Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on July 05, 2007, 08:43:40 AM
Which is best? Which do you own? What has gone wrong with it?
As you may have noticed, I constantly lust after every vehicle I see. It's a problem. A real problem.
Post by: Tallpine on July 05, 2007, 09:08:35 AM
Now your current car is going to get jealous. It will probably break down just to get some attention. Or it might blow a front tire and try to kill you.
Post by: BobCat on July 05, 2007, 10:07:12 AM
My '95 Dodge / Cummins has just over 359k miles on it and has been very reliable. Miles per gallon seems to be increasing slightly - from about 20-21 when new, to 21-22 now - people tell me it is getting broken in.
Please post if you find one you like, and tell why you like it.
There is a Forum for them at http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/
Regards,
Andrew
Post by: Gewehr98 on July 05, 2007, 10:30:28 AM
I had a friend in my hometown who shoehorned a Caterpiller diesel into a late 1970's Ford F-150 pickup. He didn't even bother making it a 4wd, just oodles of torque to a locker rear end.
I wouldn't mind either a Caterpillar or Cummins in an older 3/4 ton pickup, myself.
Then again, I'd love to find one of those vintage VW Rabbit diesel pickups.
Post by: Tallpine on July 05, 2007, 11:00:19 AM
Quote
I had a friend in my hometown who shoehorned a Caterpiller diesel into a late 1970's Ford F-150 pickup.
Yeah, I had a buddy who bought a mid-seventies Ford 3/4 ton with a V-6 GMC diesel retrofitted into it. I dunno what the engine model was, but it looked just like one of those big old V-6 gas blocks that they used to put in pickups and trucks, only with different heads, manifold, etc.
It was a real low-rider on the front end with all that extra weight. Plus it sounded and smoked like an 18-wheeler.
But I don't think the 4-speed pickup transmission was quite up to the job.
Post by: Firethorn on July 05, 2007, 11:44:40 AM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on July 05, 2007, 11:47:42 AM
Post by: drewtam on July 05, 2007, 01:55:51 PM
Now that Daimler-Benz has severed its relationship with Chrysler, I suppose the Cummins Turbo Diesels will be available in quantity for their trucks again.
I had a friend in my hometown who shoehorned a Caterpiller diesel into a late 1970's Ford F-150 pickup. He didn't even bother making it a 4wd, just oodles of torque to a locker rear end.
I hear the same thing about Chrysler sticking with Cummins.I had a friend in my hometown who shoehorned a Caterpiller diesel into a late 1970's Ford F-150 pickup. He didn't even bother making it a 4wd, just oodles of torque to a locker rear end.
What Cat engine did he use?
Drew
Post by: Brad Johnson on July 06, 2007, 11:44:33 AM
First gen Ford 6.9L would go about forever. It isn't uncommon to hear about one with more than 300K on the clock. They lived so long because they were laughably understressed (and horrifyingly underpowered).
The in-between 7.3L IHI-turbocharged diesels should probably be avoided unless you are into oddball stuff.
The 7.3L Powerstroke is a proven commodity - strong and reliable. Gale Banks made his name in the diesel market with his famous no-smoke 700+ lb-ft torque PowerPak kits for them. Depending on the year, the rest of the powertrain may be a little soft around it. Early transmissions had a nasty habit of failing under all that twist, but there are people who specialize in making them bulletproof for a reasonable amount. Same with u-joints.
The 6.0L had problems early on but was okay after they got the issues lined out.
I understand the new 6.4L sequentially turbo'd version is having some issues, as well as being a bit on the thirsty side.
DODGE
Whether the early mechanically injected or later electronically injected versions, the Cummins engines are about as bulletproof as it gets.
On early diesels that retained the old body style, the powertrains were rock-solid for they were, after all, based on the three-decade-old PowerWagon chassis that was first developed for military use. The bodies, however, were rust spots and rattles waiting to happen. If you got the switches and controls to stay in place - much less actually work - for more than a few hours at a time, count yourself lucky.
The first gen big-rig styled bodies were a little better with the rust and rattles, but controls are still an issue. The second gen bodies were a little better, though they had some problems with tranny synchros in the 5-speeds.
The chassis and controls just prior to the latest redesign seem to be holding up well. My brother has one and it hasn't laid down yet.
Don't know a darn thing about the newest ones.
CHEVROLET
Not very familiar with the first Chevy non-turbo diesels, although I understand that many a mechanic made a decent living swapping them out for 454's.
The in-betweener turbo diesel was a bit of a conundrum. I don't recall anyone having much problem with thme, but then it seems neither were they all that popular. To me they made too many strange mechanical noises that were not "diesel-y", always sounding like they were on the verge of coming apart.
The latest engine seems to be a hoss. My brother has several friends with them and they all like them. Plus, they don't sound quite as strange any more. In fact, they are almost too quiet, not sounding much like a diesel at all.
Brad
p.s. - You could always get a used up diesel Rabbit pickup. I hear they can be had pretty cheap...
Post by: Sergeant Bob on July 06, 2007, 12:18:50 PM
Post by: Tallpine on July 06, 2007, 12:50:03 PM
I have a neighbor down the road with one of the newer Dodge Cummins and he has replaced the electronic injection pump a couple times, at about $2K each
I still wish they would put a small diesel in a full size pickup. Maybe a 4-cyl that would get 30-40mpg. Not everybody needs to go 70mph up a mountain pass with 15,000 lbs in tow.
Post by: bedlamite on July 07, 2007, 08:56:11 AM
I still wish they would put a small diesel in a full size pickup. Maybe a 4-cyl that would get 30-40mpg. Not everybody needs to go 70mph up a mountain pass with 15,000 lbs in tow.
I've been waiting for the same thing, a 3L V6 turbo with around 200hp and 300+ft-lbs, and it looks like they might just do it.
Post by: Tallpine on July 08, 2007, 06:09:54 AM
I dunno why it would have to be a V-6 diesel...? The Dodge Cummins is the strongest pickup diesel out there and it is only 6 cyl inline. Why not a downsized version, 4 cyl inline?
And what about putting a small diesel in a 3/4 ton - why limit it to just a half-ton
The small block 350 has been pulling 3/4 T pickups around for decades. Heck, I think the best light truck engine Chevy/GMC ever made was the old 292 I-6
Post by: onions! on July 08, 2007, 06:23:32 AM
I dunno why it would have to be a V-6 diesel...? The Dodge Cummins is the strongest pickup diesel out there and it is only 6 cyl inline. Why not a downsized version, 4 cyl inline?
If you value both your sanity & want to keep the fillings in your head don't even think about a 4BT Cummins in a pick up.
I think the suicide rate among Frito Lay route drivers went up something like a baziliion percent when the tried it.
Keep in mind something else.A 4.0l,4 cyl. turbo diesel weighs as much or more than a v-8 gas big block.There are suspension,brake,crash impact,& handling characteristics to work out.Nothing insurmountable I'm sure.It isn't,however,as easy as doing it in the backyard for the O.E.M.s.
Post by: bedlamite on July 08, 2007, 08:40:11 AM
Post by: Firethorn on July 08, 2007, 09:14:02 AM
A V-6 would be much lighter and smaller than an inline 6 for the same output, and a 4 cyl will likely shake the truck apart even with a balancer.
I don't know about that, the europeans manage to build 4 cylinder diesels to stuff into cars that don't shake the car apart, indeed, you have to look at the flashing(IE 'TDI' sign)/fuel door to figure out that it's a diesel while it's running.
Golf review, many models had a 4 cylinder diesel engine.
Post by: bedlamite on July 08, 2007, 09:28:35 AM
I don't know about that, the europeans manage to build 4 cylinder diesels to stuff into cars that don't shake the car apart at half the power we're talking about.
FTFY
An even fire 60 degree V6 is simply a much smoother engine.
http://www.epi-eng.com/ET-PistonExcit.htm
Post by: French G. on July 09, 2007, 07:08:33 PM
Post by: Firethorn on July 10, 2007, 08:45:58 AM
An even fire 60 degree V6 is simply a much smoother engine.
Good point. I did find some links for >200 hp 4 cylinder diesels, but they were all tractor/fixed mount engines. I'm sure it could be done, but might be more effort material than simply trading up to an engine with more cylinders.
Looking at the link, I'd almost like to see a V8 - less than half the variance over the 4cylinder, a third less than even a V6.
Of course, if you want smoooth, A 12 cylinder is your engine of choice.
Post by: Bogie on July 10, 2007, 09:25:37 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on July 10, 2007, 09:27:38 AM
Post by: onions! on July 10, 2007, 11:47:19 AM
I'm thinking that my next vehicle is going to be a Sprinter. Five cyl, inline, and a monster van body. With over 20mpg.
Just a thought.
Might want to check & see how much alternators,starters,& brakes cost first.Oh,& if you're feeling particularly sporty check & see how much a tranny costs.
Just a thought.
Post by: Tallpine on July 10, 2007, 12:22:12 PM
Quote
I did find some links for >200 hp 4 cylinder diesels, but they were all tractor/fixed mount engines.
I'm not sure you would need that much horsepower for a pickup. Diesels have more torque, which is really what makes things move.
Though you would probably need an 8 speed transmission (or 2-speed rear axle) to keep the rpm down at hiway speeds, and most folks wouldn't want to deal with that.
Post by: Bogie on July 10, 2007, 12:22:22 PM
What I'd _really_ like to see is them take that engine, and stuff it in a Dakota-sized pickup.
Post by: bedlamite on July 10, 2007, 01:25:44 PM
I'm a big fan of junkyards.
What I'd _really_ like to see is them take that engine, and stuff it in a Dakota-sized pickup.
What I'd _really_ like to see is them take that engine, and stuff it in a Dakota-sized pickup.
+1 on the boneyards
It's not going to happen now, but Daimler Chrysler should have done that years ago with the Mercedes E320 CDI, I would have bought one even though I despise Chrysler products. Also, Jeep is doing us no favors by staying so far behind in terms of both power and fuel efficiency with the 3.0 CRD.
Of course, if you want smoooth, A 12 cylinder is your engine of choice.
Yeah, a Ferrari diesel!
small displacement with lots of cylinders has it's own problems with efficiency, complexity, weight, and cost.
Post by: onions! on July 10, 2007, 01:38:47 PM
IIRC,there is a kit to put the older(180-220hp-400lb ft) 4BD1-T(Isuzu) in front of a 4l80e trans in a GM truck.
Post by: Firethorn on July 10, 2007, 02:43:49 PM
If you handy guys want a project then why not install a 4 cyl Isuzu or Mitsubishi truck diesel into a pick-up.The engines are near bulletproof,have dealer support,& get suprising mileage out of 4-5 liters.Pretty smooth too.The 2001 GMC W-4500 that I occasionally drive uses a 4HE1 turbo diesel &,w/a 14ft box will get low-mid teens @ 65 on the highway.Picture an eight foot wide ten foot tall 12,000lb brick through the air.
IIRC,there is a kit to put the older(180-220hp-400lb ft) 4BD1-T(Isuzu) in front of a 4l80e trans in a GM truck.
IIRC,there is a kit to put the older(180-220hp-400lb ft) 4BD1-T(Isuzu) in front of a 4l80e trans in a GM truck.
I'm not handy enough, unfortuantly.
Yeah, a Ferrari diesel! small displacement with lots of cylinders has it's own problems with efficiency, complexity, weight, and cost.
small displacement with lots of cylinders has it's own problems with efficiency, complexity, weight, and cost.Well, from what I've seen, for efficiency you generally want as few cylinders as you can get away with. Lacking Ubermaterial for the shafts and such, single cylinders are limited to pretty small jobs where you can overstrength the shafts to a large degree rather trivially. Or at least have a relatively huge mass in rotation to keep stuff even. As you get larger though, relative strengths get smaller, it takes more material to do things, and you end up just accepting the complexity and efficiency penalties to put more cylinders in.
A high torque(not necessarily 200hp) 4 cylinder engine with a 5 or 6 speed transmission should be able to propel a light truck through most anything somebody who isn't looking to pull heavy trailors will want it to do. While getting good fuel mileage. Might even beat many of the hybrids, at least on the highway.
Post by: Tallpine on July 10, 2007, 05:16:59 PM
I need to have a vehicle that is able to pull horse/stock and equipment trailers, but I don't necessarily need to pull them very far or fast. And there's just not the long hills around here like in Colorado. It may bug the guy behind me if I have to gear down on the grades, but I can still get there