Post by: roo_ster on June 12, 2008, 11:06:15 AM
I have an auto repair question for y'all.
Vehicle
1997
Nissan
Ext Cab Pickup
2WD
2.4L I-4 KA24E engine
5sp manual
Power steering
152K miles
Background
A heater/coolant hose busted away from home. I patched it and limped to mechanic, who replaced hose & re-filled coolant system, among other things. That was a couple days ago.
Current State
Today, I was driving and smelled ethylene glycol. I stopped and saw the upper radiator hose was leaking where it joined the radiator/upper tank. I tried tightening it and realized that the stubby pipe off the top of the radiator had been crushed by the hose clamp. The upper tank is made from some sort of plastic, I suspect so as to prevent thermal expansion cracking.
Well, I clean out the crushed mess and move the hose clamp toward the end of the hose and tighten it down on the remaining 1/2" of stubby plastic pipe. I top off the coolant system and driver it home, with an eye on the temp gauge. I make it home, no problem.
How It Got That Way
My first reaction upon seeing the crushed bits, was to think, "&*%%@^^^ sledgehammer mechanics!" On reflection, I can see that plastic part getting brittle with time and Mr. "We charge $88/hour labor" tightening it down & crunching it inadvertently.
Part Costs, Radiator
Genuine Nissan from Nissan dealer: $524.33
Genuine Nissan from online retailer: $406+shipping
Aftermarket replacement from http://www.carpartswholesale.com/: $104+shipping
http://cpwstore.carpartswholesale.com/catalog/index.php?N=9235+11921&Nr=OR(AND(make:Nissan,model:Pickup,year:1997),AND(universal:1))
My Skill Level
I am not a trained mechanic. To give you an idea of what I am capable of, I have done the following successfully on different vehicles:
- Replace front disk brake pads & repack wheel bearings
- Replace shocks
- Simple body repair
- Change coolant/heater hoses
- Electrical doo-dads (Audi 4000S)
- Change oil & grease fittings
- Various other little things
Here is what I was not successful at:
- Replacing water pump on chevy small block in pickup (fiasco)
- Rear drum brakes (discretion was the better part of valor)
I do own an electronic, indifferently-produced .pdf version of the Nissan shop manual for my pickup.
Options
1. Get it to a mechanic & let them fix it. (Highest cost)
2. Replace radiator myself. (Second highest cost)
3. Find a bit of pipe that fits outside or inside diameter of stubby upper tank pipe and liberally JB Weld it into place and hose clamp the upper radiator hose to that. (Cheapest solution)
Considering I expect to keep the pickup another 2 years, tops, I am inclined to just fix the upper tank stubby pipe in place. My wife is in nursing school and I spend most of my time away from work watching & caring for the kids (2 & 3 YO). This option minimizes cost and time. If I were to go this route, what material would y'all recommend? I am leery of metal because of thermal expansion and reactions with metals already in radiator. PVC can not handle this kind of heat, I think. There must be some plastic/ploymer pipe that can withstand engine heat & coolants.
I think I will not take it to a mechanic, as we have two other autos (1995 Nissan Altima & 2004 Honda Element) to keep us mobile. I highly doubt I will spring for genuine Nissan parts for this fix. I would expect $500 minimum for labor to fix this. Another $100 to dump the coolant in an environmentally happy manner.
Part of radiator that is ate up is the upper-right stubby pipe on top of radiator on to which affixes the upper radiator hose.
Post by: charby on June 12, 2008, 11:12:03 AM
Too bad you don't live in same town as me because I'd do the labor for a couple cold beers and a grilled steak.
Post by: Tallpine on June 12, 2008, 11:15:27 AM
If the hose nipple coming off the radiator is still somewhat in one piece, I would try some sort of inner reinforcement to keep it from being crushed by the hose clamp: a sleeve of some metal/plastic that fits tightly into the nipple.
Make sure you don't restrict the water flow too much!
Post by: K Frame on June 12, 2008, 11:16:18 AM
Generally it's not horrificially difficult, but there are some tricks.
Post by: Nick1911 on June 12, 2008, 11:39:37 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 12, 2008, 11:49:08 AM
Ready-Rad radiator
Part Number 433145
$118.98
Limited lifetime warranty and they can order it for you in-store.
If you can replace the hoses, you can replace the radiator. Just be sure not to "hoss" the new one into place. It should fit without any undue persuasion.
It's usually a retaining strap across the top and maybe a support or two on the sides. Once the hoses are off and the few screws that hold it in place are out, it's a matter of gently lifting out the old unit and replaceing it with the new one.
You might invest in a Haynes or Chiltons manual just incase there are a few tricky things needing addressing.
Brad
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 12, 2008, 11:50:39 AM
2. Call bone yard and see if used, guaranteed one is available.
3. Replace yourself. Will have to drain, remove shroud (fan if not on the shroud), hoses and then the radiatior. Not too hard to do. Most are held in by the top plate or a handfull of screws. Just a bit messy with the coolant but thats about it.
Just use extreme caution when installing the new/used one. They are easy to damage.
Post by: mgdavis on June 12, 2008, 02:08:33 PM
I'd replace it, rather than jury rigging something. It's not all that expensive for the aftermarket radiator, and you won't have to worry about your epoxy job failing at an inconvenient moment.
Post by: Tallpine on June 12, 2008, 03:21:30 PM
Post by: roo_ster on June 12, 2008, 05:13:14 PM
I bet I could jury-rig the existing one, but the time spent doing that would likely rival yanking the old and installing the new radiators. If I were on travel with the pickup, the jury-rig fix would be the #1 option.
I have used CHiltons & Haynes books, before. I was not impressed. A while back I bought the shop manual for my specific year/model on CD-ROM. Fewer actual directions & verbiage, but it has the advantage of actually addressing what I have under the hood. Chiltons/Haynes referred to earlier years' pickups with different engines.
Post by: Parker Dean on June 12, 2008, 09:06:20 PM
Post by: Dannyboy on June 13, 2008, 02:05:38 AM
Post by: JonnyB on June 13, 2008, 05:44:17 AM
Failing that, then yes, buy the after-market radiator and replace it yourself. Save the coolant and reuse it; there's no reason to dispose of it.
jb
Post by: Azrael256 on June 13, 2008, 05:59:52 AM
Quote
If you can replace the hoses, you can replace the radiator.
Not necessarily. I second the suggestion to check out the Haynes or Chilton guide. Radiators are not always just hoses and four bolts. You'll also find that a number of them contain a transmission cooler as well. Since we're talking about a manual, it probably doesn't, but I'd want to be sure before buying the part. You can check pretty easily just by looking, but I'd still buy the shop manual.If the radiator is just a radiator, then yes, it's real easy. If you've managed a brake job, you can handle a radiator. Just don't jab a tool through the core.
Post by: Tallpine on June 13, 2008, 06:49:56 AM
Those cheap Chinese knock-offs do OK as radiators, generally only last a couple of years though. One thing about them that's given problems on every one I've used is the drain plug. The ones I've gotten have not had standard size plugs, nor threads, and also seal with an o-ring. The plugs are plastic with poor thread engagement and I had one actually blow out, stranding me. Usually they just drip enough to be annoying.
Hmmm, this is a reason you might try the jury-rig reinforceing sleeve on your existing radiator ...
Personally, I would try that first. You have nothing to lose except an hour or two of time. You don't even have to drain all the coolant - just enough to replace the top hose.
Post by: Dope on June 13, 2008, 07:39:37 AM
If you replace it with a cheap radiator, a good tip is to cut some cardboard out and place it over both sides of the radiator fins. Tape it on while you install the radiator, then pull it off when you're done. It is EXTREMELY easy to dent/break the fins. They are very soft - you can bend them with your fingers. If they hit any metal part in the engine bay you're gonna potentially ruin your day.
Dope
Post by: cfabe on June 13, 2008, 09:52:22 AM
Post by: ilbob on June 13, 2008, 10:49:41 AM
Post by: Tallpine on June 13, 2008, 11:53:41 AM
I would suggest replacing the radiator and not screwing around trying to rig it up. Yes, you may save money, but Mr. Murphy will see that it fails on you at the most inopportune moment. ....
I dunno - some of my jury rigs have worked better than the original equipment.
Post by: richyoung on June 13, 2008, 12:14:38 PM
Post by: erik the bold on June 13, 2008, 12:34:37 PM
Quote
Another $100 to dump the coolant in an environmentally happy manner
$100
!!?? Around here, any auto parts store, including Wally World will take the used fluid at little ($5) to no cost.
Post by: roo_ster on June 13, 2008, 04:12:17 PM
Didn't anyone at the radiator shop suggest replacing just the plastic tank? The other end and the core are OK aren't they? The end tanks are usually held on with fancy clips and are removable.
Failing that, then yes, buy the after-market radiator and replace it yourself. Save the coolant and reuse it; there's no reason to dispose of it.
jb
Failing that, then yes, buy the after-market radiator and replace it yourself. Save the coolant and reuse it; there's no reason to dispose of it.
jb
The top & bottom taanks are crimped in place. The tanks & core are a unit.
Post by: roo_ster on July 15, 2008, 04:59:01 AM
I ordered both the $105 third-party radiator, upper & lower radiator hoses, and an air filter since they were looking kinda old.
It took me 8 hours, but I managed to remove the air cleaner, its feed pipe, the radiator, and upper & lower radiator hoses and then re-install the new stuff and re-fill with coolant & water.
The original hose clamps looked kinda odd, not like your usual worm-gear hose clamps. So, I went to the Nissan dealer and they had the odd-looking ones in stock.
More precisely, they had the world's most expensive hose clamps and were willing to sell me 4 for $16.
Here is a photo of one of the buggers:
You know, they are quite fetching, if you have a thing for hose clamps: galvanized steel, a bolt with nut, spring steel. They ought to come in a jewelry box.
All kidding aside, I do think they are superior to the run of the mill hose clamp. Not only is build quality pretty nifty, the bolt head stays in place as you crank 'er down.
Anyways, my repair has held for three weeks, so I am going to claim success.
My only regret is not having the geek/hack cred from jury-rigging a repair. That has its own satisfaction.
Post by: Ezekiel on July 15, 2008, 05:21:10 AM
Post by: Nick1911 on July 15, 2008, 05:38:11 AM
On a side note, you can use generic hose clamps on pretty much anything they fit on. correct torque is more important then design.
Post by: Hawkmoon on July 15, 2008, 06:02:52 AM
Post by: Tuco on July 15, 2008, 11:03:15 AM
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Post by: wmenorr67 on July 15, 2008, 07:30:10 PM
Post by: Tuco on July 16, 2008, 05:43:02 AM
Yeah, but don't you know that by bragging on yourself you have just condemned it to failing at the most inconvient time?
The Japanese have pretty much exorcised that tendency out of their cars.
There is a real sense of satisfaction from a big, simple DIY job like radiator replacement.
After a 40 mile test of stop and go, highway speeds, hills and AC (if any) that repair should last.