Asset Forfiture & Thug Selfies

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

My goal would be to keep and or get my money back. I think a plan that would safeguard that would be better than posturing. This is one of those moments when having a lawyer makes real sense. I would call them and even if you can't get to em leave a detailed message time place amounts and names of cops would work 2 ways. It would discourage them from taking it and go a long way towards establishing a record of your side of the events. It would also go a ways towards letting them know you are not gonna roll over for em. I think it's interesting that only 1/6 of folks challenge the seizures.  But most interesting that of the ones who do 41% get their cash back.
I find the seizures of homes to be much more questionable in many cases. I know fir a while they were taking cars from guys patronizing prostitutes. That seems to have faded.
If you really wanna pain in the butt let fish and game seize your stuff.


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[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

The proper response to illegal seizures should be 4-5× in punitive damages- paid for out of the police department's pension fund or by the police union itself. 
Police have to learn that stupid hurts.

.

A proper response would be sue them personally. Take their house, savings, car, real property, kids college funds etc....  Along with with what you listed above.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Why do you think only 1 in 6 try to get their cash back? Didn't one of the guys involved in thr have a story about losing a pile of cash that way??


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[dogmush]

Why do you think only 1 in 6 try to get their cash back? Didn't one of the guys involved in thr have a story about losing a pile of cash that way??

Lawyer's fees.  Intimidation.  $1000 retainer and $200/hour to fight unlimited lawyers to get $2000 cash back for a lot of it.
Actually believe those dumb ass releases they bully you into signing for some of it.
Some of it actually is ill gotten cash.
Probably some other things I haven't thought of.

I understand the legal and tactical ramifications of fighting the police, but I can't think of a moral reason not to track the officer that stole your honest money down and get it (or like value) back from him.

[roo_ster]

Why do you think only 1 in 6 try to get their cash back? Didn't one of the guys involved in thr have a story about losing a pile of cash that way??
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1. For many items/amounts of cash the cost of fighting even a winning battle exceeds the value of the item stolen by the boys in blue.  I think that the item/amount siezed plus lawyer fees ought to be the remuneration.

2. Impossible to prove ownership of some items/cash.  Not everyone uses banks.  My grandfolks didn't.  Kept large amounts of cash hidden on their property.

3. Impossible to prove ownership due to criminally derived income.

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My goal would be to keep and or get my money back. I think a plan that would safeguard that would be better than posturing. This is one of those moments when having a lawyer makes real sense. I would call them and even if you can't get to em leave a detailed message time place amounts and names of cops would work 2 ways. It would discourage them from taking it and go a long way towards establishing a record of your side of the events. It would also go a ways towards letting them know you are not gonna roll over for em. I think it's interesting that only 1/6 of folks challenge the seizures.  But most interesting that of the ones who do 41% get their cash back.
I find the seizures of homes to be much more questionable in many cases. I know fir a while they were taking cars from guys patronizing prostitutes. That seems to have faded.
If you really wanna pain in the butt let fish and game seize your stuff.


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Agreed.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

A situation like this dash cam or cell phone recording could be invaluable. The dogs sniffing the money is a gimme. Especially big bills most if not all of it has some coke on it
  And if you win they pay lawyer should be automatic

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[brimic]

1 out of 6 probably have had enough cash stolen from them to care about hiring an attorney to recover it. They simply take their lumps and walk away with a bitter hatred of the police- sonething the police can ill afford these days.
I wonder how many people here gave carried a few thousand in cash to a gun shop or show on several occasions (raises hand)?

Its not just cash, its also guns... imagine being pulled over and having your guns seized because the cop has monetary incentives to do so. Some people here no doubt take  a load of guns to the range that are worth more than their vehicle. There was a case local to me  where a 20-something had a $1000 or so in pistols stolen by the police- the reason? The police felt that the car the 'kid' drove (a high end mercedes) didn't fit the 'kid's' perceived socioeconomic profile. Unbeknownst to the cops (like they woukd care anyway, they perceived a 'punk' that drove a car that was worth 2 years of their salary) the man was part iwner in a very successful family construction business.

[brimic]

I might have strong opinions about this, but I place cops who abuse their trust and authority to harm citizens at about the same level as priests who have gotten away with pedophilia.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Where'd they "steal" the young mans guns?


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[brimic]

Where'd they "steal" the young mans guns?


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From the trunk of his car, where they were properly stored.
And yes, it is theft, in fact its armed robbery.

[Balog]

Did Rich Lucibella ever get his money back after it got stolen by the cops?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

That's the one I mentioned earlier. I don't believe he did. And iirc it was real money. More than 20 k.


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[Balog]

Did Rich Lucibella ever get his money back after it got stolen by the cops?

Apparently I have answered my own question and forgotten about it.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=8491.0;wap2

[fifth_column]

An interesting article I ran across about asset seizure in Philadelphia:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2014/08/philadelphias-forfeiture-machine-64.html

From 2002 through 2012, law enforcement in Philadelphia seized more than 1,000 homes, 3,200 vehicles and $44 million in cash, according to data obtained by the Institute for Justice through an open records request.

Those assets provided more than $64 million in revenue to the Philadelphia DA’s office, because Pennsylvania law allows local law enforcement to keep the proceeds from forfeited property after it is seized and resold.

Property can be seized by police without requiring a conviction — or even a criminal charge, in some cases — and the proceeds have padded the Philadelphia District Attorney’s bottom line by 20 percent during the past decade.

(I added the emphasis above)

The fact that citizens need to protect themselves during every police encounter is indicative of a system gone wrong.  Everyone should be recording every interaction with police, via voice at minimum, and preferably with video.

[Ben]

Graded by state.  https://www.ij.org/asset-forfeiture-report-florida


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Thanks for that link!

[Boomhauer]

Here's *expletive deleted*ed up...Desert Snow/Black Asphalt employees were impersonating LEOs and  pulling people over in Oklahoma and seizing their stuff.

I have only one response to this- Rule .303.

http://kfor.com/2013/07/29/aclu-drug-task-force-trainers-impersonating-officers/

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Here's *expletive deleted*ed up...Desert Snow/Black Asphalt employees were impersonating LEOs and  pulling people over in Oklahoma and seizing their stuff.

I have only one response to this- Rule .303.

http://kfor.com/2013/07/29/aclu-drug-task-force-trainers-impersonating-officers/

If any event needs a response that is not going through legal channels, it's this. This is aggravated robbery.

[Tallpine]

Once in a while they may come across somebody they shouldn't have fokked with 

[MicroBalrog]

The only way to avoid this happening in the long run is to work politically and become involved in the efforts to limit asset forfeiture.

...but that's hard work.

[Hawkmoon]

Even when not banned, isn't civil asset forfeiture (aka cops robbing people) mostly practiced in the South, and in known corrupt shtholes like Chicago/Philly/NJ etc?

Nope, not just the south. I'm in the northeast. It's here, too. I know for a fact that the police department in the adjacent town has a shiny yellow Corvette for their D.A.R.E. officer to tool around in by virtue of asset forfeiture.

What it is, is theft under color of law. I can't believe that any court in the country allows it, but ... they do. No probable cause. No due process. No defense. Just ... hand it over. Just yesterday or the day before I read about a guy whose house was taken away because the cops caught his son with some marijuana and charged the kid with dealing. And, because the kid still lived with Mommy and Daddy, that meant the house was a dealer house and thus forfeit. They didn't even give the people a chance to move out -- they guy came home from work one day to find the locks had been changed.

And the police wonder why we don't respect them ...

[brimic]

Nope, not just the south. I'm in the northeast. It's here, too. I know for a fact that the police department in the adjacent town has a shiny yellow Corvette for their D.A.R.E. officer to tool around in by virtue of asset forfeiture.

What it is, is theft under color of law. I can't believe that any court in the country allows it, but ... they do. No probable cause. No due process. No defense. Just ... hand it over. Just yesterday or the day before I read about a guy whose house was taken away because the cops caught his son with some marijuana and charged the kid with dealing. And, because the kid still lived with Mommy and Daddy, that meant the house was a dealer house and thus forfeit. They didn't even give the people a chance to move out -- they guy came home from work one day to find the locks had been changed.

And the police wonder why we don't respect them ...

Step #1: use universal key (sledgehammer) to enter house to see if weapons cache was temoved from premises.
Step #2: even talking about this step will get me banned. No worries, it'll be on the national news, heck they'll probably still be writing books about it decades later.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You can lose a rental property if your tenant is dealing.


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[brimic]

You can lose a rental property if your tenant is dealing.


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And its darned near impossible to kick them out of your property if you find out that they are.
There is a reason why my FIL sold all of his rental properties a few years ago. Certain groups of people are really good at gaming tenant protection laws.

[Tallpine]

We need to end the War On [people using some] Drugs.

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And its darned near impossible to kick them out of your property if you find out that they are.
There is a reason why my FIL sold all of his rental properties a few years ago. Certain groups of people are really good at gaming tenant protection laws.

Drug users aren't a protected class. You can legally discriminate if lease is worded right. I tossed a law student whose daddy was a land shark and dc council,member. I put him out in the middle of the night and when he called cops and daddy they all had to go away. If you want the right legal verbiage contact oxford house for one of their leases. The key is making drug use a violation in the lease subject to immediate eviction.


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