Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jocassee on February 13, 2013, 02:06:12 PM
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/this-is-how-the-dhs-seizes-your-guns/
From TTAG, which I don't read, but my brother does and sent it. Please self-moderate your responses.
First of all, forget about them coming to the door. They’ll intercept you on your way home from the Doctor’s office (for example), then one vehicle will come up behind you and two will block your way in front and turn on the flashing lights. They then jump out with ‘real’ assault rifles, point them at you and order your hands up, and exit the vehicle. You, being a law abiding citizen, comply. At gunpoint, they order you to assume the position against your car, handcuffs you and frisk you, and you’re directed to get into the back seat. Then the lead agent gets into the driver seat and drives your car to your driveway. You sit there with cuffed hands behind you – bleeding.
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Didn't read, but there is nothing novel or surprising in your excerpt. Those making honest forecasts understand how that reality may play. A Waco-style raid and stand-off is now the stuff of fantasy.
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/this-is-how-the-dhs-seizes-your-guns/
From TTAG, which I don't read, but my brother does and sent it. Please self-moderate your responses.
Here's my self-moderated response: Nope.
(1) Just how many times will that trick work?
(2) Just how many gun owners are there in the United States?
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Didn't read, but there is nothing novel or surprising in your excerpt. Those making honest forecasts understand how that reality may play. A Waco-style raid and stand-off is now the stuff of fantasy.
Take a look, this is not conjecture but an account from an actual incident. And you are not wrong.
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Here's my self-moderated response: Nope.
(1) Just how many times will that trick work?
(2) Just how many gun owners are there in the United States?
Good points. I don't think this is something they can justify on a regular basis.
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Take a look, this is not conjecture but an account from an actual incident. And you are not wrong.
the account seems selective about some details are there any more?
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the account seems selective about some details are there any more?
There was a little thing at the top that hopefully some more were coming pending OK from lawyer.
All I know is that it didn't happen to me which is good, I started twitching when I read it.
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Mistake #1 is being an FFL and working out of your home.
Don't be an FFL.
I do like that "Henry Bowman" is the first to comment. Which is my only comment I'll offer.
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Mistake #1 is being an FFL and working out of your home.
Don't be an FFL.
I do like that "Henry Bowman" is the first to comment. Which is my only comment I'll offer.
After what happened to the Reese's I will never be an FFL and I would discourage any of my friends from doing so. It ain't worth it.
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There was a little thing at the top that hopefully some more were coming pending OK from lawyer.
All I know is that it didn't happen to me which is good, I started twitching when I read it.
if this is true
"Later, you find out that the affidavit which justified the search warrant is sealed – and you can’t even find out why they searched and seized. A few days later, the sworn affidavit is unsealed, and you find out that the agent lied repeatedly, told half-truths, speculated about possible violations, and related his ‘suspicions’ with no basis in fact – and that the search warrant is nothing more than a gigantic fishing expedition to see what they could find ."
and hes noy waiting for the shoe to drop his disclaimer is gonna have a timer on it
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So force mandatory universal background checks, then harass most of the FFL holders out of existence? End result, extreme inconvenience and cost when transferring a legally private owned gun to a law abiding person.
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My dad just made a good point to me. Part of the problem of "national" police which are not accountable to local population or locally elected officials (like Sheriff or city police chief).
South Africa (where we used to live) had national police and they worked in hand with army.
We would occasionally see license checkpoints with troop carriers and guys in camo with R4s.
Developing nations and 3rd world countries have national police.
DHS is filling this role.
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Honestly, I've seen this before. And more than one member of this board has been through this sort of thing. Jocassee faced trumped up charges for moving an old rifle. vaskidmark had a barrel of trouble for pointing a finger. "But it all worked out in the end!" Yea, well, it's been a long time since being found innocent was the end of your trouble. Your BEST circumstances are a mountain of debt in legal fees for doing nothing wrong. Worst, is being forced into a plea deal, because you are screwed twelve ways to Sunday if you lose against folks significantly better funded and equipped.
I know C&SD will be along to say "details are muddled!", "arbeit macht frei!", "war is peace", etc.
Honestly, is there a single person on this board that would be truly shocked about hearing folks in the ninja gear tearing up some house, because of some flimsy accusation?
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The collector/FFL who got raided:
http://www.adamsguns.com/
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My dad just made a good point to me. Part of the problem of "national" police which are not accountable to local population or locally elected officials (like Sheriff or city police chief).
South Africa (where we used to live) had national police and they worked in hand with army.
We would occasionally see license checkpoints with troop carriers and guys in camo with R4s.
Developing nations and 3rd world countries have national police.
DHS is filling this role.
Very keen observation. Don't take your eye off of that.
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Hmmmm...
-Big 4x4 vehicle capable of pushing others out of the way. ARB brush bars/bumpers etc.
-Run-flat tires.
-Some strategically placed AR 500 plates. Not a full armor job-just basic survivability.
-Command detonated directional mines with hidden switches.
I mean yeah, you're still going to die. The point is just to be capable of breaking contact to offload kids/family if they're with you. Or maybe responding and taking a few with you, or perhaps a second engagement of your choosing.
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Some folks just might get pushed to the point of being proactive. =|
Good thing that I don't know anybody like that :angel:
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My dad just made a good point to me. Part of the problem of "national" police which are not accountable to local population or locally elected officials (like Sheriff or city police chief).
South Africa (where we used to live) had national police and they worked in hand with army.
We would occasionally see license checkpoints with troop carriers and guys in camo with R4s.
Developing nations and 3rd world countries have national police.
DHS is filling this role.
Didn't some politician a while back also advocate for a National Civil Defense Corps, or some such?
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The collector/FFL who got raided:
http://www.adamsguns.com/
Obviously a threat to the country, what with his predilection for old/collectable arms.
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Any such tactic can be used against the jbts by enterprising individuals or small groups.
I worry very little about these things.
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Mistake #1 is being an FFL and working out of your home.
The same level of harassment has happened to brick and mortar FFL's.
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Good points. I don't think this is something they can justify on a regular basis.
No instead they go for the loudest, most vocal. The leaders, the experienced vets training civilians. FFL's, underground "dealers".
That's how it will be done.
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No instead they go for the loudest, most vocal. The leaders, the experienced vets training civilians. FFL's, underground "dealers".
That's how it will be done.
whaT was the name of that guy/company that everyone rallied behind last time? you know the guy who squealed innocent solicited defense cash then went to court to plead guilty/stupid?
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whaT was the name of that guy/company that everyone rallied behind last time? you know the guy who squealed innocent solicited defense cash then went to court to plead guilty/stupid?
Cav Arms. And yes that was a retarded case
But if memory serves they also sat on his inventory for something like a year with no charges. And the charges that were filed weren't much of anything IRRC. I don't have time to do the research ATM
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Cav Arms. And yes that was a retarded case
But if memory serves they also sat on his inventory for something like a year with no charges. And the charges that were filed weren't much of anything IRRC. I don't have time to do the research ATM
they were stupid charges the kind that make you go "he did what?" and after all his noise about innocence he plead guilty.
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This happened to a local gun shop in the Clinton years. They held on to the inventory long enough to bankrupt them. I don't think any charges were ever filed. Their only crime was being very vocal about gun rights, and being located in the middle of an upscale burb, that also wanted them gone. It worked.
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they were stupid charges the kind that make you go "he did what?" and after all his noise about innocence he plead guilty.
Plead guilty or watch your life be utterly destroyed by unaccountable bureaucrats with endless time and funds. I can't really blame anyone who does it.
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Cav Arms. And yes that was a retarded case
But if memory serves they also sat on his inventory for something like a year with no charges. And the charges that were filed weren't much of anything IRRC. I don't have time to do the research ATM
Cav Arms has had some fun in the last decade...
Under Warren Mee's ownership, got spanked by the feds. Mostly because Mee got snagged for some sort of real estate fraud.
With Mee in PMITA fed prison, Cav Arms continues onwards. They get nipped for "manufacturing violations" when an agent determines that if the plastics outsourcing firm they use has 2 halves of a receiver and some duct tape, you can make a half work on its own without a serial number. Manufacturing off premises. (I would argue that the seaming technique they use constitutes at least 20% of the construction process, making two halves combined still less than 80% of a receiver).
Feds didn't like Cav Arms because it was proof that the AR didn't need to be made out of metal, and inspired all sorts of inventive hillbilly AR's with no serial numbers. They hate the modular notion of the AR and that the serialed component is so easily made in a home workshop.
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Plead guilty or watch your life be utterly destroyed by unaccountable bureaucrats with endless time and funds. I can't really blame anyone who does it.
i take it you are unfamiliar with what they got him for? truly amazing
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i take it you are unfamiliar with what they got him for? truly amazing
I was speaking more generally about folks who plea out when they're innocent. But keep on a trollin', I'm sure it brings you joy to imagine how superior you are. ;/
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No instead they go for the loudest, most vocal. The leaders, the experienced vets training civilians. FFL's, underground "dealers".
That's how it will be done.
Again, in the age of the internet how many times can they pull that trick before they pick the wrong guy and the nuttier 3%-ers kick it off? Twice? Three times? Ten?
Once that happens it'll be all over the news and the rest of us saner types, including the politicos and LE on our side, will be literally up in arms. They don't have the manpower to do anything like mass sweeps, especially outside of anti-gun areas.
As my favorite socialist once sang, "He never come back from Copperhead Road."
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Steve Earle's a socialist? But.....He's a Texan. >:D [popcorn]
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Steve Earle's a socialist? But.....He's a Texan. >:D [popcorn]
Big time liberal
Probably actually believes a pistol is the devils right hand.
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Steve Earle's a socialist? But.....He's a Texan. >:D [popcorn]
He's an old school, turn of the century, Woody Guthrie, labor movement-type socialist. Classic American "Red."
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He's an old school, turn of the century, Woody Guthrie, labor movement-type socialist. Classic American "Red."
Which would actually mean he is a fan of firearms. =)
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Which would actually mean he is a fan of firearms. =)
As I recall he is a gun owner and does support the idea that the 2nd was intended as a bulwark against tyranny. Not sure what his detailed views are.