English grammar question

[seeker_two]

I don't "give it" to anyone.

If you know what I mean.

Yes, we know what you mean.....

....you leave it out in public like a chicken pot pie in an Ethiopian village.....

[Hawkmoon]

"Him" would be correct in the sentence as offered, but I hope to G-d that nobody on this forum would actually write such an abortion of a sentence.

[Mabs2]

Yes, we know what you mean.....

....you leave it out in public like a chicken pot pie in an Ethiopian village.....

That's actually not what I meant.
You lose.

[230RN]

Hawkmoon observed,

"Him" would be correct in the sentence as offered, but I hope to G-d that nobody on this forum would actually write such an abortion of a sentence.

I often depart from "classically correct" grammar for the sake of simple readability, even though I know (as in my previous post) what the correct form should be.  Churchill's "up with which I will not put" remark comes to mind. 

Let's face it, dialog and common speech is what ultimately defines correct grammar and spelling and like that there. *

So then the grammarians spend two to ten decades modifying their codifying to make their "logical" structure of the language conform to what's already correct on the street. And they often have to invent new words and phrases to describe what's "out there" and make it fit into their logical structure.  Like "gerund," and "participle" and past perfect future tense.  Or was it future perfect past tense?  The point is that the grammar follows the usage, not the other way around.

Terry, 230RN
_______________

*
OR:

"Let's face it, dialog and common speech are what ultimately define correct grammar and spelling and like that there."

Take your pick.  Is (are) dialog and common speech two singulars, or do they combine to make a plural?   Or isn't it really just a question of which sounds better, less awkward, more readable or speechable?

[coppertales]

It has only been 50 years since I had grammar theroy.  Anyway, I gave it to the guy sitting in the pilot's seat.......chris3

[230RN]

"It has only been 50 years since I had grammar theroy"

There is no grammar "theory."  That was my point.  It is all after-the-fact attempts at description of what "is."

This results in mere highly-contorted "Rules" for yesterday, not theories applicable to today. 

K?

Terry, 230RN

[MrsSmith]

230RN - put down the style guide and step slowly away.
 

[230RN]

Humph.  I used to use (I think) the Chicago Tribune/AP style manual.  Didn't like it.  Went to another one which allowed me to capitalize days of the week --I think that was the Atlantic Monthly, not sure.

I looked over another one (forget whose), didn't like that one for one reason or another.

Finally decided to use the TAT style manual.  It works for me, and I'm the Publisher, Chief Editor, Production Manager, and Sales Manager.

And I get a new copy of every edition for free.

So if you see "slaes Manager," it's correct usage according to my style menuel.

And some of us even use the e.e. cummings style manual.

'Sokay with me, too.

TAT, 230RN

[zahc]

I used to like Strunk/Elements of style, but they are dead to me after the third edition, when they decided that it's not correct to use masculine pronouns generically.

[230RN]

When I worked at a real "progressive" place, I would follow everyone's lead and use s/he if gender was unknown.  I still inadvertently use "youse" for the plural you. That started out as a joke, being fum Bvooklyn, myself.   One of the Bibles I used as a kid used a capitalized "You" for the plural.  Confused me no end until I finally got a rush of brains to the head and figured it out. 

Anyhow, my point remains unchallenged:  that language is a flexible, growing thing, and as new usages occur "on the street," grammarians follow along with new hypothetical constructs to 'splain 'em, and set those up as "rules."  And then they are confounded when the usages change once again.

After all, analogously, the lexicographers did not invent the word "transistor."  Bell Labs did, and the dictionarians had to follow up with a new entry in their next edition.  So wooncha know it, soon the word "transistor" became synonymous with small pocket radios, for those old enough to recall that.  Whoops!  Back to the typesetter's bench.

Further examples abound.

Hey, "wooncha."  I like it.  I think I'll kepe it.

Terry, 230RN

[zahc]

I guess that explains the Steely Dan lyric

"Stoppin' on the avenue by radio city with a transistor and a large sum of money to spend..."

I always wondered about that one.

[230RN]

Always glad to help. :)

Terry, "Living Historian," 230RN

[coppertales]

If there is no grammar theroy, what was all that crap pounded into my head up through high school?  I guess they don't teach that any longer due to the way people speak today.....chris3

[230RN]

^ Job security.

[MrsSmith]

I used to like Strunk/Elements of style, but they are dead to me after the third edition, when they decided that it's not correct to use masculine pronouns generically.

I still have a copy of Strunk & White (4th Ed) that I keep in my briefcase for when I'm out and need to look up annoying little things I can never remember like the difference between affect and effect. But for real stuff I use AP Style and have created my own style sheet for things specific to the boating industry for my publication.
Grammer-monster.com is fairly useful too.

And if I really want to screw with my readers I consult 230RN.

[230RN]

^