to post hd video for them..
i watched the vid on my lap top and could read the 127.
squid got a break got all butt hurt and tried to play victim. got bit in the butt. as it should be. his second posting of the vid was 45 seconds long and he removed the audio . he tried to claim the cop didn't id himself. i think he knew he was had thats why he turned his head and looked back. did i miss where this occurred?
"deserved a gun in his face."
i think him trying to shade the truth about the cops behavior was a poor choice. trying to damage anothers career with deceit earns him slimy creature points. i hope he showed more character as a non com.
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my understanding was they modified his traffic charges since he was kind enough to post hd video for them..
i watched the vid on my lap top and could read the 127.
squid got a break got all butt hurt and tried to play victim. got bit in the butt. as it should be. his second posting of the vid was 45 seconds long and he removed the audio . he tried to claim the cop didn't id himself. i think he knew he was had thats why he turned his head and looked back. did i miss where this occurred?
"deserved a gun in his face."
i think him trying to shade the truth about the cops behavior was a poor choice. trying to damage anothers career with deceit earns him slimy creature points. i hope he showed more character as a non com.
I was talking about the longer one. I watched the longer one with audio. In fact, the shorter one i just saw a bit ago, which i suspect is the one you were talking about, had audio. Can you post this alleged "no audio" version?
he looked back because the other car pulled behind him and lit him up.
Sorry, Officer CSD, but it took a LONG TIME for the "state police" line to come out of that cops mouth.
And you know what? HIM trying to play the victim?
HE WAS CHARGED WITH WIRETAPPING!
He WAS THE VICTIM, of a trumped up, bogus charge by police who were embarrased that their officer lost his cool!
What you're essentially saying is, bogus, trumped up charges that strain credulity and constitutionality are OK, so long as you're a Bad Guy (tm)
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Here's my question - since when is a motorcyclist (whose whole body is visible) Simone so likely to be a threat that the gun needs to be out?
Looks to me like officer uhler has seen one too many episodes of the wire
ya think?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab4_1308408098
i think a guy backing his bike up reving it has the potential to take off and run me down. not that any squids ever done that. its interesting. i was a shameless squid. as a result i walked for 17 years after i got outa jail from my last stupid bike trick. and the we have msf instructor defending the video squid
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I was talking about the longer one. I watched the longer one with audio. In fact, the shorter one i just saw a bit ago, which i suspect is the one you were talking about, had audio. Can you post this alleged "no audio" version?
he looked back because the other car pulled behind him and lit him up.
Sorry, Officer CSD, but it took a LONG TIME for the "state police" line to come out of that cops mouth.
And you know what? HIM trying to play the victim?
HE WAS CHARGED WITH WIRETAPPING!
He WAS THE VICTIM, of a trumped up, bogus charge by police who were embarrased that their officer lost his cool!
What you're essentially saying is, bogus, trumped up charges that strain credulity and constitutionality are OK, so long as you're a Bad Guy (tm)
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ya think?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab4_1308408098
i think a guy backing his bike up reving it has the potential to take off and run me down. not that any squids ever done that. its interesting. i was a shameless squid. as a result i walked for 17 years after i got outa jail from my last stupid bike trick. and the we have msf instructor defending the video squid
The guy didn't rev anything that I can see.
I'm not defending speeding. I'm saying that A.) it isn't worth having a gun drawn on you, and B.) they tried to screw him with bull*expletive deleted* charges.
EDIT: yep. just watched again. His CBR was IDLING, from the moment the car pulled up until he shut it off. There was no revving
I counted 5 whole seconds from the moment the gun was visible till the moment the guy finally said who he was.
Are you going to call the MSF now and tattle on me? Since apparently you're all about authority and all.
Or is it your position that as an MSF instructor i shouldn't comment on things related to motorcycles? I'd say i'm uniquely qualified to do so, actually
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I was talking about the longer one. I watched the longer one with audio. In fact, the shorter one i just saw a bit ago, which i suspect is the one you were talking about, had audio. Can you post this alleged "no audio" version?
he looked back because the other car pulled behind him and lit him up.
Sorry, Officer CSD, but it took a LONG TIME for the "state police" line to come out of that cops mouth.
And you know what? HIM trying to play the victim?
HE WAS CHARGED WITH WIRETAPPING!
He WAS THE VICTIM, of a trumped up, bogus charge by police who were embarrased that their officer lost his cool!
What you're essentially saying is, bogus, trumped up charges that strain credulity and constitutionality are OK, so long as you're a Bad Guy (tm)
junior looked back over his shoulder as he was just starting to slow down on the ramp. the only car behind him was the unmarked car. the one he tried to claim he didn't know was a cop. what car are you now claiming lit him up? i don't think he was ever "lit up" in the way i understand the term.
the day after he got popped he posted a very short "zomg look what he did to me vid" and he claimed in that one that there was no audio available. he also tried to claim the cop never id'd himself. unfortunately the night before flush with the certitude of youth he had posted his longer "wow look at what i did" vid complete with all the audio. poor decision making. he even mentioned he got off light 80 mph ticket and got to walk. then apparently he decided to get cute. play victim. that got the cops interested and they charged him. that law needs to be revisited by the legislature the charge as the law is written was valid. the judge ruled on the law not the validity of the charge. so juniors dreams of at least salvaging a settlement in exchange for f'ing up his career are poof in the wind. theres a hundres squids post poor me vids only trying to damage someone else career with 1/2 truths got juniors pee pee whacked and he showed lil for me to admire. not someone i want leading my grand kids anywhere dangerous
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LOL.
I see nothing related to that "getting off light" comment at all.
Ok dude. Your perspective is so skewed it's ridiculous.
I'm finished. I'm glad you're ok with trumped up, unconstitutional charges, so long as the person is "doing something wrong."
So by your logic, I suppose we should just start manufacturing bullshit charges for anyone popped for anything? That'll learn em!
While we're at it, we should go ahead and start drawing guns every time someone speeds. And hell... we don't NEED to say who we are or flash a badge until 5 seconds later, do we?
Dude hid the gun from the dash cam. It's Plain as day. You can see him glance up, then slide the gun behind his leg and surreptitiously holster it.
Good to know who the police statists are on this board.
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Also, want to show me where he looked at the marked car before it actually stopped behind him?
Because I'm not seeing that either
the audio starts at 3:15 there is a longer one with all the audio out there as the audio starts at 3:15 hes pushing back and i can hear the bike coming down from being reved in the straight vid hes blipping it as he starts to push back
thats good he never looked at the marked car. he looked back on the unmarked one as it moved up on him
see? like i said here?
"junior looked back over his shoulder as he was just starting to slow down on the ramp. the only car behind him was the unmarked car. the one he tried to claim he didn't know was a cop"
which car are you claiming lit him up?
where did you see his citation again?
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the audio starts at 3:15 there is a longer one with all the audio out there as the audio starts at 3:15 hes pushing back and i can hear the bike coming down from being reved in the straight vid hes blipping it as he starts to push back
thats good he never looked at the marked car. he looked back on the unmarked one as it moved up on him
see? like i said here?
"junior looked back over his shoulder as he was just starting to slow down on the ramp. the only car behind him was the unmarked car. the one he tried to claim he didn't know was a cop"
which car are you claiming lit him up?
where did you see his citation again?
He looked behind him when slowing because YOURE FRIGGIN SUPPOSED TO DO THAT!
It's part of the MSF curriculum, and you're SUPPOSED to look back when you slow at ramps, intersections, etc.
Also, ther was no blipping as he was backing up. None. You're seeing things. The audio is already started by the time he starts pushing back, and there is no blipping
I'm assuming the marked car behind him had lit him up. I thought that's the "looking behind" you were speaking of.
So, these are the circumstances in which false charges are OK?
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the cops forwarded charges to the states attorney. he was charged under existing state law. a law that still exists. the drug ruled the law was bad. perhaps the difference between that and trumped up charges escapes you. until the legislature changes that law he might get charged again if he does it again and thats assuming the prosecutor doesn't appeal the ruling and prevail.
did junior tape the cop?
does md law require 2 party consent?
how was the charge false?
did someone lie? besides junior?
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the cops forwarded charges to the states attorney. he was charged under existing state law. a law that still exists. the drug ruled the law was bad. perhaps the difference between that and trumped up charges escapes you. until the legislature changes that law he might get charged again if he does it again and thats assuming the prosecutor doesn't appeal the ruling and prevail.
did junior tape the cop?
does md law require 2 party consent?
how was the charge false?
did someone lie? besides junior?
Oh, so as long as a bullshit charge is IN ACCORDANCE WITH LAW, we're supposed to accept it.
You said he wasn't a victim. I'm still waiting for you to defend that ridiculous assertion.
A bogus charge is a bogus charge, even if within the letter of the law.
The judge ruled the law is bad, which means that, even if it's still on the books, it's CHANGED. we have something called Case law in this country.
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Oh, so as long as a bull*expletive deleted* charge is IN ACCORDANCE WITH LAW, we're supposed to accept it.
You said he wasn't a victim. I'm still waiting for you to defend that ridiculous assertion.
A bogus charge is a bogus charge, even if within the letter of the law.
The judge ruled the law is bad, which means that, even if it's still on the books, it's CHANGED. we have something called Case law in this country.
he was a victim of his own arrogance and stupidity but they can't charge him for that
where did you see that citation again? and i was looking for the reference to his gear change and speedo issue and couldn't find that either can you help me out?
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he was a victim of his own arrogance and stupidity but they can't charge him for that
where did you see that citation again? and i was looking for the reference to his gear change and speedo issue and couldn't find that either can you help me out?
Met the guy. That's all you need to know.
I think the citation I saw wasn't the one from this incident though, because the timeframe isn't right.
Still doesn't invalidate ANYthing I said.
Fact: speedos are not a valid indicator of speed, especially on bikes. Even factory, they GROSSLY overestimate speed. I think there was a big deal about this when the k7 GSXRs came out, because the indicated speed was 10-15 percent higher than actual speed. Going with a different rear sprocket will greatly exacerbate this.
Fact: Bogus charge of wiretapping because their cop got caught being too aggressive. A fact even the COP agrees with, as evidenced by him attempting to hide the gun when the other car pulls up.
You have yet to provide me with a compelling reason to draw a gun on a speeder, or to provide me with an actual reason why the charge wasn't bull*expletive deleted*
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"an actual reason why the charge wasn't bull*expletive deleted*"
you mean other than the fact that md law makes 2 party consent a requirement? and still does as we speak?
"Still doesn't invalidate ANYthing I said."
other than your earlier claims about radar?
"Fact: speedos are not a valid indicator of speed, especially on bikes. Even factory, they GROSSLY overestimate speed. I think there was a big deal about this when the k7 GSXRs came out, because the indicated speed was 10-15 percent higher than actual speed. Going with a different rear sprocket will greatly exacerbate this."
his speedo isn't driven off the front wheel? did he change tire/wheel size?
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In other news, my day is ruined now, because I suspect De Selby and I share views on this issue. And that does not sit well with me [tinfoil] >:D :facepalm: [barf]
It can happen to the best of us.
BTW, one time while lane splitting around 80 on the 101 near San Francisco I heard the cop siren, I slowed down and looked all over and could not see any cops.
Being that I was a messenger at the time I decided that I had better stop lally gagging and started lane splitting around 90 ... once I got clear of traffic I was simply zooming south and relaxing, somewhere close to 90 , which on a good sportbike is perfectly safe and reasonable on a highway.
Then the cop on his harley finally caught up with me, I figured he couldn't lane split but tried and had one to many close calls or cups of coffee because he was visibly really angry and shaking.
I think he wanted to shoot me but never cleared leather.
He cited me for speeding and reckless, had to pay the speeding part but the judge said lane splitting was legal-sometimes CA rules.
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"an actual reason why the charge wasn't bull*expletive deleted*"
you mean other than the fact that md law makes 2 party consent a requirement? and still does as we speak?
Two party consent only applies when one party has an expectation of privacy. Since both parties were outside their vehicles on a public street that would be pretty hard to argue. Plenty of case law on that as well. That's why the wiretapping was a BS charge.
"Fact: speedos are not a valid indicator of speed, especially on bikes. Even factory, they GROSSLY overestimate speed. I think there was a big deal about this when the k7 GSXRs came out, because the indicated speed was 10-15 percent higher than actual speed. Going with a different rear sprocket will greatly exacerbate this."
his speedo isn't driven off the front wheel? did he change tire/wheel size?
Motorcycle speedos (and car speedos too for that matter) are driven off the transmission output shaft. So both gear and tire size changes affect heir veracity.
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Have to sympathise with Fitz here - my question is this: why on earth would you introduce the drawn weapon into a situation that began with speeding? Imagine if that had gone wrong...someone getting shot over a speeding ticket? It's grossly irresponsible to approach a traffic fine with a shooting in mind.
I do think it makes it worse that it's a motorcycle, not a car with tinted windows or something else that might give the officer less security in the stop.
There's no reason to behave that way for a traffic offence. Officers ought to treat people with respect, like equals, under the circumstances.
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Ok dude. Your perspective is so skewed it's ridiculous.
Of course it is. In CSD land, the only bad cops are the ones that arrest illegals for being here, well, illegally. All other cops are the good guys and always deserve the benefit of the doubt because they are such good guys that they couldn't possibly have done anything wrong.
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you trying to ride the false charges band wagon too?
you fellers do realize the difference between false charges and having a case thrown out? to be false charges someone has to have lied or fabricated.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-05-08/news/bs-md-hermann-police-wiretap-20100508_1_state-trooper-graber-s-case-camera
I asked Baltimore criminal defense attorney Steven D. Silverman whether he's ever seen Maryland wiretap law used the way it's being used against Graber. "Never, never, never," he said. And while he said prosecutors appear to be applying the law correctly, he noted, "I guess it's more of the 'contempt of cop' than the violation of the wiretapping law."
the night junior first posted he commented
"he was pretty cool, only wrote me for 80"
he didn't become a victim till later.
i suspect his editing down the 23 second clip to play that role bought him the ride. and the enhanced charges.
its a shame he didn't get a real lawyer right away there was a simple way to make it impossible for them to upgrade his charges but he was too busy posing to do that
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"an actual reason why the charge wasn't bull*expletive deleted*"
you mean other than the fact that md law makes 2 party consent a requirement? and still does as we speak?
"Still doesn't invalidate ANYthing I said."
other than your earlier claims about radar?
"Fact: speedos are not a valid indicator of speed, especially on bikes. Even factory, they GROSSLY overestimate speed. I think there was a big deal about this when the k7 GSXRs came out, because the indicated speed was 10-15 percent higher than actual speed. Going with a different rear sprocket will greatly exacerbate this."
his speedo isn't driven off the front wheel? did he change tire/wheel size?
Speedo is not driven off the rear wheel, guy.
When was the last time you rode a motorcycle? I'm wondering how you got so biased against them.
Yes, the charges were bullshit, because the law is bullshit.
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i like bikes miss mine.
ask your bud what changed over night. how it went from "he was pretty cool he only wrote me for 80" to him being a victim. i happened to catch his initial post and thought at the time he was pretty bright.
then his view changed and he posted the short version with the excuse about the audio. since i'd heard the audio the night before i knew i was being lied to. thats never good. a wiser revolutionary woulda paid that first ticket right away. the he coulda fought the upgrades under double jeopardy. i truly wise person would not have been in that spot at all and definitely never posted video of his crimes.
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you trying to ride the false charges band wagon too?
Nope. Words have meanings. I never used the words "False Charges".
I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him. And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public. I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.
Hence "Bullshit Charges". FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.
On another issue. It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen. I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?
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Nope. Words have meanings. I never used the words "False Charges".
I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him. And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public. I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.
Hence "Bull*expletive deleted* Charges". FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.
On another issue. It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen. I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?
It won't go well at all.
Folks like Officer CSD will say "Fry him! Cop was right! He shouldn't have been committing the mortal sin of SPEEDING!
I never said "false charges," either. I said "trumped up", "Bogus," and "Bullshit"
all three phrases apply.
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Nope. Words have meanings. I never used the words "False Charges".
I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him. And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public. I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.
Hence "Bull*expletive deleted* Charges". FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.
On another issue. It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen. I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?
i believe its already happened.
that our young hero didn't know it was the cops is another area of contention.
its is possible that the old adage "never attribute to malice that which could be caused by stupidity"
its possible that junior didn't know that was a cop when he looked over his shoulder at the car catching up with him, its possible but i like to thinks he was smarter. in my day when we were foolish and a car came up on us like that we knew who it was. juniors s/a was a bit week he rode up on the unmarked car then went 2 lanes over and passed the bus on one wheel. he did that in sight of the trooper as he cut back in front of the bus. maybe he didn't see the marked cop in the median too.
any idea how to find this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_732210&src_vid=RK5bMSyJCsg&v=9TICuwenwcs
its been removed
my interpretation of him turning his head to look back as the cop caught him was that he knew he was had.
i similarly do not share fitz's view that the cop "was hiding his gun" from the dash cam. i don't believe the other cop was that close until the gun was already holstered. and see no reason for the cop to be worried even if it was filmed. that stop was dejavu for me and typical of the stops i've seen where one pushes the envelope in traffic on a bike. the cops have this silly idea that guys on bikes will run and like to discourage that. i can't see anywhere where the gun was anywhere near our hero's face and in fact the cop kept his booger hook where it was supposed to be and the muzzle pointed correctly.
cop cut junior slack and let him keep bike and no reckless. when junior tried to play games cop took back the slack. theres a lesson to be learned but i'm not sure juniors a fast learner. especially since he apparently showed fitz some more paper. he would be wise not to drive like that in va. its not as lenient as md though you can tape to your hearts content
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It won't go well at all.
Folks like Officer CSD will say "Fry him! Cop was right! He shouldn't have been committing the mortal sin of SPEEDING!
I never said "false charges," either. I said "trumped up", "Bogus," and "Bull*expletive deleted*"
all three phrases apply.
"So, these are the circumstances in which false charges are OK?"
who said this?
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i believe its already happened.
that our young hero didn't know it was the cops is another area of contention.
its is possible that the old adage "never attribute to malice that which could be caused by stupidity"
its possible that junior didn't know that was a cop when he looked over his shoulder at the car catching up with him, its possible but i like to thinks he was smarter. in my day when we were foolish and a car came up on us like that we knew who it was. juniors s/a was a bit week he rode up on the unmarked car then went 2 lanes over and passed the bus on one wheel. he did that in sight of the trooper as he cut back in front of the bus. maybe he didn't see the marked cop in the median too.
any idea how to find this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_732210&src_vid=RK5bMSyJCsg&v=9TICuwenwcs
its been removed
my interpretation of him turning his head to look back as the cop caught him was that he knew he was had.
i similarly do not share fitz's view that the cop "was hiding his gun" from the dash cam. i don't believe the other cop was that close until the gun was already holstered. and see no reason for the cop to be worried even if it was filmed. that stop was dejavu for me and typical of the stops i've seen where one pushes the envelope in traffic on a bike. the cops have this silly idea that guys on bikes will run and like to discourage that. i can't see anywhere where the gun was anywhere near our hero's face and in fact the cop kept his booger hook where it was supposed to be and the muzzle pointed correctly.
cop cut junior slack and let him keep bike and no reckless. when junior tried to play games cop took back the slack. theres a lesson to be learned but i'm not sure juniors a fast learner. especially since he apparently showed fitz some more paper. he would be wise not to drive like that in va. its not as lenient as md though you can tape to your hearts content
And that's where your bias is showing through. Believe it or not I agree that he was driving like a *expletive deleted*che. And he absolutely should have gotten the ticket (or more). The rider here is far from blameless, which is part of how it's so easy for you and others to gloss on law enforcement's misdeeds.
I object to LE's behavior here in two (and only two) parts.
1. Approaching with a pistol drawn. Lets assume for the moment that the rider had run. What's the officer going to do? Pop a few shots at the back of a fast receding motorcycle? What's his backstop? They were on a freeway offramp, so the bullets are already pointed up (The land is sloped). Where on his departments use of force matrix is reckless driving? Not at the deadly force level. When he got out of his car, that rider had done nothing that indicated he was going to be violent. In fact the opposite, as he'd stopped. So the LEO escalated to deadly force by drawing a weapon where none was needed, and in fact, he would have been in trouble if he'd used it. In fact he brandished his weapon, in the full meaning of the word. LEO's are supposed to deescalate encounters, not escalate them.
2. He did not, in fact, "take back his slack". He, his department, and the prosecutorescalated once again. This time out of IMO nothing but spite. As I said, any lawyer worth his salt knew the wiretapping charge wouldn't fly. There's tons of case law about videotaping in public. They took back the slack on the traffic charges, which was fine if a little vindictive, and then added another BS charge in an attempt to either intimidate him or "teach him a lesson". It's a pretty blatant bullying move.
Those are the two parts where LE is at fault in this situation. The rider needs to own his own part in creating it, and tickets, loss of license, or bike could reasonably all be a part of his part. But in those two actions, it's all on the LE involved and they were in the wrong. I have seen no ownership of their misdeeds yet, or even acknowledgement of them. Hence the continued argument.
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Take back the slack?
LOL
And this is acceptable to you, because the rider was acting like a jackass.
*expletive deleted*ck someone's rights, as long as they're a jackass, right CSD?
I'm finished with this discussion. It's really good to know who on this board believes in the selective "granting" or "taking" of rights from someone, based on whether or not they "needed their pee pee slapped."
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as far as i know the manner in which that cop stopped the guy falls within his agencies guidelines. towards the upper end of them perhaps but all bikers pay for the sins of the few. it was certainly no worse than several of my dumb encounters of the law enforcement kind. the only thing his agency might ding him on is for not writing junior up for the full range of offenses and hauling his bike to impound and him to jail. watching them wrap chains around your bike and haul it off swinging on the belts of an old style tow truck is "instructive".
i think they perceived his actions as a chicken stuff move by a punk kid and responded. kid may well be paying for some of what the other revolutionaries did with his vid. but i believe he was the first one to play editing games. like i said i caught this vid right after he posted it when it was in "look at me aren't i cool!" status. before he got with his peers and became a revolutionary being ground under the boot of the man. again ask your bud what changed with his position overnite. i think he was posing for the crowd
as the defense attorney noted they charged within the law. kid had his day in court and the law may be changed. or clarified. its gonna fall on the legislature to do that.
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as far as i know the manner in which that cop stopped the guy falls within his agencies guidelines. towards the upper end of them perhaps but all bikers pay for the sins of the few. it was certainly no worse than several of my dumb encounters of the law enforcement kind. the only thing his agency might ding him on is for not writing junior up for the full range of offenses and hauling his bike to impound and him to jail. watching them wrap chains around your bike and haul it off swinging on the belts of an old style tow truck is "instructive".
i think they perceived his actions as a chicken stuff move by a punk kid and responded. kid may well be paying for some of what the other revolutionaries did with his vid. but i believe he was the first one to play editing games. like i said i caught this vid right after he posted it when it was in "look at me aren't i cool!" status. before he got with his peers and became a revolutionary being ground under the boot of the man. again ask your bud what changed with his position overnite. i think he was posing for the crowd
as the defense attorney noted they charged within the law. kid had his day in court and the law may be changed. or clarified. its gonna fall on the legislature to do that.
The manner in which the nazis threw jews into ovens fell within their government's guidelines. That doesn't make it right
Your argument keeps boiling down to "He was speeding, he's a punk kid."
He's not my bud, he's not my friend. But he was mistreated. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say. Your views on law enforcement are ... scary, to say the least.
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he was mistreated?! heck when they came back with the bonus charges they gave him a week before they let him turn himself in. he was recovering from medical stuff. thats like claiming if i go up to you and talk out my butt about you wife and child i've been mistreated when you pop me in the mouth. treated hard? yea mistreated? not so much he apparently wanted his day in court and he got it and prevailed. heck he can be famous if the legislature fixes the law
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he was mistreated?! heck when they came back with the bonus charges they gave him a week before they let him turn himself in. he was recovering from medical stuff. thats like claiming if i go up to you and talk out my butt about you wife and child i've been mistreated when you pop me in the mouth. treated hard? yea mistreated? not so much he apparently wanted his day in court and he got it and prevailed. heck he can be famous if the legislature fixes the law
We're arguing in circles. If you can't see how he's mistreated in this case, I worry for you.
Good day
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^^^ LOL!!! :police: [ar15] :cool:
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back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down
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back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down
So what?
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would leave a mark. did make you either give up next time or buy a faster bike
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That's what they should of done to this kid... put him down.
*expletive deleted*er was speeding. That's like... TERRORISM or something.
He should be in gitmo
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Good thing the guy didn't have a coffee can on the bike with him. >:D
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back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down
Wonderful, wonderful people.
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would leave a mark. did make you either give up next time or buy a faster bike
That's seriously your litmus test for .gov agent's behavior? It's not as bad as it used to be? Really?
Aren't you part black?
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Wonderful, wonderful people.
i should qualify that it was not state troopers it was pg county cops. they are in a class all their own. and they were dumping teens in some cases what we call today tweeners
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That's seriously your litmus test for .gov agent's behavior? It's not as bad as it used to be? Really?
Aren't you part black?
No, his litmus test is if it happened to him when he was growing up, then everyone else deserves to get the same treatment.
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Dear CSD, at what point did it become ok for the cop to pull his pistol? Also, when he looked back, what exactly was he supposed to see to know that he had been caught, the unmarked police car? The cop most certainly did not announce he was a cop before he pulled his pistol, he already had it out when he opened the door. And when exactly did he rev his engine? When he was foot backing up to keep from being hit by some jackass who pulls in front of him? And what was the person in the car in front supposed to think when they see someone step out of their car with a pistol drawn!? If that had been me in that car it would of not ended well for that cop.
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It's always OK for a cop to draw his pistol -- just for "presence." And even if he hasn't identified himself, it's you're responsibility to know anyway that he's a cop and not a thug. (the courts usually assume those two are mutually exclusive) You can thank "tough on crime" Republicans for much of that.
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The cop had his gin in his hand when he opened the door?! Really? Once again someone is watching different video than me. Junior qualified as a felony stop. And that's what he got. And would likely get his next adventure as well
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My mistake. He didn't have it clear of his holster, he had his hand on it pulling it out. That changes things drastically, ;/ Now about the other things?
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My mistake. He didn't have it clear of his holster, he had his hand on it pulling it out. That changes things drastically, ;/ Now about the other things?
you don't understand felony stop how do i need to explain it for you? i've had it happen but i seized control back from the jbt and made them stop doing that to me. it was pretty simple. i quit acting like our young hero on the road
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lets see fly down the road . pass one marked car that is pulling out on the hero's vid as he goes by. and in your imaginary worls when he turned his head on the ramp at 50 mph to look behind him he had no inkling that the car moving up to catch him was the police? you're prepping for not guilty by reason of mental infirmity? i don't think they do that in md or va for that matter. i think their position if he was cognizant enough to pass the drivers test his balls have dropped and hes man enough to be responsible. perhaps they need to revise that assessment in this case. good of you to acknowledge your earlier exaggeration its kind of like the "gun in his face " or gun aimed at him" and other "stuff makes a good sound bite but isn't credible
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Since when is speeding a felony? ??? <--serious question. Did it look like he even noticed the police car pull out? Sure we can see it on the head cam but that doesn't mean he saw it. Why would he think that an unmarked police car is the police? it wasn't an exaggeration. I thought he did, but on a second viewing I noticed that he didn't already have it out, was only in the process of pulling it out.
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speeding is not a felony most of the time , the most i ever got for speeding was 12 months but they could give ya reckless and in some cases that might be a felony a felony stop is not restricted to felonies its a descriptive term used to describe a set of procedures for how they jack you up when they are uncertain of just how stupid you intend to be. our hero was a "privileged class" and that might explain the sniveling. hes not used to accountability. i suspect he also got psyched up for his adventure into martyrdom after talking with the other keyboard revolutionaries. he certainly changed his tune in 24 hours
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Just to keep it interesting; How should we know that this is a Cop?
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No lights, no markings, not a Crown Vic or Charger (Most common cruisers) Doesn't seem to be running city/county different color plates, no extra antenna.
So we have a guy that the rider prolly just zoomed past, with no outward markings catch up on an off-ramp (by speeding), cut off and almost hit the bike:
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And then when the rider backs up to give them more room does this:
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Honestly no BS? I ride with earphones/plugs in so whatever he's yelling I cant hear. Assuming squidly riding on my part, this is a road rage incident. I'd throttle the bike into him while bailing out and come up shooting. I dare CSD to come up with a frame from that video between the looking back and seeing a road rager to his the cops hand on the bike where there's visual evidence that that man is a LEO.
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Just watched it a couple more times to be sure, and yeah. Right Here:
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I'd put the bike in the drivers door and come out with my gun. Nothing good happens after an angry road rager gets out of his car. I imagine I'd be in court, but I could honestly say that looks like a road rage attack.
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yea you could. of course there would still be all that pesky video. and some smartass lawyer pointing to 8 seconds later in the vid the marked car. and makeing the point for his side that after driving like you just did passing the marked car and all you shoulda expected it to be a cop. i'd have hit the gas and been gone if i saw that car like that and didn't believe it was a cop.
you make a good point dd about time someone did >:D
having made that point it makes me further suspect junior knew it was a cop and is being less than totally truthful in his later whimpering. his original post that first nite made no mention of not knowing it was a cop in fact "was pretty cool just wrote me for 80"
i suspect it was only after closeting with the electronic revolutionaries that he decided to turn in his man card. poor choice you struggle to regain moral fiber when you sell it out
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Ha, that clip is exactly like the officer Farva scene from "Supertroopers".
It does look like a road rage incident. Or a car/bike jacking. Or an about-to-happen hate crime against bikers (some people really, really dislike two wheel enthusiasts). What business does a plainclothes officer in an unmarked car have pulling over cutting off a vehicle, jumping out, drawing a pistol and yelling "get off the motorcycle" three times before identifying himself as state police? And all for a speeding violation?
Speeding violations and general traffic stops ought to be handled by clearly identifiable officers in properly marked cars. This was not an emergency for him to pull a stunt like that.
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Ha, that clip is exactly like the officer Farva scene from "Supertroopers".
It does look like a road rage incident. Or a car/bike jacking. Or an about-to-happen hate crime against bikers (some people really, really dislike two wheel enthusiasts). What business does a plainclothes officer in an unmarked car have pulling over cutting off a vehicle, jumping out, drawing a pistol and yelling "get off the motorcycle" three times before identifying himself as state police? And all for a speeding violation?
Speeding violations and general traffic stops ought to be handled by clearly identifiable officers in properly marked cars. This was not an emergency for him to pull a stunt like that.
its not an emergency till after hes in or causes an accident? is that your position?
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State of Oklahoma as a law stating that if LEO are running around in unmarked cars the officers are to be in uniform or they can't make stops like this.
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Ha, that clip is exactly like the officer Farva scene from "Supertroopers".
It does look like a road rage incident. Or a car/bike jacking. Or an about-to-happen hate crime against bikers (some people really, really dislike two wheel enthusiasts). What business does a plainclothes officer in an unmarked car have pulling over cutting off a vehicle, jumping out, drawing a pistol and yelling "get off the motorcycle" three times before identifying himself as state police? And all for a speeding violation?
Speeding violations and general traffic stops ought to be handled by clearly identifiable officers in properly marked cars. This was not an emergency for him to pull a stunt like that.
Just because the car/gun guy turned out to be a cop doesn't mean it wasn't road rage =(
Oh yeah - and eight seconds is an eternity. Just ask any bull rider :P
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State of Oklahoma as a law stating that if LEO are running around in unmarked cars the officers are to be in uniform or they can't make stops like this.
i think its depends on whether toy define a guy running at a multiple of the limit passing buses on the wrong side while riding a wheelie as a routine stop or endangering the public
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i think its depends on whether toy define a guy running at a multiple of the limit passing buses on the wrong side while riding a wheelie as a routine stop or endangering the public
Nope, too many case of Jackwagons pretending to be cops.
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i think its depends on whether toy define a guy running at a multiple of the limit passing buses on the wrong side while riding a wheelie as a routine stop or endangering the public
Isn't attempting suicide a crime in most jurisdictions? =D
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Just because the car/gun guy turned out to be a cop doesn't mean it wasn't road rage =(
Oh yeah - and eight seconds is an eternity. Just ask any bull rider :P
In any self-defense situation, you must pause and consider "what if this is a cop who just hasn't identified himself yet?" Take as long as you need, because you you have to identify your attacker as a non-LEO before you can defend yourself -- despite a USSC decision to the contrary. It's a Post 9/11 Worldâ„¢ now, and all the police want to do is go home to their families at the end of their shift (screw you and your family.)
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Nope, too many case of Jackwagons pretending to be cops.
really? theres a law that says an unmarked can't pull anyone over ever? no matter what they are doing? when did that law pass?
found this
c. evade apprehension or identification of the suspect or the vehicle of the suspect; or
http://www.iafc.org/files/downloads/VEHICLE_SAFETY/STATEemergVEHcodes/Oklahoma.pdf
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Isn't attempting suicide a crime in most jurisdictions? =D
not anymore though doing it on a road where you might volunteer others to join you is and should be a bozo nono.
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really? theres a law that says an unmarked can't pull anyone over ever? no matter what they are doing? when did that law pass?
You missed read. If being used for traffic enforcement, any officer in an unmarked car has to be in uniform.
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You missed read. If being used for traffic enforcement, any officer in an unmarked car has to be in uniform.
this guy wasn't doing traffic enforcement. undercover just had this guy volunteer to get cuffed and stuffed they had a marked car involved just slow by about 10 seconds
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its not an emergency till after hes in or causes an accident? is that your position?
That would be my position. Did the cop see him do all those things? Maybe he is psychic.
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i take it you haven't seen the vid? our hero rode a wheelie past a bus. he was in right lane bus in center as he comes past the bus the cop was in left lane just passing the bus too. kid really stepped in it and then made it worse later. stupid should hurt and i bet this left a welt
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its not an emergency till after hes in or causes an accident? is that your position?
Let's see... he wasn't cutting off cars, swerving wildly or going against traffic in the wrong lane or seeming out of control enough so as to suggest an imminent collision or accident.. His driving (or riding) was not on the same level of recklessness as the out of uniform cop who, had it been someone like dogmush he was stopping, could have created a shooting out of a would be speeding ticket. What the cop did was out of proportion to the risk at hand.
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another who missed the vid? the bus?
not even a good try
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this guy wasn't doing traffic enforcement. undercover just had this guy volunteer to get cuffed and stuffed they had a marked car involved just slow by about 10 seconds
The way the Oklahoma law is written he couldn't make that stop. Cannot do any type of traffic enforcement if in an unmarked car not in uniform.
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its not an emergency till after hes in or causes an accident? is that your position?
Actually I think it could be fairly said that by the time Officer road rage managed to go full retard, yes it wasn't an emergency. The rider was off the freeway and stopped before any LEO caught him. At that point, absolutely he should have waited the 8 whole seconds for the Marked car that he was in communications with (So he knew where it was) instead of jumping out of his car to play Road Rambo. Or, if he was actually worried about the kid taking off, use that 8 sec and his sneaky ride to get far enough in front of the bike the two cops could effectively bracket it. As it was if the kid had run his only option was to shoot him in the back. Bad tactics all around. which, you'll recall was Point 1 of what I said LE *expletive deleted*ed up about this situation. That LEO screwed that traffic stop six ways to Sunday. Yeah, the rider held the horns, but it was definitely the cop *expletive deleted*ing that goat.
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The way the Oklahoma law is written he couldn't make that stop. Cannot do any type of traffic enforcement if in an unmarked car not in uniform.
i looked for and failed to find that
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Actually I think it could be fairly said that by the time Officer road rage managed to go full retard, yes it wasn't an emergency. The rider was off the freeway and stopped before any LEO caught him. At that point, absolutely he should have waited the 8 whole seconds for the Marked car that he was in communications with (So he knew where it was) instead of jumping out of his car to play Road Rambo. Or, if he was actually worried about the kid taking off, use that 8 sec and his sneaky ride to get far enough in front of the bike the two cops could effectively bracket it. As it was if the kid had run his only option was to shoot him in the back. Bad tactics all around. which, you'll recall was Point 1 of what I said LE *expletive deleted*ed up about this situation. That LEO screwed that traffic stop six ways to Sunday. Yeah, the rider held the horns, but it was definitely the cop *expletive deleted*ing that goat.
cops are peculiar about how they stop bikes. they very often won't use lights etc. when i asked i was astonished to hear they don't light bikes up because so many of them just run when they do.and successfully. who'd have ever thought.
you think that cop was angry? i never thought of you as the sheltered life sensitive type. did he manhandle junior? toss him or bike to ground? cuff junior? all these twisted undies over raised voice and he displayed a gun? i know it was a scary black pistol but still.... >:D
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i looked for and failed to find that
http://amarillo.com/stories/040699/new_LO0722.001.shtml
"The measure requires the kind of lights that light up the night sky," Keating said. Also, the driver of an unmarked police car is required to be in uniform and the offense of impersonating an officer is upgraded from a misdemeanor to a felony.
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you think that cop was angry? i never thought of you as the sheltered life sensitive type. did he manhandle junior? toss him or bike to ground? cuff junior? all these twisted undies over raised voice and he displayed a gun? i know it was a scary black pistol but still.... >:D
Put your daughter on a bike and let me point a pistol at her. I'll be sure to explain that she was driving too fast. [Yeah I know they're kinda young, but they're growing up every day]
I didn't live a sheltered life at all. I've had guns pointed at me, that's part of why I take it so seriously. I've also been pulled over on a bike more then once, so I'm aware that it differs from a car stop. And yes that LEO could have been worse. And maybe you got smacked around a bit once or twice. And tea is expensive in Britain. And none of that changes the fact that that officer *expletive deleted*ed up that traffic stop. I know you'll never admit it, and I'm not quite mean enough to hope you get to learn the error of your ways with you or your family, but you're just wrong here.
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State of Oklahoma as a law stating that if LEO are running around in unmarked cars the officers are to be in uniform or they can't make stops like this.
That is remarkably sensible.
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i've asked others and they failed maybe you can do better? at what point did a pistol get pointed at someone?
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That is remarkably sensible.
it is. but it wouldn't have applied in this case
"unmarked police cars for routine traffic enforcement"
va used to make all sheriffs cars be painted a special color called "sheriff brown" they changed that a few years back and i wish they hadn't
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it is. but it wouldn't have applied in this case
"unmarked police cars for routine traffic enforcement"
va used to make all sheriffs cars be painted a special color called "sheriff brown" they changed that a few years back and i wish they hadn't
In Oklahoma yes it would still apply. That was a traffic stop and would be a no-no. He would've had to waited for the marked car.
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Wow. I couldn't measure that hair with a vernier micrometer.
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In Oklahoma yes it would still apply. That was a traffic stop and would be a no-no. He would've had to waited for the marked car.
i believe you are mistaken. in the case of a cop coming across something like that they act. even when as in this case off duty and plain clothes. and he had a marked car it was just slow. the ok law specifically mentions routine traffic patrol and this wasn't
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Passing the Bus?
Not reckless enough to justify the cop's ill executed traffic stop cut off. The cop was obviously beside himself because our traffic violator couldn't sense his "authoritah" from afar, despite lacking any form of visual identification. So when he finally caught up with the biker, he had the urge to assert his superiority by pulling a gun and acting like a nutjob. The biker then exposes the cop for the twit he is by posting the video online, and the Police retaliate by charging him with a BS 'wiretapping" charge. That's the crux of the situation. Petty as hell.
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i believe you are mistaken. in the case of a cop coming across something like that they act. even when as in this case off duty and plain clothes. and he had a marked car it was just slow. the ok law specifically mentions routine traffic patrol and this wasn't
It states they can not instigate traffic stops. This was a traffic stop. Not a pursuit but a traffic stop. A no/no under Oklahoma law.
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Passing the Bus?
Not reckless enough to justify the cop's ill executed traffic stop cut off. The cop was obviously beside himself because our traffic violator couldn't sense his "authoritah" from afar, despite lacking any form of visual identification. So when he finally caught up with the biker, he had the urge to assert his superiority by pulling a gun and acting like a nutjob. The biker then exposes the cop for the twit he is by posting the video online, and the Police retaliate by charging him with a BS 'wiretapping" charge. That's the crux of the situation. Petty as hell.
the cop was beside himself?! now you i did have figured for a sheltered life...
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http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=435836&hits=354+353+73+72+
The State of Oklahoma hereby declares and states that the increased number of persons impersonating law enforcement officers by making routine traffic stops while using unmarked cars is a threat to the public health and safety of all the citizens of the State of Oklahoma; therefore it shall be unlawful for any municipal police department to use any vehicle which is not clearly marked as a law enforcement vehicle for routine traffic enforcement except as provided in Section 12-218 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes. In addition to Section 12-218 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes, the peace officer operating the law enforcement vehicle for routine traffic stops shall be dressed in the official uniform including shoulder patches, badge, and any other identifying insignias normally used by the employing law enforcement agency.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=82398
A. Every authorized emergency vehicle shall, in addition to any other equipment and distinctive markings required by this title, be equipped with flashing red or blue lights or a combination of flashing red and blue lights. The lights shall be visible at five hundred (500) feet in normal sunlight .
B. A law enforcement vehicle when used as an authorized emergency vehicle may but need not be equipped with alternately-flashing red or blue lights specified herein. An unmarked vehicle used as a law enforcement vehicle for routine traffic enforcement shall be equipped with the following combination of lights:
1. Three flashing red, blue, or a combination of red and blue lights emitting the flashing lights to the front of the vehicle;
2. Two flashing white lights emitting the flashing white lights to the front of the vehicle;
3. Flashing red, blue, white or any combination of red, blue or white lights placed at and emitting the flashing lights from the four corners of the vehicle so that they are visible for three hundred sixty (360) degrees; and
4. One flashing red, blue, amber, or any combination of red, blue, or amber lights emitting the flashing light to the rear of the vehicle.
C. The use of the signal equipment described herein shall impose upon drivers of other vehicles the obligation to yield right-of-way and stop for authorized emergency vehicles, as prescribed in Section 11-405 of this title.
In Oklahoma the vehicle also needs to be lit up like a Christmas tree.
So based on this, this stop wouldn't have been allowed in Oklahoma.
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It states they can not instigate traffic stops. This was a traffic stop. Not a pursuit but a traffic stop. A no/no under Oklahoma law.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/enforce/aggressdrivers/aggenforce/oklahoma.html
i think they could call it a pursuit multiple cars high speed fair amount of distance
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http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=435836&hits=354+353+73+72+
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=82398
In Oklahoma the vehicle also needs to be lit up like a Christmas tree.
So based on this, this stop wouldn't have been allowed in Oklahoma.
from your first link
Phillips' bill passed easily in the House but ran into problems in the Senate, which amended it to lift the ban and require only that unmarked police cars have uniform lighting kits to distinguish them from other vehicles.
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http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/enforce/aggressdrivers/aggenforce/oklahoma.html
i think they could call it a pursuit multiple cars high speed fair amount of distance
You are sure starting to sound a lot like fistful. Can't just admit when you are on the wrong side of a situation.
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from your first link
Phillips' bill passed easily in the House but ran into problems in the Senate, which amended it to lift the ban and require only that unmarked police cars have uniform lighting kits to distinguish them from other vehicles.
What I linked last was the current statute on the books.
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What I linked last was the current statute on the books.
gotcha doe the word municipal apply to state police cars? or is that just for the town cops etc?
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Mods, we need an ignore function. Simple machines forum 2.0 has one
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that function exists on my keyboard. it requires me to not type back at that which twists my knickers
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gotcha doe the word municipal apply to state police cars? or is that just for the town cops etc?
Actually the Oklahoma Highway Patrol does not use unmarked vehicles in traffic situations.
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yea they are phased out here too except for a few special patrols on the highways. and they muse the slick top cars marked no light bar
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You are sure starting to sound a lot like fistful. Can't just admit when you are on the wrong side of a situation.
Next thing you know, he'll be singing the praises of pepperoni over bacon. :O
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Today I tought a basic ridercourse to new riders.
Since I taught them to look behind them when slowing, am I now an accessory to a "felony?"
Also, on the way home, a car flew by me at 100 or so... then slammed the brakes, nearly sideswiped me changing lanes, and sped off.
Later down the road, he was pulled over. Guess what the officer didn't have out while talking to him?
his weapon.
Wanna know why?
Because cops aren't prejudiced against cars.
But if it was a bike, might as well wipe your ass with your rights, right?
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Next thing you know, he'll be singing the praises of pepperoni over bacon. :O
that mean you took the time to watch the vid and are through? :angel:
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"when freedom is outlawed then only outlaws will have freedom"
I was talking to some fellow NY messengers who ride motorcycles, lots of new york riders around the NYC metro area have simply taken off their plates and if they get pulled over they elude.
Like the insane gun laws, NY motorcycle laws are written by people who never ride and hate that other people do. It seems as if many east coast cops dislike motorcycles. My brother is a cop in NY he tried to pull a speeder over for going 65 on a highway posted 55 ;/ ??? - couldn't catch him.
Also told he had a detail a few times, drive exactly the speed limit in the fast lane, then pull over the angry people :mad: ???
The east coast is a strange place, NV is strict but ten over in the fast lane on a highway won't even raise an eyebrow.
I was speeding myself one time on my way south to the Golden Gate Bridge, 5 lanes of bumper to bumper & the cop car was like ten 15 cars behind me , I was lane splitting at high speed there was no way to really safely make it to the side of the road ... Lane splitting is safe, common in the SF bay area-one of the few cool things about CA. I didn't pull over and do not feel at all guilty.
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Today I tought a basic ridercourse to new riders.
Since I taught them to look behind them when slowing, am I now an accessory to a "felony?"
Also, on the way home, a car flew by me at 100 or so... then slammed the brakes, nearly sideswiped me changing lanes, and sped off.
Later down the road, he was pulled over. Guess what the officer didn't have out while talking to him?
Draw his weapon.
Wanna know why?
Because cops aren't prejudiced against cars.
But if it was a bike, might as well wipe your ass with your rights, right?
i never felt picked on when i rode. in fact i got slack. lots of cops ride and are pretty understanding about how it is.
do cops usually get folks outa the car in your experience? i almost never see that unless its prelude to a dui
there are plenty of folks annoyed by the plethora of squids out there having fun. plenty of folks scared by em a few get hurt. if bikers want to be better treated they might wanna look at their own behavior. the ones who don't drive stupid but give the wink and nod to those that do especially
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1536
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the cop was beside himself?!
Yeah, beside himself.
If he had a cool and collected thought he could have waited for the marked car that was a few seconds behind him to catch up and do a proper stop, seeing as there was a line of cars on the exit and the biker was clearly slowing down coming to a full stop behind the traffic. But apparently he was so outraged by the biker's stunt that he decided to pull one of his own.
On top of that, he should have identified himself as police as soon as he exited his vehicle and unholstered his pistol but apparently he was too worked up to think about doing that. Any person who is thinking straight will realize that cutting someone off, jumping out yelling and waving a firearm, then as an afterthought saying "Oh, BTW I'm State Police", isn't a good idea.
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I am confused by the term squids. ??? Is that a common term for motorcycle riders?
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I am confused by the term squids. ??? Is that a common term for motorcycle riders?
It's a derogatory term for reckless sportbike rider.
Acronym of Stupid, Quick, Under-dressed, Imminently Dead.
ETA: Urban dictionary made me chuckle:
squid
An extremely rare animal with a short lifespan. Usually a new sport bike enthusiast with the reasoning of a lunatic, whom you might see thrashing on an R1 wearing sandals, shorts, and a tee.
When found lying motionless on the pavement, this creature transforms itself into a stream of blood, exposed flesh, and broken limbs.
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if bikers want to be better treated they might wanna look at their own behavior
Truth to that ;)
I really don't care how fast you want to ride, but I highly resent the erratic riding that puts me in the position of likely having to scrap you off some part of my vehicle. :P
Clue: after passing another vehicle, it is polite and safe to allow adequate following distance before moving back into the right lane. If a biker tries to dash in and pass on the right in a blind spot, close encounters of the deadly kind may occur. ;)
I have no tolerance for either idiot bikers or idiot cops =(
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Not to cop bash, but I just thought I'd toss a little substitution at the oscillating impeller and see what hit the walls.
if bikers cops want to be better treated they might wanna look at their own behavior. the ones who don't drive act stupid but give the wink and nod to those that do especially