Author Topic: How to get rid of or cover Efflorescence (Read 6444 times)

never_retreat · « **on:** February 23, 2013, 03:01:43 PM »

This stuff is popping up on the cement floor in the basement. This are is destined to be the man cave.
I'm still up in the air on what kind of floor to put down in there anyway. What kind of flooring would be good for the reloading room and this crap wont pop through? The floor is currently panted so epoxy although simple would be hard.

Boomhauer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2013, 03:25:12 PM »

Dont know if itd stop that but Vinyl Composite Tile is an excellent cost effective floor.

never_retreat · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2013, 04:11:00 PM »

Quote from: Boomhauer on February 23, 2013, 03:25:12 PM

Dont know if itd stop that but Vinyl Composite Tile is an excellent cost effective floor.

That was my 1st choice, but I'm not sure if that and the mastic will stop this from coming through.

Harold Tuttle · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »

muratic acid is what my grandfather used for brick that bloomed out

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2013, 07:13:01 PM »

Even muriatic acid just cleans the efflorescence off the top surface. The problem is that there's moisture from below the floor wicking up through the concrete. As the moisture moves through the concrete, it dissolves lime that's in the cement. Once the moisture reaches the surface, it evaporates and leaves the lime as ... efflorescence.

Unless you can figure out where the moisture is coming from and how to stop it, nothing is going to be a really good solution.

brimic · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2013, 09:37:06 PM »

Quote

Unless you can figure out where the moisture is coming from and how to stop it, nothing is going to be a really good solution.

About the best thing I've seen is a product called 'Dry Lock' which is a latex sand mix that fills the pores of concrete, but even that will separate from the concrete over time if the moisture isn't stopped.

About the only way to fix it is making sure the grade outside goes away from the house and your downspouts carry water far enough away. I had moisture problems a few years ago and found that it was because my patio slab settled a few inches and was allowing water to run back towards my foundation- mudjacking fixed the problem for fairly cheap.

HankB · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2013, 10:40:15 PM »

Quote from: brimic on February 23, 2013, 09:37:06 PM

About the only way to fix it is making sure the grade outside goes away from the house and your downspouts carry water far enough away.

Beyond the surface grading, sometimes putting a layer of plastic about 3 or 4 feet wide under whatever foundation plantings you have helps - this can be covered with rocks, mulch, or whatever, but you have to be sure it slopes away from the house, too.

never_retreat · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2013, 08:36:31 PM »

Quote from: HankB on February 23, 2013, 10:40:15 PM

Beyond the surface grading, sometimes putting a layer of plastic about 3 or 4 feet wide under whatever foundation plantings you have helps - this can be covered with rocks, mulch, or whatever, but you have to be sure it slopes away from the house, too.

The basement is not what i would consider wet. I have french drains and a sump pump pit that has year round water in it (about a 1' below the slab). Pump usually only kicks in when it rains.
There is no regrading this property. Dam thing is almost flat. Soil does not drain either.

K Frame · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2013, 09:09:10 AM »

"The problem is that there's moisture from below the floor wicking up through the concrete."

This.

If you glue vinyl down to the flooring, even if you clean the bloom off, eventually it will actually bubble the vinyl up because of the build up of minerals.

"The basement is not what i would consider wet."

Doesn't need to be physically wet. Concrete is, essentially, a large rigid sponge. Water moves through it all the time unless the ground underneath it is absolutely bone dry. One it does get wet, it can take months, or even years, to completely dry out.

DryLok, or a similar paint, can REALLY slow that moisture transferrance process down, but it won't entirely stop it.

geronimotwo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2013, 01:45:08 PM »

Quote from: HankB on February 23, 2013, 10:40:15 PM

Beyond the surface grading, sometimes putting a layer of plastic about 3 or 4 feet wide under whatever foundation plantings you have helps - this can be covered with rocks, mulch, or whatever, but you have to be sure it slopes away from the house, too.

on the upper side of the house i used 10mil plastic under ground so it creates an in ground planter gutter. i basically started with a properly sloped 3' wide trench 1' deep, and lined it with the plastic. then i laid my drain pipe and covered it with landscape cloth. then refilled with plantable soil. gutters would be much easier, but i hate the way they ice up around here.

HankB · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2013, 02:37:52 PM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on February 25, 2013, 09:09:10 AM

. . . DryLok, or a similar paint, can REALLY slow that moisture transferrance process down, but it won't entirely stop it.

What about a penetrating waterproofing product? I remember reading in my old Machinery's Handbook about finishing concrete floors with a mixture of linseed oil thinned with gasoline (

) , but that was to keep down dust - but I imagine it would also provide some waterproofing. I imagine Tung oil would work, too, and adding a little Japan drier as a catalyst would speed drying up. Silanes have also been used to waterproof concrete. I've also seen ads for Thompson's Water Seal, but I think it's mostly solvent naphtha, so I don't know how or even if it would work . . .

K Frame · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2013, 04:18:58 PM »

I think DryLok is a penetrating sealant.

An epoxy may work well, too, but I don't know.

charby · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2013, 04:25:10 PM »

What sort of external drainage does your cellar have? Tile to a sump then pumped out?

geronimotwo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2013, 05:14:33 PM »

some sheet vinyl products don't need to be glued. it may get mildew underneath though, if it is wet enough. how about some white shag?

never_retreat · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2013, 10:35:48 PM »

Quote from: charby on February 25, 2013, 04:25:10 PM

What sort of external drainage does your cellar have? Tile to a sump then pumped out?

Exactly.

Eventually the whole basement will be finished, I plan on using those heavy rubber backed carpet squares for the rest of the basement.
But I was thinking with this being the gun room I would use some sort of solid floor.
Maybe I should seal it and put down some of that interlocking composite wood flooring substance.

If I was going to put a sealer down on the floor I would have to remove the paint correct?

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2013, 04:02:23 AM »

The wife was watching some home improvement show a few days ago and they showed a subfloor product made to keep the actual flooring material off of a basement concrete floor and to provide some airflow. IIRC it was something like 1/4-3/8" thick and wasa floating floor. Damned if I can remember the name of if but it sounds like it might work for what you want.

brimic · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2013, 08:11:10 AM »

I've seen a method where they dig a 3-4" wide trench around the perimeter of the basement on the inside that empties into your sump pit, and which is filled with loose pea gravel.

charby · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2013, 11:19:50 AM »

Quote from: never_retreat on February 25, 2013, 10:35:48 PM

Exactly.

Eventually the whole basement will be finished, I plan on using those heavy rubber backed carpet squares for the rest of the basement.
But I was thinking with this being the gun room I would use some sort of solid floor.
Maybe I should seal it and put down some of that interlocking composite wood flooring substance.

If I was going to put a sealer down on the floor I would have to remove the paint correct?

How old is your house? Depending upon the back filling job your tile may be plugged and you might have to resort to the method that Brimic described.

Also your house may have been built on poorly drained soils and you're not going to get rid of the wetness problem unless you spend a lot of money on more drainage.

K Frame · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2013, 01:31:31 PM »

Whoa, guys...

The fact that the sump pump kicks on when it rains is a good indication that the drainage system he has is working fine. The fact that the sump also has water in it pretty much year around is also a very good indication that he's got a fairly high water table.

In that situation, excavating an additional indoor perimeter drainage channel will likely do one thing...

Cost him a LOT of money and still not solve the efforesence problem.

The effloresence is most likely coming from the moisture from the high water table, and short of busting up the slab I doubt that any amount of perimeter drainage is going to do a thing about it.

brimic · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2013, 01:59:44 PM »

Quote

The effloresence is most likely coming from the moisture from the high water table,

It sounds that way, and its going to be a pretty tough nut to crack if he's on flat land.

MillCreek · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2013, 02:01:07 PM »

That floating subfloor that Larry mentioned is sounding better all the time.

HankB · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2013, 04:48:40 PM »

I was looking for more info on tung oil and ran across this site:

http://www.foundationarmor.com/concrete-sealers/

Quote

Foundation ArmorTM Concrete Sealers STOP:
Water and vapor migration (hydrostatic pressure) up to 100psi
Moisture vapor transmission up to .015 WVT
Alkali attack and efflorescence attack

Just tossing this out for info, not making a recommendation since I know nothing about this beyond what's on the website.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2013, 04:59:50 PM »

Besides the groundwater remediation on the outside that's been mentioned, such as re-routing downspouts, and laying plastic sheets, or extra drainage around where the ground and foundation meet, a sealer will work to prevent efflorescence if it penetrates below the surface, can bind tightly to the grain of the concrete, and it has the ability to pass water molecules, but block salt and keep it from emerging. The osmotic pressures involved aren't really "strong" but unless you remove the water, they never quit. Nothing that simply sits on the surface will work, and will eventually fail.

To really get it to work, you'll probably have to sandblast or mechanically scrub the concrete if it has any sort of paint on it, then give it a really good citric acid etch.

brimic · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2013, 05:47:53 PM »

With stuf like drylockyou are supposed to etch with muriatic first.

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2013, 07:15:07 PM »

I'm pretty sure this is the stuff I saw on the TV show.

http://www.dricore.com/en/Index.aspx

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Author Topic: How to get rid of or cover Efflorescence (Read 6444 times)