France's law banning face covering goes into action

[longeyes]

Yes, we all know that Muslims, in whatever part of the islamic spectrum, are synonymous with liberty.  I keep forgetting, perhaps because they give me so much evidence to the contrary on a daily basis.

[vaskidmark]

Isn't it something like a mere 2% that equates to the critical population mass necessary to tip things towards favoring sharia law at least within the muslim community?  And at about 10% that they start advocating for imposing sharia on the rest of the population?

As I understand this tempest in a French teacup it is based on preventing the Islamification of the French culture.  But then these are the folks who refuse to accept foreign words into their language and wind up with some constructions that make the German jawbreaking, gargling stringing together of noun/adjective/adverb look like verbal shorthand.

Personally, other than some cheeses I am of the opinion that French culture died several generations ago.  Even their grapes are American.

stay safe.

[dogmush]

Isn't it something like a mere 2% that equates to the critical population mass necessary to tip things towards favoring sharia law at least within the muslim community?  And at about 10% that they start advocating for imposing sharia on the rest of the population?

I have never heard that. 

Not doubting you, but where do those numbers come from?  I'm interested in how you would even measure that?

[vaskidmark]

I have never heard that. 

Not doubting you, but where do those numbers come from?  I'm interested in how you would even measure that?

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=140473

http://obama-ultimablogspotcom.blogspot.com/2010/08/tipping-point-population-that-is-2.html

http://muslimmatters.org/2007/06/19/tipping-point-how-little-things-can-make-a-big-difference/

http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/07/29/why-muslim-immigration-is-stealth-jihad/

I make no claim that any of these sources is scientifically accurate, let alone rational.  However you asked where the notion comes from and these are but a few examples.

Sorry if your head hurts after perusing any of the writings.

stay safe.

[De Selby]

These are the sorts of theories that demand a Godwin.  Measuring the Percentage of a race and all

[longeyes]

Isn't it something like a mere 2% that equates to the critical population mass necessary to tip things towards favoring sharia law at least within the muslim community?  And at about 10% that they start advocating for imposing sharia on the rest of the population?

As I understand this tempest in a French teacup it is based on preventing the Islamification of the French culture.  But then these are the folks who refuse to accept foreign words into their language and wind up with some constructions that make the German jawbreaking, gargling stringing together of noun/adjective/adverb look like verbal shorthand.

Personally, other than some cheeses I am of the opinion that French culture died several generations ago.  Even their grapes are American.

stay safe.

I'm interested to see you dismiss French culture so easily.  I can't do that, especially when it's likely to be accompanied by British culture and eventually German and Italian as well.

[vaskidmark]

I'm interested to see you dismiss French culture so easily.  I can't do that, especially when it's likely to be accompanied by British culture and eventually German and Italian as well.

OK, the Germans still maintain most of the hard work/quality product stuff, even if they have lost quite a bit of the efficiency and social order stuff.  As for (f)GB and Italy - anything I say would be a greater insult than the reality, which if you think about it is hard to do.  Next thing I know you'll be holding up Spain, Greece, and Ireland as paragons of cultural wonderfulness.  I would agree with you that they used to be, but strongly suggest that they have lost most of what they used to be.  And we here in America are no better than the rest of them, except possibly if you want to split hairs on the degree of spiraling in achieved to date.

Disagreeing with someone's point of view/values is offensive.  There is just no way around that.  Political Correctness seeks to eliminate all offensiveness, which means it seeks to eliminate all disagreement.  THe problem is that I do not agree with the point of view/values that the PC crowd seeks to establish as the sole survivor in the contest of thoughts.

stay safe.

[longeyes]

They aren't what they used to be, those Euros, but we wouldn't have gotten here without them.  You say French culture died several generations ago.  And Muslim culture, which you see no problem replacing French...?

[Pharmacology]

Seriously, longeyes;  do you see France's gov't telling 2,000 women what they can wear as some sort of victory for the light side of the force?

[MicroBalrog]

They aren't what they used to be, those Euros, but we wouldn't have gotten here without them.  You say French culture died several generations ago.  And Muslim culture, which you see no problem replacing French...?

If French culture may only be sustained by violations of religious and personal liberty, then French culture should not be sustained.

[roo_ster]

If French culture may only be sustained by violations of religious and personal liberty, then French culture should not be sustained.

Applied to the general case, we might as well pull the plug on all of humanity.

[longeyes]

For the third time, the issue isn't burqas.  The burqua is just an outward sign of what is really bothering the French.  Do I support religious repression?  No, emphatically.  But as you've guessed I believe Islam militates against personal liberty and individual rights.  Of course this is a threat to the historic liberalism--Gallic-style--of the French culture.  These are two cultures that are quintessentially incompatible, but the French have confused "tolerance" with noble self-extinction.

[Pharmacology]

Hrm, it seems I misinterpreted your previous posts in the thread, in that case.

[longeyes]

If French culture may only be sustained by violations of religious and personal liberty, then French culture should not be sustained.

Are you willing to apply that standard to Islam too? 

[dogmush]

Are you willing to apply that standard to Islam too? 

This is the first good point Longeyes has made this week.

[De Selby]

Are you willing to apply that standard to Islam too? 

That's an easy one - yes.  It's doing fine in many places where it has no force of law whatsoever - apparently that's threatening.

[vaskidmark]

They aren't what they used to be, those Euros, but we wouldn't have gotten here without them.  You say French culture died several generations ago.  And Muslim culture, which you see no problem replacing French...?

Where did you discern that I favored the Mooslums replacing the French in any of the three parts Gaul was divided into?

If I had to choose between the two, with no other options, I'd keep the French.  But I'd hate myself for doing it.

My rant, if you have not yet caught on, is against "diversity" and Political Correctness.  No, I am not a supporter of any concept involving a master race, or even a "better than yours even if it still sucks" race.  But if you come at me telling me I must kowtow to your demands that I actually endorse your behaviors that offend me, or tell me that I cannot moan and gripe about the career politicians that remain in office by passing laws to enforce such notions I will become unpleasant towards you.

stay safe.

[longeyes]

Understood.

But what's going on, de facto, is Muslim hegemony wherever they attain critical mass, with all that implies.  This is not just about theory, it is about practice.

My question--wil you apply that to Muslims?--referred specifically to Micro's statement herewith:

"If French culture may only be sustained by violations of religious and personal liberty, then French culture should not be sustained."

[vaskidmark]

I do not see the anti-burqa law as sustaining French culture, so your question seems to be a non sequiter.

On the other hand I do see the French law as an attempt to prevent Islamists from gaining criticality, and I support that notion.  I just think they are going after the wrong Islamists.

I have not fully developed my notions of how to place the pressure on the patriarchy as opposed to against the individual females.  I just "know" that imposing penalties against those who see whatever penalty the law will bring as being that much less terrifying than what their male masters will do if they do not violate the law is not the way to address the root problem(s).

stay safe.

[longeyes]

The specific law is a questionable and ill-targeted attempt to address much deeper anxieties about cultural conflict and existential jeopardy (as I keep saying).

Occupying streets illegally for prayer services is a bigger problem--and the French know this.  They also know that car-burning is important.  What they don't know is how to put the genie--wasn't he a Muslim by the way?--back into the bottle?

[Pharmacology]

Heh, what I'm wondering is this, longeyes:

What solution to this muslim expansion and encroachment can there be?  Are their numbers even growing, or is the population staying the same and merely spreading?
What solution is there other than exile or genocide?   Force them to be muslims in private only?

They are humans and deserve liberty.

[Jamisjockey]

Liberty is a two way street. You can't espouse it out of one side of your mouth, and then applaud its destruction.  The Frogs are dead ass wrong on this one.

[longeyes]

This is the first good point Longeyes has made this week.

I'm positively aglow with that vote of confidence.

[longeyes]

This is not about Being Muslim.  It's about coercive and repressive actions done in the name of Islam.  Actions that restrict the freedom of others. 

The French can't tell the Mohammedan what to wear, but they can tell him/her that they must fit into the legal ambit of French society--at least they can until they swarmed.

What's the answer, Pharmacology?  I know what some Europeans think about where things are going there.   

[longeyes]

That's an easy one - yes.  It's doing fine in many places where it has no force of law whatsoever - apparently that's threatening.

What is "doing fine?"  Islam without the bothersome Infidel?  Islam all by its lonesome and Islam in small cloistered enclaves may be doing fine, but when it becomes a serious player in a modern polity the problems immediately arise.