Anyone have the numbers for Las Vegas shooting?

[T.O.M.]

Was arguing with someone about mass shootings/active shooter situations at work.  She kept pointing out Las Vegas, and how hundreds of people had been shot.  It got me thinking...I don't remember seeing any stats about how many victims had actually been hit by bullets, versus how many of the injured in other ways (trampled, injured while fleeing, etc.).  Wondered if any of you had seen any final numbers.  I've tried searches, but keep coming up with the number of dead, the number of wounded, and (of course) the number of rounds fired and number of firearms recovered.  Anyone see anything?

[never_retreat]

Nope. I have not seen the real shot number. Everything seems to include the stamped injured as well.
Not to say my tin foil is on but, this shooting is still missing a lot of details after how many months?

[Andiron]

Nope. I have not seen the real shot number. Everything seems to include the stamped injured as well.
Not to say my tin foil is on but, this shooting is still missing a lot of details after how many months?

Funny,  with the shooter perfectly fitting the narrative (angry white man!),  this got memory holed faster than if it had been an angry tranny muslim feminist refugee of color.

Curiouser and curiouser..

Not to drift the thread all the way to conspiracy town,  I'd also like to see the numbers.

[RoadKingLarry]

 

I'm kind of on the same wavelength on the LV shooting. It disappeared way too fast.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm kind of on the same wavelength on the LV shooting. It disappeared way too fast.

It disappeared because it didn't fit the narrative. The big push immediately before Las Vegas was universal background checks, as the panacea that was going to keep us all safe. Then along came a guy who had passed multiple background checks, thereby proving that the background checks don't provide any guarantees at all, and the anti-gun folks were left sucking wind.

So the best approach (from their perspective) is to NOT talk about it, let it disappear off the radar, and hope nobody remembers it when they come back to talking about expanded background checks.

[KD5NRH]

Is it bad that when I saw the title, my first thought was "wind shouldn't have been an issue, and really, shooting down into that dense crowd, I doubt he bothered with any holdover?"

[MechAg94]

I thought I heard someone say a number like 250 people shot.  I don't recall where I saw that and there was nothing on the severity of wounds.  With rounds likely bouncing all over, that wouldn't surprise me.  Might just be someone's guess.  

This whole business of no information, video, or other info released really seems to push me toward conspiracy theories.  It may just be the casinos trying to bury it, but I think everyone is still curious and I am amazed nothing has leaked.  

After that shooting and bombing in France, security video was out within a day at least.  

[MechAg94]

Is it bad that when I saw the title, my first thought was "wind shouldn't have been an issue, and really, shooting down into that dense crowd, I doubt he bothered with any holdover?"

Not to me.  My thought was that even with the size of the crowd, at that distance with a bump fire stock I am thinking a good number of his rounds missed the area completely and at best were spraying all over.  I heard one person saying he thought fast semi-auto fire would have been worse and I think he might be right.

[TommyGunn]

I read somewhere in the last few days  that Steve Paddock fired @1100 rounds.   I've forgotten how many wounded/killed but the numbers ought to be findable.

[BobR]

Here is what one hospital says for them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/04/555584905/sheer-number-of-casualties-makes-las-vegas-count-difficult

bob

[Hawkmoon]

The most recent numbers I found were 58 killed and 480 wounded or injured. But I have not seen any breakdown as to how many of the 480 were actually wounded by gunfire compared to how many were injured in the chaos.

[Northwoods]

Here is what one hospital says for them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/04/555584905/sheer-number-of-casualties-makes-las-vegas-count-difficult

bob

On Wednesday, Sunrise Hospital revised the total number of patients it had treated down — from 214 to 200, of whom 16 died and 29 were still in critical condition. Of those, the hospital estimates about 120 had gunshot wounds, but did not release an exact figure.

If you assume 120/200 is representative (and it's probably within +-5%) that's 60% of the injured had a gunshot wound.  Whether that was a direct hit, shrapnel from a fragmented bullet, penetrating or just grazing wounds is unclear.  But if that includes all of the above that would imply ~320 +-20 gunshot victims out of the 500-600-ish total injured/killed.

[T.O.M.]

I had wondered if the break down hadn't happened, or if it simply had not been reported on.  I had guessed that it hadn't been reported on because (a) the press has moved on to the next issue in this 24-hour news cycle where big stories are over within a week or so, or (b) describing how many people hadn't been shot dilutes the message they want the public to hear.  It serves the narrative better if they can say "guy shoots in Vegas and hundreds are injured" as opposed to something like "guy shoots in Vegas, and while hundreds were injured only 20% were actually hit by bullets."

I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy.  Especially when it comes to .gov conspiracy.  Just seen too much ineptitude in .gov over my almost 30 years of working with government people at different levels.  Also, in this day and age where there is a very lucrative market for insiders willing to blow the whistle, I can't imagine .gov being able to buy/threaten silence out of all the people that would need to be suppressed to make such conspiracies successful.  That said, I can believe that the media, and those who play the media game, are willing to alter the perspective on stories to meet a certain goal.  So, if the goal is to garner support for a new assault weapons ban, to get rid of bump stocks, and limit mag capacity, then not reporting on the break-down of injuries based on type of or cause of injury is just another move on the chessboard.

[MechAg94]

Well, there are conspiracies and then there are conspiracies.  The events may have roughly occurred as reported, but I am still a bit surprised there is NOTHING coming out (no pictures, no video, no additional details on the evidence).  The mainstream media might not be interested, but if websites got hold of pictures and video, they would get a LOT of hits and views.  One of the newer video hosting sites could generate a lot of interest by publicizing something like that.  My only thought is that the casinos and LVPD are pretty good and putting a lid on things. 

[Hawkmoon]

I had wondered if the break down hadn't happened, or if it simply had not been reported on.  I had guessed that it hadn't been reported on because (a) the press has moved on to the next issue in this 24-hour news cycle where big stories are over within a week or so, or (b) describing how many people hadn't been shot dilutes the message they want the public to hear.  It serves the narrative better if they can say "guy shoots in Vegas and hundreds are injured" as opposed to something like "guy shoots in Vegas, and while hundreds were injured only 20% were actually hit by bullets."

All part of not fitting the narrative. Now that they can't tout universal background checks as the cure-all, they're going after the "illegal machine gun devices" as the big evil to be eliminated. And to be effective, they need to make bump-fire stocks seem as deadly as possible. If the numbers are at all accurate, it would appear that the shooter -- who was basically shooting fish in a barrel -- fired 1100 rounds, and out of those 1100 rounds he scored under 400 hits -- roughly 33 percent, one-third. Even understanding the distance involved and the fact that bump-fire stocks are not oriented toward accuracy, but volume of fire, it's still difficult to understand how he could have missed with two-thirds of his shots.

But the gun grabbers don't want the populace to hear that. They want bump-fire stocks to be viewed as the equivalent of an M2 machine gun, so they don't want any discussion about how many people DIDN'T get shot, or how many of the injured had sprained ankles rather than gunshot wounds.

It's all in the spin.

[lee n. field]

An admin in one of the gun(ish) groups I follow lives in Las Vegas.  He posted this in a thread:

My friend knows a man contracted to fix bullet holes in casinos 1.5-2 miles down the strip from the shooting.

Another friend knows a man who works at Mandalay Bay who found information that Indicates Stephan Paddock’s gambling profile was still active in the days after the shooting.

Audio Forensics proves multiple shooters.

I’ve spoken to eye witnesses and victims. A few of them swear multiple shooters.

I’m acquainted with one of the men who breached the room. He said that he found it just as the media described, but he believes it was set up.

And thats just a few things. Theres more.

for what it's worth.

[KD5NRH]

If you assume 120/200 is representative (and it's probably within +-5%) that's 60% of the injured had a gunshot wound.  Whether that was a direct hit, shrapnel from a fragmented bullet, penetrating or just grazing wounds is unclear.  But if that includes all of the above that would imply ~320 +-20 gunshot victims out of the 500-600-ish total injured/killed.

I'd really like to see a breakdown in terms of gunshot/other by severity of wounds; seems entirely probable under the circumstances that single bullets may have grazed several people, and it's not hard to imagine numbers being creatively inflated by counting every scratch that might have been a grazing bullet as another GSW.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't think anyone outside of the hospitals has counted individual wounds. The important (maybe) and interesting breakdown would be simply to differentiate between "wounded" (by gunfire) and "injured" (as in twisted ankle, broken leg, skinned knee, or just trampled in the panicky mass exodus).

The same could be said for all previous mass shootings. It's impossible to determine from written reports, in most cases, how many of the injured were actually wounded, as opposed to just "injured."