Is this a back-door attempt at a weapons ban?

[T.O.M.]

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=150

The Customs Department is redefining what is and isn't a switchblade for importation rules.  I found this buried in the Non Ifrearms area over at THR.US, and as I read it, it became clear to me that something no good is going on here.  Basically, in redefining the term "switchblade," teh new regs would include knives with assisted opening features.  The one example that quickly caught my attention was a knife from Fiskars Corp. that included a thumb stud on the blade for one handed opening.  No springs, levers, etc.  Just the now-typical thumb stud.  under proposed Customs regs, this would make the knife a switchblade.

Why do we care about importation rules?  My friends, you surely know how this works.  Someone syas to a legislative type "Customs has changed the laws on what is a switchblade.  It's now illegal to import these dangerous knives, but the law still lets you carry the same knife it is was made in America."  Next thing you know is someone is proposing a ban on "switchblades" which includes any knife with one handed opening features, like thumb studs or holes in the blade.

As minor as this may seem on the surface, I think we may need to watch this, and get pen and paper ready.  This could be the start of something really bad.

[Matthew Carberry]

I, Mr. High'n'mighty when it comes to criticizing others for not looking for info on their own, have a lazy question.

Does the notice at knifefighters (motto - "We fight knives, all day every day, beat them knives!) contain any info on a comment period by Customs?  Is there a process to make one's feelings known to those making the decisions?

[dogmush]

Third paragraph of the link:

Knife Rights and AKTI are formulating a response and will each be asking for an extension to the ridiculously short 30 day comment period. PLEASE DO NOT WRITE JUST YET. Within the next week we will post a form letter and talking points for your use. We will then need you to write and MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD!

[Matthew Carberry]

Thanks dogmush.

Chris, when that is available please repost it here.

I'd like to help out the effort.

[Physics]

Thanks dogmush.

Chris, when that is available please repost it here.

I'd like to help out the effort.

I will ditto that. 

[Standing Wolf]

The Customs Department is redefining what is and isn't a switchblade for importation rules.

What did those courageous boys and girls do: find all the pot?

[AJ Dual]

What did those courageous boys and girls do: find all the pot?

I think it's more a matter of the mission-creep that's endemic to any bureaucracy. If they don't occasionally find new and interesting things to interdict, and they keep doing the same dependable job year in and out, that raises eyebrows that they're not "working hard enough".

[RevDisk]

Why do we care about importation rules?  My friends, you surely know how this works.  Someone says to a legislative type "Customs has changed the laws on what is a switchblade.  It's now illegal to import these dangerous knives, but the law still lets you carry the same knife it is was made in America."  Next thing you know is someone is proposing a ban on "switchblades" which includes any knife with one handed opening features, like thumb studs or holes in the blade.

I do export control and compliance for a living now.  There are a mind boggling number of restrictions exist on importing or exporting goods, services or information.  For instance, technically speaking, if you have any object on the US munitions list, you should always check proof of citizenship prior to making an export of any kind.  If you have FLIR devices, NVG's, composite items, avionics, advanced electronics, etc you can't 'export' without a license.  This is, a license per export (which is specific in scope and end user), there is no universal export license.  An export doesn't necessarily mean you're shipping something out of the country.  Simply showing the manual of an ITAR item to a foreign national is an export.  To give an example.  A Canadian walks into a camera store you happen to own in the US and says he is thinking of buying a FLIR or night vision camera (for whatever reason).  You show him the manual, but don't sell him anything.  Congrads, you just broke the law.  You exported technical data on an ITAR restricted item to a foreign national without an export license from the State Department.  Fines run from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions.  Jail time is optional, but can be quite stiff.

The Constitution grants the government extremely generous abilities to control the borders of the US.  The govt is essentially allowed to do whatever it pleases to whoever or whatever crosses said borders.  This is why Custom bans on non-sporting firearms will probably always be ruled Constitution, even if doing so domestically would violate Heller.  As much as I hate to say it, it's probably entirely Constitutional for Customs to ban importation of assisted open knives unless Congress overrules Customs.

[Monkeyleg]

Under Wisconsin law, if a knife can be opened with one hand, it's a switchblade.

As for exports, I didn't realize that things were as crazy as RevDisc describes until I got a call from a guy from Belgrade who was visiting the US. He wanted to know if it was legal for him to buy a plain 3-9x40 scope from me and take it home with him. I spent nearly an hour talking to different government agencies, and was finally told that he couldn't do it. He needed an export license to take it home.  :rolleyes:

[RevDisk]

As for exports, I didn't realize that things were as crazy as RevDisc describes until I got a call from a guy from Belgrade who was visiting the US. He wanted to know if it was legal for him to buy a plain 3-9x40 scope from me and take it home with him. I spent nearly an hour talking to different government agencies, and was finally told that he couldn't do it. He needed an export license to take it home.  :rolleyes:

Oh, oh.  Lemme guess!


You had to call the following:

US State Department - Directorate for Defense Trade Controls because it is on the US Munitions List so it is governed by International Trade in Arms Regulations. 

US Department of Commerce - Bureau of Industry and Security because it is governed by Export Administration Regulations.

And maybe, just maybe, the US Department of Defense - Defense Technology Security Administration because one or both of the previously meantioned departments incorrectly thought it was a foreign military sale (FMS).

Then, once you have all of your export licenses, end user certificates, export indentification numbers, statements that it is not a FSM, you called up Customs.  Or more wisely, you called up an international shipping expediting company that specializes in shipping ITAR stuff, and pay them a lot of money to talk to Customs for you.

Could be worse.  You would be trying to export the most advanced helicopters on the planet, filled with electronics, avionics, composite materials, FLIR/NVG stuff, and occassionally weapon mounts to random countries around the globe on a daily basis.  Oh, occassionally to heads of state, paramilitary groups or counterinsurgency folks.  Yay, I love my job. 

[Monkeyleg]

No, RevDisk. I got as far as the Customs office (they call it by some other name, though) in Chicago, and was told no. I tried to explain that this was just a plain jane rifle scope that you'd put on a deer rifle, but that didn't cut it.

If I need to export a helicopter, though, I'll know who to contact.

[Gewehr98]

The export restrictions are broad-ranging.

When I had my custom 6.5-06 dies made by RCBS, there was paperwork in the box explaining in no uncertain terms that the dies could not be exported to certain countries. 

I thought it was intriguing, because one of the countries on the list was the former Yugoslavia. This was right about the same time that we were having problems with snipers shooting at our guys during the Bosnian War, and it wasn't too difficult to see why a 6.5-06 reloading set wouldn't be the best thing to send over there...

[Strings]

>Under Wisconsin law, if a knife can be opened with one hand, it's a switchblade.<

Are you positive on that, Dick? Most of the folding knives I own fit that criteria. Hell, most of the folders in Sprawlmart do!

[Monkeyleg]

941.24 Possession of switchblade knife. (1) Whoever
manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses
or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens
by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by
gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be
surrendered to any peace officer.
History: 1977 c. 173.

I'd say that pretty much covers any knife that can be opened with one hand. I remember a case from at least ten years ago when a carpet installer riding a bus was arrested for carrying a switchblade. It was the utility knife he used for work.

[Regolith]

941.24 Possession of switchblade knife. (1) Whoever
manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses
or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens
by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by
gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be
surrendered to any peace officer.
History: 1977 c. 173.

I'd say that pretty much covers any knife that can be opened with one hand. I remember a case from at least ten years ago when a carpet installer riding a bus was arrested for carrying a switchblade. It was the utility knife he used for work.

I don't really see anything in there that bans knives that open using a thumb stud or hole.  "Thrust or movement" means that it can be opened by flicking the wrist, which most one-handed knives prevent by using a detent, which means they can't be opened that way until they're already partially opened.  Otherwise, they could classify ANY folding knives as being switchblades, because they are also opened using a "thrust or movement" and the statute doesn't say anything about being able to be opened only by one hand.

[Strings]

Actually, I have a Gerber Combat Applegate folder that I can "flip" open quite easily. And I've opened it around cops before, without any problem...

[Monkeyleg]

There's a lot of knives I see in stores that I'm sure a DA could argue constitute a switchblade if he so wished. "Thrust or movement" sounds pretty vague.

[Viking]

Actually, I have a Gerber Combat Applegate folder that I can "flip" open quite easily. And I've opened it around cops before, without any problem...

I can do the same with my Gerber Kiowa. Flicking my wrist in the right way, and with enough force, and it opens up with a rather satisfying sound.

[AJ Dual]

Obviously, the WI knife laws are overly broad and vague on purpose.

It's just a tool to prosecute those they don't like for whatever other reasons, legitimate or not.  Nothing proves it better than that half of Wallyworld's knife case is illegal by even just a moderate reading of WI knife law. At least all the Kershaw assisted openers are at minimum.

Does anyone know if the "switchblade" laws were passed in the 50's, during the "West Side Story" version of youth/crime/fear? I'm feeling too lazy to research it.

[freedom lover]

Does anyone know if the "switchblade" laws were passed in the 50's, during the "West Side Story" version of youth/crime/fear? I'm feeling too lazy to research it.

They were. From wikipedia:
 

This was most prominent in the late 1950s, when films such as The Wild One in 1954, Rebel Without a Cause and High School Confidential in 1955, the Broadway play West Side Story and 12 Angry Men in 1957 all featured switchblades, and were closely followed by the US Switchblade Act of 1958 (a federal law; individual state laws differ widely)

[MechAg94]

I would ask what makes a switchblade more dangerous than other knives, but it is likely the same as the extra lethality an AR-15 has when you add a bayonet lug.

[Werewolf]

I think it's more a matter of the mission-creep that's endemic to any bureaucracy. If they don't occasionally find new and interesting things to interdict, and they keep doing the same dependable job year in and out, that raises eyebrows that they're not "working hard enough".

Ya KNOW! That doesn't just apply to the Customs boys.

It's also the best description of exactly what's wrong with Congress and the bozos we send there I've ever read...

[Werewolf]

941.24 Possession of switchblade knife. (1) Whoever
manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses
or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens
by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by
gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be
surrendered to any peace officer.
History: 1977 c. 173.

I'd say that pretty much covers any knife that can be opened with one hand. I remember a case from at least ten years ago when a carpet installer riding a bus was arrested for carrying a switchblade. It was the utility knife he used for work.

We've got almost the same law in OK. What's wierd is that it is legal to sell those types of knives and believe me they are for sale at almost every flea market. It is not legal to own one. How can a retailer sell them then without owning them? Retailers are excepted.

I expect the law was written as it was for the same reasons that one poster already posited: Broad enough so that it is one of those laws DA's can use to nail your every day average evil doer for something.